Dana 30 and 35 configurations

[StG58]

Got a little off topic in another thread about Dana 30 axles and thought that it might be better to start a new thread about setting up Dana 30 and Dana 35 axles for my SE.

@Jerry Bransford was kind enough to provide me with some links to Revolution axles for the Dana 35. After thinking about it for a few minutes and exploring the links he provided I came to a realization. Jerry said some things that made really good sense to me. What he said coupled with the fact that the Wife is probably not going to be driving the TJ much, if at all, made me reexamine a Detroit Locker and 30 spline Revolution axles in my SE. After all, she has her own JKU now and will be wheeling that, not the TJ.

So, here goes. I'm now thinking of a lunchbox and Revolution axles in the Dana 30 up front. 30 spline Revolution axles and a Detroit in the rear. I can do all that when I plug the 4.88 gears in and be set to go. I've had a Detroit before, and that is one solid and reliable locker. I've heard that a lunch box in the front is not a bad way to go. The only other addition to this fiasco would be putting on one of @mrblaine's 15" BB kits when I'm doing the Dana 30 in front.

The SE is currently running open diffs and 4.10 / 4.11 gears with 31" tires. I might go to 33x12.50's in about 40 - 50,000 miles when these wear out, but who knows. The additional height may be an issue sometimes. 1" = for the tires and a 1 -1/4" body lift for a total of 2 to 2-1/2" of additional lift from where I'm at now.

What am I missing here? What else makes sense to do at the same time?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

That looks like a solid plan as is. For a front lunchbox, it'd be hard to beat the Aussie. But if an extra $100 is no big deal, the No-Slip locker from Powertrax would also be a good choice. The only really readily apparent difference is the No-Slip is pretty much undetectable/silent on the street where the Aussie will click (ratchet) through turns when you're in 2wd. I installed the No-Slip into the front of my previous TJ and couldn't even tell it was there in 2wd. Offroad when in 4x4 the No-Slip and Aussie work identically.

 

[Rob5589]

Sounds solid. Like Jerry said, the No Slip works awesome and is not noticed in 2wd. I ran them frt and rear in my past XJ with 33's and they were 100%. Couple Rubicon runs as well as several other hard core runs without a problem. I was running the 8.25 with 29 spline aftermarket axles in rear but totally stock 30 in frt other than the No Slip and 4.56's.

The one thing I would suggest is 5.13's over the 4.88 if you go to 33's. Gotta give the little 4 all the help you can.

 

[Chris]

I don't think he's going to do 33s on the 4 banger. I could be wrong, but I believe he said that at some point.

 

[Rob5589]

Yea, he just said "might" when his current tires are done.

 

[Chris]

Yea, he just said "might" when his current tires are done.

Missed that part! I stand corrected.

You're a brave man @StG58!

 

[StG58]

Sounds solid. Like Jerry said, the No Slip works awesome and is not noticed in 2wd. I ran them frt and rear in my past XJ with 33's and they were 100%. Couple Rubicon runs as well as several other hard core runs without a problem. I was running the 8.25 with 29 spline aftermarket axles in rear but totally stock 30 in frt other than the No Slip and 4.56's.

The one thing I would suggest is 5.13's over the 4.88 if you go to 33's. Gotta give the little 4 all the help you can.

Let me do the calculations on 5.13's and 33'S to see where it lands. I do need to crawl more than scoot down the highway. How's that work in low range?

I'll check out the Powertrax, $100 is $100, but it would be nice to not ratchet my way through life.

Missed that part! I stand corrected.

You're a brave man @StG58!

...or foolhardy. A person I trusted once told me "the proportion of balls you display is usually the inverse of the brains you display".

I work swing, so I miss these conversations at times. Sorry for the delay in responding.

 

[Rob5589]

www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html You can see all ratios including the T/C with this calculator.

 

[Chris]

..or foolhardy. A person I trusted once told me "the proportion of balls you display is usually the inverse of the brains you display".

I work swing, so I miss these conversations at times. Sorry for the delay in responding.

In my mind I think off 33" tires on a 4 banger, and I'm thinking man, that's going to be a dog (especially on the highway).

Then again, I could be totally wrong. Maybe @Rob5589 knows for sure?

 

[Rob5589]

I

In my mind I think off 33" tires on a 4 banger, and I'm thinking man, that's going to be a dog (especially on the highway).

Then again, I could be totally wrong. Maybe @Rob5589 knows for sure?

Haha, nope! All I do know is that my 2.4/3.73/6spd/31x10.50 combo is less than stellar, not terrible but, could definitely use more gearing. I also do not daily drive or commute in it. Any of my longer trips are to go hunting so I am in no rush. Loooong trips like to Idaho, I flat tow it. The trips I have taken have not been horrible, however, even when loaded down with all my gear. If I were to go with a 33, I would stay with a narrow version (10.50) to keep the weight down.

 

[RaymondT]

In my mind I think off 33" tires on a 4 banger, and I'm thinking man, that's going to be a dog (especially on the highway).

Then again, I could be totally wrong. Maybe @Rob5589 knows for sure?

The 4-cyl is a bit weird. It's actually quite capable zipping around town and off-road. 1st and 2nd gear with stock tires and ratio and it seems to hold it's own. Once you progressively go up into 3rd, 4th, and 5th, the spunk rapidly dies. Add any grades or headwind and you have to work the throttle hard. I find 55mph/90kmh to be it's happy spot - 2400rpm.

The problem with 33's (& correct ratio) is weight. Nobody looking to spend the coin to pursue this is going to be happy with some all-season skinny rubber on lightweight wheels. So now you have combo's with weight and circumference that would be normally be found on a 3/4t pickup. Add this flywheel effect to the wind drag and you'll feel it as you row through the gears. I live in a mountainous area and use the Jeep as a daily driver with plenty of highway miles so it makes sense to keep it stock. And by stock, I mean the factory Grizzly mags and 225/75R15's (29") which are technically an upsize option. Stock is really 205/75R15 according to the door jamb sticker.

 

[StG58]

www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html You can see all ratios including the T/C with this calculator.

Thanks for the link, @Rob5589, I have a spreadsheet that does the same thing, essentially, that I've played with before getting my 31x10.50's. I'll run the number through the grimmjeeper's form and the spreadsheet to compare.

In my mind I think off 33" tires on a 4 banger, and I'm thinking man, that's going to be a dog (especially on the highway).

Then again, I could be totally wrong. Maybe @Rob5589 knows for sure?

You're not wrong there @Chris, the current 4.10's and 31's are just at the ragged edge of being acceptable. They're usable around town, just barely not enough gear off road and downright fly on the highway. Weight is the killer. When it's just me, a full tank of gas and the two grandsons in the SE, it really smokes down the highway. Add in camping gear and you're down into third gear a lot to keep up with traffic on the hills. The SE is very sensitive to weight.

The biggest consideration for me is to keep the rig small and light. I have no expectations that it will ever perform more than adequately on any highway. I already hang in the right lane all the time anyway, just because going faster than about 65 - 70 mph just seems silly in a TJ.

The big thing I need to examine is fitting those tires under the TJ. With the current springs and shocks, the 31's get full stuff and full droop on the stock length bump stops. (not disconnected!) Lots of clearance everywhere, except on the lower control arms in front at full steering lock. That's easy to fix with new wheels or the current wheels and 1/2" spacers. Going to 32x11.50's wouldn't require any changes other than possibly a small increase in bump stop length. Going to 33x12.50's just puts me in a whole different ball park. The 32's aren't particularly common, the 33's are very common. Lots of choices to be made here. Like any system, one effects the others.

 

[StG58]

The 4-cyl is a bit weird. It's actually quite capable zipping around town and off-road. 1st and 2nd gear with stock tires and ratio and it seems to hold it's own. Once you progressively go up into 3rd, 4th, and 5th, the spunk rapidly dies. Add any grades or headwind and you have to work the throttle hard. I find 55mph/90kmh to be it's happy spot - 2400rpm.

The problem with 33's (& correct ratio) is weight. Nobody looking to spend the coin to pursue this is going to be happy with some all-season skinny rubber on lightweight wheels. So now you have combo's with weight and circumference that would be normally be found on a 3/4t pickup. Add this flywheel effect to the wind drag and you'll feel it as you row through the gears. I live in a mountainous area and use the Jeep as a daily driver with plenty of highway miles so it makes sense to keep it stock. And by stock, I mean the factory Grizzly mags and 225/75R15's (29") which are technically an upsize option. Stock is really 205/75R15 according to the door jamb sticker.

Exactly. The only difference is I run my four between 2500 and 3200 rpm. I use my Grizzly mags and 215/75R15 tires as my baseline. Ran those for a year and a half, and know just how it performs both on and off road. Most of the time it worked well, except when it was loaded down for an extended road trip. With the 31's and 4.56 gears it pencils out to just a bit less gear than the base line. 31's and 4.88's are just a bit more gear than base line. I'm in no rush to go with a bigger tire, but I sure don't want to not have enough gear if I get stupid and decide to. I still have to look at the 5.13's and see where that puts me on 31" tires. If it isn't extreme, that may be the way I go. Otherwise it's going to be 4.88's and 31's. (and my 1-1/2" of lift.)

 

[Rob5589]

The SE is very sensitive to weight.

Very true. If I load mine up with the entire fam, 2 adults, 4 and 10 y.o., I can tell the difference. 33's would definitely need some Dana 35 love too, as in alloy axles and new innards of some configuration, to feel confident going back in the woods.

4.88 and a 31, which is actually closer to 30-30.5, would be perfect, 65mph/2950 rpm. 4Lo would be great too, less worry about stalling while climbing gnarly stuff. 5.13 would be closer to 3100 with same tire. Still not unreasonable with the 4 cyl.

 

[StG58]

The SE is very sensitive to weight.

Very true. If I load mine up with the entire fam, 2 adults, 4 and 10 y.o., I can tell the difference. 33's would definitely need some Dana 35 love too, as in alloy axles and new innards of some configuration, to feel confident going back in the woods.

4.88 and a 31, which is actually closer to 30-30.5, would be perfect, 65mph/2950 rpm. 4Lo would be great too, less worry about stalling while climbing gnarly stuff. 5.13 would be closer to 3100 with same tire. Still not unreasonable with the 4 cyl.

33's would definitely need some Dana 35 love too, as in alloy axles and new innards of some configuration, to feel confident going back in the woods.

Which is where the where the whole conversation started...

So, all things considered, my current 31's, Revolution 4.88's fore and aft, Revolution axles on both ends, a Powertrax in front and a Detroit in back, a 15" BB kit in front with new unit bearings, rebuild the rear drum brakes while the axle is off, check all the bushings and replace as required while everything is on the shop floor...maybe go through the drivelines while they are out.

That sounds like a worthwhile project...

Thanks for all the input guys. It helps a lot. If you think of anything else, chime in!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Sounds awesome and exciting to look forward to getting all that installed and on the trail!

 

[StG58]

Sounds awesome and exciting to look forward to getting all that installed and on the trail!

Thanks Jerry!

Do it once, do it right, and move on!

 

[mrblaine]

Got a little off topic in another thread about Dana 30 axles and thought that it might be better to start a new thread about setting up Dana 30 and Dana 35 axles for my SE.

@Jerry Bransford was kind enough to provide me with some links to Revolution axles for the Dana 35. After thinking about it for a few minutes and exploring the links he provided I came to a realization. Jerry said some things that made really good sense to me. What he said coupled with the fact that the Wife is probably not going to be driving the TJ much, if at all, made me reexamine a Detroit Locker and 30 spline Revolution axles in my SE. After all, she has her own JKU now and will be wheeling that, not the TJ.

So, here goes. I'm now thinking of a lunchbox and Revolution axles in the Dana 30 up front. 30 spline Revolution axles and a Detroit in the rear. I can do all that when I plug the 4.88 gears in and be set to go. I've had a Detroit before, and that is one solid and reliable locker. I've heard that a lunch box in the front is not a bad way to go. The only other addition to this fiasco would be putting on one of @mrblaine's 15" BB kits when I'm doing the Dana 30 in front.

The SE is currently running open diffs and 4.10 / 4.11 gears with 31" tires. I might go to 33x12.50's in about 40 - 50,000 miles when these wear out, but who knows. The additional height may be an issue sometimes. 1" = for the tires and a 1 -1/4" body lift for a total of 2 to 2-1/2" of additional lift from where I'm at now.

What am I missing here? What else makes sense to do at the same time?

You don't need the BBK for that size tire. Our pads and some good rotors will very likely do all you need and then some.

 

[Chris]

X2 @StG58, at your tire size you'd be wasting money on a big brake kit.

Hell, even on my 33" AT tires it might be a waste. I'm just doing it because I liked the idea, and I don't mind overkill.

 

[Kyle_W]

I am interested in a setup like this too.

I was trying to piece together what I'd need to bolster my setup, for 33" tires on steel wheels (more weight):

Limited Slip locker in my Dana 35 + revolution axles + at that point, I may need an upgraded carrier?

Dana 30 HP from a Cherokee + revolution axles + would a locker up front be too much for the stock Dana 30 carrier?