This is what the electric Jeep is going to look like at Moab

Sounds like you barely understand solar power grid systems and other options like the back up battery packs system for solar systems.
Gas engine is the horse and electric engine is the future. Doesn't mean you can't ride a horse today they are still around but it's stupid and unnecessary for daily commuting. I guess you never saw a Tesla solar power charging stations or Google head quarters with solar panels all over the campus.
My take is I can't wait for self driving electric cars and electric jeep with 600hp torque for all wheels and 1000 mile range per charge.

I have only 12x solar panels on my roof with 3000 watts with each panel making 250 watts each. I'm getting a positive gain in electricity for the whole year and is sent back to grid. Since I live in a sunny state i dont need as many panels to produce enough to run my house. If I add 8x panels I can run a Tesla free for the whole year too. That's electric and my system is warranty for 25 years.

That's find and dandy as long as you drive the Tesla for 8 years to offsett the associated emissions from the manufacturing process. At least according to a study I heard about recently.

The gentleman's point stands that a lot of people that purchase those units won't own the car for more than eight years, as the average in the U.S. is 80 months not 96. Just because the emissions are good doesn't mean it is immediately eco friendly.

Mother Earth likes it when we reuse and recycle, that's why everyone should buy a used TJ!
 
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That's find and dandy as long as you drive the Tesla for 8 years to offsett the associated emissions from the manufacturing process. At least according to a study I heard about recently.

The gentleman's point stands that a lot of people that purchase those units won't own the car for more than eight years, as the average in the U.S. is 80 months not 96. Just because the emissions are good doesn't mean it is immediately eco friendly.

Mother Earth likes it when we reuse and recycle, that's why everyone should buy a used TJ!

Checkmate! Game over bro....

 
I just live close to work so my fuel use is low and I can bike in if the weather isn't total crap.

Driving 100 miles a day vs 12 is more wasteful regardless of the fuel source. Changing the mode of transport is the only real way to make a difference.

I have enough stuff and got a lot of it used off craigslist, so I recycle everything I can. And buy less stuff overall. Reduction is the key.

In renewable energy it's referred to as negawatts. The first thing to do when you look to install renewable power is to reduce consumption with efficiency and/or lifestyle changes. The avoidance cost is typically way cheaper than the installed cost even if it means buying all new efficient appliances, lights, smaller house, etc.
 
I love to here from you left coast folks. Good for a laugh. Please send me a brochure of this 600 hp Jeep with a 1,000 mi range. I'm ready to buy it today.
Oh, what? They don't exist? How about you show me a charging station within 50 mi of my house.
Oh, what? They don't exist?
Well, at least show me the solar system that can run my house and my electric car in January where it's in the 30's and down to sub 0 at night with 3 sunny days.
Oh, what? They don't exist?

In this state you are not allowed to have a solar system with a battery backup and still be allowed to tie into the grid. ILLEGAL.
Anybody know why there is so little lithium extraction here in the US? Contamination way beyond what the EPA allows (according to 3 different companies wanting to put solar panels on my roof.)
An electric car may work if you live in the desert and work from home, but what about the guy who drives 60 miles to work in Feb? Need the heat on at the house 24/7 and need the heat on for the drive to work. And there is no place to recharge the car. And it's been overcast for the last week solid. And you can't have a battery bank.
I'm pretty sure you folks with your fancy Tesla's (the half dozen or so they actually produce a year) are not going to let the "recycling" plant anywhere near where you live either. The horse is a hell of a lot more practical than a stupid electric car that can't get me to work and back in less than ideal conditions.
So quit telling me stories Mr Ed Begley Jr.
 
Checkmate! Game over bro....


Solid state batteries have absolutely nothing to do with the math associated with the carbon footprint of a Tesla. A Tesla has lithium ion batteries. Tesla carbon footprints are linked to the tooling of the manufacturing line, the construction of the manufacturing plant, raw materials consumed and many other variables. Just like any other new car. This video has nothing to do with my point. My point was simply that many people assume the purchase of a Tesla does an immediate solid for the environment and that it doesn't until after a set period of time. Buying used is usually a solid by the environment because you are reusing, not consuming, additional raw materials and the associated carbon footprint of the manufacturing of said raw materials.

BTW I love electric vehicles and Tesla as a company. I just don't like bad math.

So, I guess you checkmated me but I flipped the board? ;) Lol it's all good and fun.
 
I love electric anything. We sell electricity so more electric consumption is better.
 
I've got my eye on an electric bike. Those make sense to me. Just can't get a seat that doesn't fire off my sciatic. We had a 3 wheel (2 in back) bike we used in a large (3+ acres under roof) shop years ago. It had a basket in back to haul tools and parts. Put an electric motor to one of those, add a bigger battery pack in part of the basket, and man would that be a great around town vehicle for city folks.
 
I love to here from you left coast folks. Good for a laugh. Please send me a brochure of this 600 hp Jeep with a 1,000 mi range. I'm ready to buy it today.
Oh, what? They don't exist? How about you show me a charging station within 50 mi of my house.
Oh, what? They don't exist?
Well, at least show me the solar system that can run my house and my electric car in January where it's in the 30's and down to sub 0 at night with 3 sunny days.
Oh, what? They don't exist?

In this state you are not allowed to have a solar system with a battery backup and still be allowed to tie into the grid. ILLEGAL.
Anybody know why there is so little lithium extraction here in the US? Contamination way beyond what the EPA allows (according to 3 different companies wanting to put solar panels on my roof.)
An electric car may work if you live in the desert and work from home, but what about the guy who drives 60 miles to work in Feb? Need the heat on at the house 24/7 and need the heat on for the drive to work. And there is no place to recharge the car. And it's been overcast for the last week solid. And you can't have a battery bank.
I'm pretty sure you folks with your fancy Tesla's (the half dozen or so they actually produce a year) are not going to let the "recycling" plant anywhere near where you live either. The horse is a hell of a lot more practical than a stupid electric car that can't get me to work and back in less than ideal conditions.
So quit telling me stories Mr Ed Begley Jr.


I live in central WI which has pretty similar weather to you.

I had a coeworker who's house was 100% off grid. He designed/built it at least 10 years ago at this point. That tech has changed and improved a lot in the time since he built it.

There were trade offs, but it wasn't overly inconvenient for him.
 
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I love to here from you left coast folks. Good for a laugh. Please send me a brochure of this 600 hp Jeep with a 1,000 mi range. I'm ready to buy it today.
Oh, what? They don't exist? How about you show me a charging station within 50 mi of my house.
Oh, what? They don't exist?
Well, at least show me the solar system that can run my house and my electric car in January where it's in the 30's and down to sub 0 at night with 3 sunny days.
Oh, what? They don't exist?

In this state you are not allowed to have a solar system with a battery backup and still be allowed to tie into the grid. ILLEGAL.
Anybody know why there is so little lithium extraction here in the US? Contamination way beyond what the EPA allows (according to 3 different companies wanting to put solar panels on my roof.)
An electric car may work if you live in the desert and work from home, but what about the guy who drives 60 miles to work in Feb? Need the heat on at the house 24/7 and need the heat on for the drive to work. And there is no place to recharge the car. And it's been overcast for the last week solid. And you can't have a battery bank.
I'm pretty sure you folks with your fancy Tesla's (the half dozen or so they actually produce a year) are not going to let the "recycling" plant anywhere near where you live either. The horse is a hell of a lot more practical than a stupid electric car that can't get me to work and back in less than ideal conditions.
So quit telling me stories Mr Ed Begley Jr.

I encourage you to do more research on some of your statements! Every little bit of gas/oil we can save means more cheap gas for us petrol heads! A lot of your arguments were also made back when our horseless carriages were taking over. No infrastructure to fill up your gas tanks, not enough range, not efficient. Things adapt and change quickly.

As stated above systems in Cali will not work everywhere. A solar system combined with wind and battery can do what you say. Again they aren't perfect but it's all changing very fast.

Also it is not illegal in ny (if that is where you live?) to have a hybrid battery backup grid tied system. Not sure where you found that info but it sounds like a salesmen who only had 1 type of system to sell. The law states that you need to be disconnected from the grid in the event of a power failure. Modern hybrid systems are able to do this and either charge the battery from pv or discharge the battery to your electrical panel. It's a great way to replace a backup generator which sounds like for you in a remote area may be worth looking into if you loose power often.

There is a lot of mis information out there about electric vehicles but there is also a lot of bad EV's too. Tesla is light years ahead of the pack, but it's ok if you don't like them. We can still ride our horses today and I'm sure in the future you and I will still be holding onto our dinosaur juice wagons. We can still learn about the new tech and try to preserve our passion.
 
These electric Jeeps weren't built for off-roading. They were built for the soccer moms (and dads) who drive them as SUVs and want better fuel economy.

Face it, 99 out of 100 Jeep owners who go out and buy a new one are buying it as a "cool SUV", they have no intention of ever leaving the pavement. Therefore, the hybrid Jeep is perfect for them ;)
 
How many of you have needed to add more than 5ish gallons of gas on the trail? No 'what if' bs, but actually needed the range to make it back to civilization?
 
You can also take a Honda Civic to a race track. Was it built for that? Nope

Doesn't mean you can't do it.
 
Aren't the only Jeep EVs so far the Renegade and Cherokee? They use a front wheel drive gas powertrain with a EV rear assist.

The proposed 2020 PHEV Wrangler would have to be a different setup with the electric and gas motors combining power before the transfer case or they will need to redesign the suspension system. Maybe make the Wrangler 4 wheel independent suspension or something fun like that.
 
How many of you have needed to add more than 5ish gallons of gas on the trail? No 'what if' bs, but actually needed the range to make it back to civilization?

Batteries are impacted by a number of factors, heat and cold being major contributors, as well as age. The "range" goes down over a period of years, and what might have once been a 200 mile range is now a 100 mile range 5 years later.

Is it really hot out that day? Because if so, your 200 mile range might be more like 150. Electric batteries also drain incredibly fast at highway speeds, so if you plan on driving 20-30 miles to your destination, by the time you get there, your range would probably be something like 120-150 (assuming a 200 mile total range).

Would you like to take that thing in the mud, water, dragging it over rocks, etc? How waterproof or mud resistant do you think all those electronics are? It's about way more than just range.

What will you do it when the electronics start acting up after wheeling it in the mud, and it can't be driven home because it now simply won't start?

Would it be fun to off-road an electric Jeep? Yes, it would indeed... if you had a support crew to follow you around, as well as a mobile generator, just incase.

So yeah, it's about way more than just "range" I would say.

And at the end of the day, once 5-7 years passes and that battery is no longer any good, how much do you think it costs to replace?

Well, I can tell you that the 14 Kw battery on the Zero SR/F motorcycle I was thinking about buying was a whopping $6000 to replace, and the battery was only warrantied for 5 years.

So I have to imagine the battery on an electric Jeep would be even more expensive.

The cons far outweigh the pros, at least at this point in time.

However, if you're driving it in town to take the kids to soccer practice or run errands, I think it's a great idea.
 
You haven't been to many trackdays or autox competitions, have you...

I have indeed. And I've seen plenty of people dump thousands into Honda Civics.

I can build a Honda Civic to outrun a Hellcat in a 1/4 mile drag race.

Hence my original point, it wasn't built for that, but it doesn't mean you can't do it.

My guess is that Jeep didn't build an electric Wrangler for off-roading purposes. They built it because it helps sell "Motortrend's SUV of the year" by offering the typical buyer (the one that is not off-roading it) a more appealing vehicle, in that it saves on fuel costs.
 
There's a purpose built racecar that's cheaper?:ROFLMAO:

Most of those drawbacks apply to any modern jeep as well. You're not fixing an engine or electrical issue on a JL on the trail(that wouldnt be fixable on an EV as well)

Whats the range of the TJ on a trail? I think I average about 3-4mpg when I'm out wheeling.