Dana 30 and 35 configurations

[Rob5589]

I am interested in a setup like this too.

I was trying to piece together what I'd need to bolster my setup, for 33" tires on steel wheels (more weight):

Limited Slip locker in my Dana 35 + revolution axles + at that point, I may need an upgraded carrier?

Dana 30 HP from a Cherokee + revolution axles + would a locker up front be too much for the stock Dana 30 carrier?

Dana 35: Limited slip and locker are two different things. LS is either gear driven like the Truetrac or clutch driven like the Traclok. Pass on the crappy Traclok, FYI. A locker is mechanical; either automatic action like Detroit or No Slip or switchable/driver activated like the ARB. Anything other than the "lunchbox" style lockers will replace the carrier. Alloy axles are definitely recommended with any of the lockers.
Dana 30: You can go with the same types of diffs as the 35. The 30 can handle a locker with stock axles although certainly nothing wrong with the alloy axle set. A No Slip, Aussie, or similar is a good set up for the front.

 

[StG58]

You don't need the BBK for that size tire. Our pads and some good rotors will very likely do all you need and then some.

Thanks a bunch for speaking up on the brakes, @mrblaine, I appreciate your advice. Centric rotors and Black Magic pads are more in the budget, and I'll be doing front brakes this spring anyway. Sweet, this is coming together rather nicely.

 

[Kyle_W]

Dana 35: Limited slip and locker are two different things. LS is either gear driven like the Truetrac or clutch driven like the Traclok. Pass on the crappy Traclok, FYI. A locker is mechanical; either automatic action like Detroit or No Slip or switchable/driver activated like the ARB. Anything other than the "lunchbox" style lockers will replace the carrier. Alloy axles are definitely recommended with any of the lockers.
Dana 30: You can go with the same types of diffs as the 35. The 30 can handle a locker with stock axles although certainly nothing wrong with the alloy axle set. A No Slip, Aussie, or similar is a good set up for the front.

Thank you for that information! I read a post by @Jerry where he explains that locking a Dana 35 on a stock carrier is a sure way to blow it up. But i've always been under the impression that taking it slow with a locked Dana 35, with alloy axle shafts (for me i'd buy Revolution's), is of no consequence. I hope that he chimes in on this subject.

Would putting an Aussie lunchbox locker into my Dana 30HP be a better investment than throwing money at a Dana 35 (for 33" tires)?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Thank you for that information! I read a post by @Jerry where he explains that locking a Dana 35 on a stock carrier is a sure way to blow it up. But i've always been under the impression that taking it slow with a locked Dana 35, with alloy axle shafts (for me i'd buy Revolution's), is of no consequence. I hope that he chimes in on this subject.

Would putting an Aussie lunchbox locker into my Dana 30HP be a better investment than throwing money at a Dana 35 (for 33" tires)?

It's not the carrier in a Dana 35 that breaks with big tires, especially if a locker has been installed, it's the OE (factory) 27 spline axle shafts that like to break. Like you can see at http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/

Installing good quality aftermarket alloy shafts gets rid of the Dana 35's biggest weakness. For 33" tires and a locker, alloy 27 spline shafts are usually fine. Good quality (!!!) alloy 27 spline Dana 35 shafts are right at about the strength of a stock Dana 44. But for 35" tires and a locker, I'd go for a Super 35 kit which includes 30 spline alloy shafts and your choice of several lockers. For a Super 35 kit, I'd go only with the one made by www.revolutiongear.com which is manufactured here in the US (Los Angeles). A more complete listing of Revolution's axle products can be found at www.4lowparts.com

If you want a locker but can't afford alloy shafts or a Super 35 kit to beef up your Dana 35, then yes an Aussie locker for your front Dana 30 would be a better choice. Locked stock Dana 35 axles don't survive long on the trail.

 

[Kyle_W]

It's not the carrier in a Dana 35 that breaks with big tires, especially if a locker has been installed, it's the OE (factory) 27 spline axle shafts that like to break. Like you can see at http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/

Installing good quality aftermarket alloy shafts gets rid of the Dana 35's biggest weakness. For 33" tires and a locker, alloy 27 spline shafts are usually fine. Good quality (!!!) alloy 27 spline Dana 35 shafts are right at about the strength of a stock Dana 44. But for 35" tires and a locker, I'd go for a Super 35 kit which includes 30 spline alloy shafts and your choice of several lockers. For a Super 35 kit, I'd go only with the one made by www.revolutiongear.com which is manufactured here in the US (Los Angeles). A more complete listing of Revolution's axle products can be found at www.4lowparts.com

If you want a locker but can't afford alloy shafts or a Super 35 kit to beef up your Dana 35, then yes an Aussie locker for your front Dana 30 would be a better choice. Locked stock Dana 35 axles don't survive long on the trail.

I must have read your context wrong in the original post. Then ok, alloy axle shafts WILL allow me to run a locker if I choose to do so!

However, yes i'd be more comfortable having a lunch-box locker up front in my newly acquired Dana 30HP, and then maybe later work on my Dana 35.

Looking at a lunchbox locker however, it looks like the majority of the time you are driving, those teeth will constantly slide over each other - both in 2wd and 4wd (until you lose traction and the teeth lock together). Unless I am missing something, sir?

 

[Rob5589]

Locker with stock shafts is bad, locker with alloy axles is good

The default for a locker is engaged. If not under power and turning it will disengage. Since no power is being sent to the front in 2wd it will disengage, that is when you may hear the ratcheting.

 

[Kyle_W]

Locker with stock shafts is bad, locker with alloy axles is good

The default for a locker is engaged. If not under power and turning it will disengage. Since no power is being sent to the front in 2wd it will disengage, that is when you may hear the ratcheting.

Im trying to imagine how it would operate: it seems like it'll either be locked, or it'll be "ratcheting". Which, 92% of the time I'll be driving on the road (not in 4wd), so I imagine those teeth constantly "ratcheting" against each other.

Am I missing something? Because I can't imagine those teeth lasting long if they are almost constantly contacting each other and spinning?

 

[Rob5589]

They don't really "ratchet" against one another. The splined side and center gear teeth slide against one another until back on the power and it will "pop" back in place once it hits the correct spot. Try and Google how lockers work, better to see how it works than to explain it.

Lockers are tough, hardened steel and designed to do what they do. No worry about wearing them out for a loooong time.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Looking at a lunchbox locker however, it looks like the majority of the time you are driving, those teeth will constantly slide over each other - both in 2wd and 4wd (until you lose traction and the teeth lock together). Unless I am missing something, sir?

An automatic locker doesn't lock up hard until there is torque passing through it which only happens when you shift into 4Hi or 4Lo. It's a non-issue, they work fine long enough that we don't often read of anyone wearing it out. In 2wd, an Aussie or Lockrite lunchbox locker only clicks a bit through turns as it ratchets while you're on the street. With a Powertrax No-Slip lunchbox locker, about $100 more to buy, it doesn't even click... it's virtually silent on the street. All three of those lockers otherwise work nearly identically to each other.

 

[Kyle_W]

@Jerry Bransford and @Rob5589 - I see what you are saying. I have researched them, and that's how I noticed the constant clicking (except, yes, only whenever you are turning).

Am I just overthinking it? I only care because if I spend money on something, I want it to last for almost an indefinite amount of time.

So, every time I turn, i'd just imagine those teeth clicking together and shaving the life off of them by ___%. Versus having an air locker which I can turn on and off at will.

Jerry, you said that you had a lunchbox locker for 10 years, correct? Was that a Powertrax?

Thank ya'll for your help!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

All I can say is yes, you are overthinking this. Get yourself something like an Aussie or No-Slip locker into your front axle and don't worry about it. The lunchbox I had in my previous TJ's front axle was a Powertrax No-Slip but I don't recall how long it was in there. I think I probably installed it 2002 and that Jeep was stolen about 6 years ago so maybe 9 years of use before the TJ was stolen is my guess.

 

[Kyle_W]

All I can say is yes, you are overthinking this. Get yourself something like an Aussie or No-Slip locker into your front axle and don't worry about it. The lunchbox I had in my previous TJ's front axle was a Powertrax No-Slip but I don't recall how long it was in there. I think I probably installed it 2002 and that Jeep was stolen about 6 years ago so maybe 9 years of use before the TJ was stolen is my guess.

I hate thieves. I am sorry for that. I would have just sat in the fetal position for the rest of my life.

But ok ok... I was going to go with the Aussie, since its only $250 and still seems to be great quality!

My plan was to get a Dana 30HP off of a late model Cherokee, install new spicer ball joints left and right, install an XJ tie rod, install said Aussie locker, and put a Poison Spyder differential cover on it as well. Then of course save my spider gears and then bob's your uncle!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I hate thieves. I am sorry for that. I would have just sat in the fetal position for the rest of my life.

But ok ok... I was going to go with the Aussie, since its only $250 and still seems to be great quality!

My plan was to get a Dana 30HP off of a late model Cherokee, install new spicer ball joints left and right, install an XJ tie rod, install said Aussie locker, and put a Poison Spyder differential cover on it as well. Then of course save my spider gears and then bob's your uncle!

Be wary of aftermarket front diff covers. Many are so thick or poorly designed that they interfere with the tie rod or drag link. Don't be thinking of coolness where covers are concerned, many just cause big interference problems.

This guard won't cause problems... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CQDR2K/?tag=wranglerorg-20 and neither will this one... http://www.currieenterprises.com/JS-HD30. I have run both, both are superb and neither has the ability to cause interference problems which is so common with the front axle.

 

[Rob5589]

So here are some pics of the No Slip from my Silverado.

In the first is what it will look like when locked, both wheels in same direction, and under power. You can see the teeth meshed together.

This pic is when the wheels are not under power and have differing turning speeds. You can see how the center pieces compress the springs to allow the teeth to slide across one another, so there really is minimal wear to the teeth themselves. There are several springs inside that are compressed to break loose during differing wheel speeds.

When either back under power and/or both wheels turning the same distance, it will pop back into place. You can also see the potential for play between the pieces which is why people will complain about banging and excessive play in the driveline while running a locker.

 

[Kyle_W]

So here are some pics of the No Slip from my Silverado.

In the first is what it will look like when locked, both wheels in same direction, and under power. You can see the teeth meshed together.
View attachment 9028

This pic is when the wheels are not under power and have differing turning speeds. You can see how the center pieces compress the springs to allow the teeth to slide across one another, so there really is minimal wear to the teeth themselves. There are several springs inside that are compressed to break loose during differing wheel speeds.
View attachment 9029

When either back under power and/or both wheels turning the same distance, it will pop back into place. You can also see the potential for play between the pieces which is why people will complain about banging and excessive play in the driveline while running a locker.

Thank you! Yes sir, I do understand how they work. I just don't like the idea of teeth sliding against each other.

@Jerry Bransford, thank you for those links! And apparently poison spyder re-designed their Dana 30 cover so that you can run it with a stock TJ steering setup.

I wanted to get a Barnett Performance cover - however I think they aren't in business anymore?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Nice informative post, great photos that really illustrate much of how lunchbox lockers work.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I wanted to get a Barnett Performance cover - however I think they aren't in business anymore?

You must not have looked closely enough at my second link going to Currie, that is the Barnett cover. It just doesn't say Barnett, it appears Currie bought the rights to manufacture it after Barnett stopped selling them. If that price is ok for you, that's the one I would (and did) go with.

That cover was originally made & sold by T&J who sold it to Barnett, who apparently sold it to Currie.

 

[Kyle_W]

You must not have looked closely at my second second link going to Currie, that is the Barnett cover. It just doesn't say Barnett, it appears Currie bought the rights to manufacture it after Barnett stopped selling them. If that price is ok for you, that's the one I would (and did) go with.

That cover was originally made & sold by T&J who sold it to Barnett, who apparently sold it to Currie.

Ahhh ok, now I know what they look like! It's a little pricey but I don't doubt its quality.

That makes sense now. Thank you!

 

[Kyle_W]

So here are some pics of the No Slip from my Silverado.

In the first is what it will look like when locked, both wheels in same direction, and under power. You can see the teeth meshed together.
View attachment 9028

This pic is when the wheels are not under power and have differing turning speeds. You can see how the center pieces compress the springs to allow the teeth to slide across one another, so there really is minimal wear to the teeth themselves. There are several springs inside that are compressed to break loose during differing wheel speeds.
View attachment 9029

When either back under power and/or both wheels turning the same distance, it will pop back into place. You can also see the potential for play between the pieces which is why people will complain about banging and excessive play in the driveline while running a locker.

I'm just curious, what brand is this locker in question?

 

[Rob5589]

I'm just curious, what brand is this locker in question?

Powertrax No Slip.