Planning to paint my hardtop; a few questions

[Jamison C]

Since my jeep came with a hardtop and soft top, I don't have any desire to get rid of the hardtop, even here in AZ. To be honest I actually like the way it looks with my Sahara. However it is extremely faded and I plan on restoring it to it's original color in the next couple months.

Some pics for reference:

My jeep with the faded dark tan top

And a couple other pictures with the tops in their original color

So I reached out to SEM and found a paint match for this color. Their customer support seems to be just as good as their product.

My initial plan was to buy some SEM aerosol cans and paint the hardtop like others have done with good success. My ability to do a rattle can job with good results has improved by a lot thanks to helpful tips from different members here. I'm fully confident in a great finish using the SEM.

Then I got to thinking. I want to start dabbling in using a spray gun. I think the hardtop would be a good slate to experiment on with a simple flat base coat and a low luster clear. My dad bought a cheap harbor freight gun and accessories years ago that's never been used, and told me I was welcome to it.

What do you guys think? SEM isn't cheap, but it offers great results time and time again. How many cans of SEM would I need for complete coverage on base and clear?

If I go the spray gun route, how much base coat would I need? A pint, or a quart? Obviously I need some reducer, and clear. I feel more comfortable asking you bunch, because I've seen your results, and I'm tired of "pros" on YouTube spreading false and conflicting info. Is it even worth going this route on something as simple as the hardtop? I'm not trying to do a $5000 paint job, but I'd like to learn the basics

@bobthetj03 I know you have a background in automotive paint. @Mike_H I've seen your metallic paint work on the Moab and AEV wheels which turned out phenomenal. @Chris I saw you talking about painting your old top black with SEM. Hoping you guys will chime in.

 

[Mike_H]

I'd actually start with some of that finish restorer stuff. See how that works for a season. Lots easier than painting. If you do go down the painting road, I'd definitely do the gun route, if you have an Air Compressor big enough to drive it. Gotta make sure you have dry, clean air going to the gun or you'll get poor results.

Once you have that system set-up, you'll need to prep. When you think its clean, clean it again. That texture on the hardtops will hold a ton of garbage. I'd almost think you'd be better off to sand it smooth before paint and use a tinted bedliner product (unless you like the smooth painted hardtop look). I don't know if you need adhesion promoter on SMC. Then a good epoxy primer and a nice single stage base coat. You think SEM is expensive...wait till you start pricing out automotive paint by the quart!

For what its worth, the above is just where I'd start to research. I'm not a painter and I don't pretend to be. I appreciate your comments about my wheels. I can assure you they are not as nice as they look in photos and they are the result of LOTS of reading online (stay off youtube, mostly) and a lot of practice with rattlebombs and various guns over the years. I've screwed up way more painting projects than I care to admit because of gun set-up, contamination, improper cleaning, etc. I actually use a Harbor Freight gun now, and its does a pretty good job.

A site to get the pump primed. Look for sites similar to these. I also found a forum, but the name is slipping my mind. Start Googling HVLP and DIY and How-To and similar key terms.

https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/hvlp_paintgun_basics.htm

 

[grumblebee]

I'm with Mike_H on trying restorer first. Wish I had a product to recommend that I have used. I recommend Solution Finish for graying black plastics, but the tops are a different material and colors. I'd personally try smaller spray gun projects before attempting it on the hardtop, because I know there is a learning curve and it would drive me crazy if my hardtop looked like test project, which it might no matter how hard I tried. There are a lot of variables.

Didn't mean to go full Negative Nancy, but man I hate cleaning up painting supplies.

 

[Jason06]

My brother in law repainted the hardtop on his 2004 a few months ago. His top is black but the process would be the same. He cleaned it real good with a wax remover/degreaser a couple of times and then used a scotch pad to scuff it. He used SEM trim black with an hvlp gun and the finish is amazing. No adhesion promoter or sanding was needed according to him.

 

[Jamison C]

I'd actually start with some of that finish restorer stuff. See how that works for a season. Lots easier than painting. If you do go down the painting road, I'd definitely do the gun route, if you have an Air Compressor big enough to drive it. Gotta make sure you have dry, clean air going to the gun or you'll get poor results.

Once you have that system set-up, you'll need to prep. When you think its clean, clean it again. That texture on the hardtops will hold a ton of garbage. I'd almost think you'd be better off to sand it smooth before paint and use a tinted bedliner product (unless you like the smooth painted hardtop look). I don't know if you need adhesion promoter on SMC. Then a good epoxy primer and a nice single stage base coat. You think SEM is expensive...wait till you start pricing out automotive paint by the quart!

For what its worth, the above is just where I'd start to research. I'm not a painter and I don't pretend to be. I appreciate your comments about my wheels. I can assure you they are not as nice as they look in photos and they are the result of LOTS of reading online (stay off youtube, mostly) and a lot of practice with rattlebombs and various guns over the years. I've screwed up way more painting projects than I care to admit because of gun set-up, contamination, improper cleaning, etc. I actually use a Harbor Freight gun now, and its does a pretty good job.

A site to get the pump primed. Look for sites similar to these. I also found a forum, but the name is slipping my mind. Start Googling HVLP and DIY and How-To and similar key terms.

https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/hvlp_paintgun_basics.htm

Thanks for the link and the tips. I have a 120psi Husky air compressor that should work. My dad and I built a portable paint booth years ago that sits in one of the classrooms of our church for projects we're working on. I'll be painting it in there where its dry, vented, well lit, and air conditioned.

I think I'm going to call an automotive paint shop tomorrow to see what kind of prices I'm looking at. I agree that automotive paint is expensive, but I'm not trying to do some color-matched metallic paint job so I can't imagine it being more to mix up a quart of a flat base vs. buying multiple cans, but I'll see! I'd rather buy once and cry once. Since the hardtop is already painted, I don't think I'll need a primer since there will be existing paint to bite into, but again I'll see what a shop has to say.

I'm with Mike_H on trying restorer first. Wish I had a product to recommend that I have used. I recommend Solution Finish for graying black plastics, but the tops are a different material and colors. I'd personally try smaller spray gun projects before attempting it on the hardtop, because I know there is a learning curve and it would drive me crazy if my hardtop looked like test project, which it might no matter how hard I tried. There are a lot of variables.

Didn't mean to go full Negative Nancy, but man I hate cleaning up painting supplies.

Thanks for the tips, and welcome to the forum! I used Penetrol on my last TJ's hardtop with good results. It was a factory grey so it didn't fade too much, but the Penetol definitely brought it back darker. However, that was in the winter before I sold the top, so I didn't get to see long term results. We have harsh sun here in AZ and I'd rather paint and finish it with some UV rated clear to keep it looking fresh for years to come. I don't imagine Penetrol would hold up well after a couple of summers here.

I have some stuff I can practice on, and if I do go the gun route and screw the top up, I can default to rattle cans which I'm pretty good with now. I don't mind the prep work. My OCD makes me very meticulous so I kind of enjoy it lol. Cleaning up after myself on the other hand I just absolutely love more than anything

My brother in law repainted the hardtop on his 2004 a few months ago. His top is black but the process would be the same. He cleaned it real good with a wax remover/degreaser a couple of times and then used a scotch pad to scuff it. He used SEM trim black with an hvlp gun and the finish is amazing. No adhesion promoter or sanding was needed according to him.

Ideally, I'd like to use SEM through an HVLP. There's an automotive paint place about an hour away that mixes SEM so I'm going to give them a call tomorrow and pick their brains. I'd probably scuff it up enough for the paint to bite since the top is already painted from the factory, I don't think multiple sands or primer would be necessary, but I'll leave that to the pros. Get some pictures from him and post them up! Appreciate you chiming in.

 

[grumblebee]

My OCD makes me very meticulous so I kind of enjoy it lol.

Same, except when it involves paint thinner or mineral spirits. haha.

Thanks for the welcome; it's good to be here! Sounds like you have decided to spray, and that it's the best choice for the weather conditions in AZ. My only other suggestion is to read all the reviews to learn the quirks of the HF gun. Take a lot of pics of the whole process for us! I'm checking out your build thread now.

 

[bobthetj03]

Spray gun FTW. Practice, get the gun dialed in first. Clean the top, then clean it again. When you think it's clean, clean it again. Multipurpose cleaner, then wax/grease remover, then multipurpose again. Scuff with a grey Scrotchbrite pad, then clean again. No need for primer if you don't scuff thru. A low luster clear would be a good idea for UV protection. SEM is good stuff, but go easy on the coats. Thin, multiple coats with plenty of flash time between coats. Be patient.

 

[Mike_H]

Thanks for the link and the tips. I have a 120psi Husky air compressor that should work. My dad and I built a portable paint booth years ago that sits in one of the classrooms of our church for projects we're working on. I'll be painting it in there where its dry, vented, well lit, and air conditioned.

I think I'm going to call an automotive paint shop tomorrow to see what kind of prices I'm looking at. I agree that automotive paint is expensive, but I'm not trying to do some color-matched metallic paint job so I can't imagine it being more to mix up a quart of a flat base vs. buying multiple cans, but I'll see! I'd rather buy once and cry once. Since the hardtop is already painted, I don't think I'll need a primer since there will be existing paint to bite into, but again I'll see what a shop has to say.


Thanks for the tips, and welcome to the forum! I used Penetrol on my last TJ's hardtop with good results. It was a factory grey so it didn't fade too much, but the Penetol definitely brought it back darker. However, that was in the winter before I sold the top, so I didn't get to see long term results. We have harsh sun here in AZ and I'd rather paint and finish it with some UV rated clear to keep it looking fresh for years to come. I don't imagine Penetrol would hold up well after a couple of summers here.

I have some stuff I can practice on, and if I do go the gun route and screw the top up, I can default to rattle cans which I'm pretty good with now. I don't mind the prep work. My OCD makes me very meticulous so I kind of enjoy it lol. Cleaning up after myself on the other hand I just absolutely love more than anything


Ideally, I'd like to use SEM through an HVLP. There's an automotive paint place about an hour away that mixes SEM so I'm going to give them a call tomorrow and pick their brains. I'd probably scuff it up enough for the paint to bite since the top is already painted from the factory, I don't think multiple sands or primer would be necessary, but I'll leave that to the pros. Get some pictures from him and post them up! Appreciate you chiming in.

Are you sure it's painted? I thought that the hardtops in factory colors (which spice is) were molded in color and not painted. That's why they fade like they do.

 

[Chris]

I painted mine with SEM trim black.

Here's how it turned out:

 

[il buono]

If you want to get some practice with a spray gun, I'd go that route. That's what we did when we painted my LJ hardtop. We had a cheap gun laying around and bought rust-oleum satin black from Home Depot. The air compressor we used was not ideal for the spray gun, but we pushed through and we happy with the end result. SEM trim black was my second option. I would've gone with SEM first, but I had no clue how many cans I'd need to buy and since it's satin black, it was quicker (and cheaper) to get a quart of satin black paint from Home Depot.

Prepped and scuffed the surface with scotchbrite. I still wanted to keep the textured finish, so I didn't go crazy with any sanding. Your portable paint booth will definitely be a huge help. We did it out in the open in the front yard on a windy day.

 

[Jamison C]

Spray gun FTW. Practice, get the gun dialed in first. Clean the top, then clean it again. When you think it's clean, clean it again. Multipurpose cleaner, then wax/grease remover, then multipurpose again. Scuff with a grey Scrotchbrite pad, then clean again. No need for primer if you don't scuff thru. A low luster clear would be a good idea for UV protection. SEM is good stuff, but go easy on the coats. Thin, multiple coats with plenty of flash time between coats. Be patient.

Thanks. I'll probably go to Home Depot and get a thing of rustoleum just to play around with the gun. I have some old file cabinets I can practice on. I'm convinced Jeep never added a clear from the factory between how easy they fade and how easy they are to scratch.

Are you sure it's painted? I thought that the hardtops in factory colors (which spice is) were molded in color and not painted. That's why they fade like they do.

Yes they're molded in the white color you see from the inside. The outside is painted. If you scratch one good enough you can see the white molding underneath the color.

If you want to get some practice with a spray gun, I'd go that route. That's what we did when we painted my LJ hardtop. We had a cheap gun laying around and bought rust-oleum satin black from Home Depot. The air compressor we used was not ideal for the spray gun, but we pushed through and we happy with the end result. SEM trim black was my second option. I would've gone with SEM first, but I had no clue how many cans I'd need to buy and since it's satin black, it was quicker (and cheaper) to get a quart of satin black paint from Home Depot.

Prepped and scuffed the surface with scotchbrite. I still wanted to keep the textured finish, so I didn't go crazy with any sanding. Your portable paint booth will definitely be a huge help. We did it out in the open in the front yard on a windy day.
View attachment 170380View attachment 170381View attachment 170382

Thanks for these, looked like it turned out great! The sun in Tucson is brutal too. Did you hit it with any clear or UV protectant after?

 

[Mike_H]

Rustoleum is pretty thick to be spraying from a gun. You need to thin it a bit. If you have a farm store near by, they carry a line of farm and implement paint. Majik is the brand at the store I frequent. The nice thing about the Majik paint is that the also sell a thinner and a hardener. The thinner will properly thin the paint for spraying through the gun. The Hardener will help that paint cure much more quickly. Normally that Alkyd enamel will take 24 hours to dry. With the hardener, it reduces that time considerably to something like 4 hours.

 

[bobthetj03]

And with a hardener added you increase the strength, UV protection, and chemical resistance of the paint. Careful though, you'll have a pot life to spray it and clean the gun afterwards, so don't dilly dally. Also, wear a dual cartridge respirator designed for spraying automotive paints.

 

[Cornbread]

I have no experience with the harbor freight gun, but my dad and I bought ours at PPG ~$200 and its very nice The guys there were very knowledgable on getting us started. If you think you will be doing more painting in the future, I'd invest in a more reputable gun.

Like others said above, preparation is key.

 

[il buono]

Thanks for these, looked like it turned out great! The sun in Tucson is brutal too. Did you hit it with any clear or UV protectant after?

I did consider it, but I skipped the clear coat. Even though it came out good, I just wasn't happy with the spray gun + compressor combo we had. I'll just see how long the current paint lasts in the AZ sun. When it gets pretty faded, I plan on using better equipment the second time around.

 

[Jamison C]

So just a little update. I spoke with a shop that mixes the SEM paints and got some good info. The guy recommended 2 quarts of both base and clear, but the kicker is that I’m looking at $87 per quart. I knew that automotive paint was expensive but man, almost $100 a quart He also said the SEM doesn’t need a reducer, so I can’t stretch the base out farther than a quart.

The whole reason I decided to take this on is because I thought I could do it myself much cheaper than a shop would charge, even with margin for error. I was quoted $400 by a very reputable place here, and just the paint alone isn’t much less than that. I’m not sure I wanna go this route now because having it painted just isn’t worth that much to me.

Any thoughts? Less expensive paints that would warrant decent results? He asked me if there was a specific reason I wanted SEM and all I could think of is how widely used it is here with good results.

 

[Jamison C]

Rustoleum is pretty thick to be spraying from a gun. You need to thin it a bit. If you have a farm store near by, they carry a line of farm and implement paint. Majik is the brand at the store I frequent. The nice thing about the Majik paint is that the also sell a thinner and a hardener. The thinner will properly thin the paint for spraying through the gun. The Hardener will help that paint cure much more quickly. Normally that Alkyd enamel will take 24 hours to dry. With the hardener, it reduces that time considerably to something like 4 hours.

I’ll look into this brand. Thank you.

 

[Hog]

So.. did you paint it?...

 

[billiebob]

So just a little update. I spoke with a shop that mixes the SEM paints and got some good info. The guy recommended 2 quarts of both base and clear, but the kicker is that I’m looking at $87 per quart. I knew that automotive paint was expensive but man, almost $100 a quart He also said the SEM doesn’t need a reducer, so I can’t stretch the base out farther than a quart.

The whole reason I decided to take this on is because I thought I could do it myself much cheaper than a shop would charge, even with margin for error. I was quoted $400 by a very reputable place here, and just the paint alone isn’t much less than that. I’m not sure I wanna go this route now because having it painted just isn’t worth that much to me.

Any thoughts? Less expensive paints that would warrant decent results? He asked me if there was a specific reason I wanted SEM and all I could think of is how widely used it is here with good results.

yep, often when we look at all the costs, sending it out to a professional shop is a deal

 

[freedom_in_4low]

You can take my 0.02 for what it's worth, but a textured hard top to me just isn't worth the effort or expense of a legit automotive paint job. I scuffed mine with a red scotchbrite, cleaned it thoroughly with water and then acetone and painted with whatever brand of satin black rattle cans Walmart happened to have on the shelf. It's lasted 2 years without a hint of fading so far and our sun is intense here too given the elevation....though my tj is garaged when not in use so there's that.

I'll save the high dollar automotive stuff for metallics and matching to existing base/clear parts. Even then I still used the 2k clear and mixed base in rattle cans at $25 per can. The product I used on my half doors was from spraymax.