Clutch issues

[DETOUR]

Gday All
had a hard time shifting into 1st / 2nd gear taking off from parked
- driving tru town and all of a sudden lost drive all together. TC linkage all in place. Engine idles and revs , but no go.
- I been very hard on our ‘05 LJ lately and smoked the clutch more than once
- 3.73 diffs / 35 “ super swampers / low range usually off road / 6 speed standard
- has anyone ever lost the friction on their clutch due to abuse ?
- I can still feel the spring tension of the pressure plate, when depressing the clutch pedal
- I noticed hard shifting over the last couple 100 km after my last abusive driving adventure, which leads me to believe I must’ve damaged the clutch for good

much appreciate your 2 bits input

DETOUR overnout

—•|||||•—

 

[gaabbee]

Read page 12

https://jeepjamboreeusa.com/common-sense-off-road-driving/files/inc/cca77024ba.pdf
It's easier and cheaper to replace a starter motor then a clutch...you probably screwed the nsg370 too.

 

[Zorba]

Sounds like you grenaded it.

 

[cpwolf]

Just curious, but if you're thinking the clutch has lost friction, the flywheel would spin against it, there would be burn smell, wouldn't it? You burn it, gets thin, you lose ability to have the clutch engage, which means it stays turning the input shaft, so kind of the opposite. I maybe be wrong on that.

Just my .02, you're going to have to look at all of it, but I'm no expert.

 

[DWR]

Read page 12

https://jeepjamboreeusa.com/common-sense-off-road-driving/files/inc/cca77024ba.pdf
It's easier and cheaper to replace a starter motor then a clutch...you probably screwed the nsg370 too.

Brilliant! Never thought it was powerful enough to do that! I thought the clutch interlock was simply for emergency stuff (I disabled mine day1 though).

With 3.73 gears and 35” tires that thing must be a dog!

 

[pagrey]

Never had it happen or heard about a failure like that. Most of the time severe clutch failures are very noisy. Unfortunately I'd think broken input shaft or something in the transfer case but you never know. Not to mention difficulty shifting is normally problems disengaging and what you describe is the opposite.

 

[Zorba]

Never had it happen or heard about a failure like that. Most of the time severe clutch failures are very noisy. Unfortunately I'd think broken input shaft or something in the transfer case but you never know. Not to mention difficulty shifting is normally problems disengaging and what you describe is the opposite.

I had this exact same thing happen to me on an '05 Toyota Matrix at around 125K miles. In that case, I feel that the underlying cause was years of borderline clutch smoking because the engine had no low end grunt. I mean NONE, you have to rev it to develop enough power to let out the clutch - and that was on level ground! It was otherwise a pretty good car, but the zero torque below 2,000 RPM drove my wife and I nuts from day one!

So I was on the way to a dance sister's wedding, and went to downshift going up a hill and that was all she wrote. Called a tow truck, and my dance sisters. Tow truck took me and the car to the dealer, then a car load of Belly Dancers arrived, and I at least made the reception! Power of the sisterhood!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, by what your photo shows, you got muddy water in-between the flywheel/pressure plate/clutch disk. You can't be shifting gears when muddy water is half-way up inside the non-sealed clutch assembly. Once you're in muddy water keep going and don't push the clutch in which just lets mud/muddy water flow in between those components. If the engine dies, start it in 1st gear without stepping down onto the clutch pedal. That's one reason the factory included that option, the ability to start the engine without needing to step down on the clutch peda.

My clutch was still in good condition at 162k miles when I replaced it out of pure caution. It had been abused and literally smoked many times yet it was still in remarkably good condition at 162k miles when I got it out. When I compared that clutch to my new replacement clutch I was surprised by how much clutch material was still left on the old clutch I removed. It's common for the Wrangler's clutch to last >200k miles even with lots of abuse like smoking it on tough sections of trails.

 

[DWR]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, by what your photo shows, you got muddy water in-between the flywheel/pressure plate/clutch disk. You can't be shifting gears when muddy water is half-way up inside the non-sealed clutch assembly. Once you're in muddy water keep going and don't push the clutch in which just lets mud/muddy water flow in between those components. If the engine dies, start it in 1st gear without stepping down onto the clutch pedal. That's one reason the factory included that option, the ability to start the engine without needing to step down on the clutch peda.

My clutch was still in good condition at 162k miles when I replaced it out of pure caution. It had been abused and literally smoked many times yet it was still in remarkably good condition at 162k miles when I got it out. When I compared that clutch to my new replacement clutch I was surprised by how much clutch material was still left on the old clutch I removed. It's common for the Wrangler's clutch to last >200k miles even with lots of abuse like smoking it on tough sections of trails.

Is this true for the ax-15 also? Don’t shift/it’s not sealed?

Edit: shift, not shit... I don’t recommend the later

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Is this true for the ax-15 also? Don’t shift/it’s not sealed?

The clutch is completely separate from the transmission so the transmission type doesn't affect what I said above. The clutch mechanism is open from the bottom which easily lets water or mud up inside.

All transmissions are vented, but some have a long rubber hose connected to the vent to prevent water from getting inside. The top of the hose is positioned significantly higher than the transmission to keep water out.

The AX-15 is not one of those, it has a vent hole (no hose connected to it) on top of the transmission that can let water inside.

 

[alittleoff]

On one of my old Land Cruisers, the splined collar on the disc broke away from the friction plate.
So the connection between the engine and the transmission was nonexistent.
This could be your issue. My Dad help me drag it home so I could remove the trans/transfer case to find my problem. I replaced the disc and went on my way for many miles after that.

 

[DETOUR]

Just curious, but if you're thinking the clutch has lost friction, the flywheel would spin against it, there would be burn smell, wouldn't it? You burn it, gets thin, you lose ability to have the clutch engage, which means it stays turning the input shaft, so kind of the opposite. I maybe be wrong on that.

Just my .02, you're going to have to look at all of it, but I'm no expert.

Burn smell ? you got that right, smells Gross
- I’m out of commission with rotator cuff issue in my left shoulder , but one of my buddy is tearing into it as I’m writing this

more later
—•|||||•—

 

[DETOUR]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, by what your photo shows, you got muddy water in-between the flywheel/pressure plate/clutch disk. You can't be shifting gears when muddy water is half-way up inside the non-sealed clutch assembly. Once you're in muddy water keep going and don't push the clutch in which just lets mud/muddy water flow in between those components. If the engine dies, start it in 1st gear without stepping down onto the clutch pedal. That's one reason the factory included that option, the ability to start the engine without needing to step down on the clutch peda.

My clutch was still in good condition at 162k miles when I replaced it out of pure caution. It had been abused and literally smoked many times yet it was still in remarkably good condition at 162k miles when I got it out. When I compared that clutch to my new replacement clutch I was surprised by how much clutch material was still left on the old clutch I removed. It's common for the Wrangler's clutch to last >200k miles even with lots of abuse like smoking it on tough sections of trails.

Thx Jerry
Your teaching a city boy that got “detoured” by a country road
Makes perfect sense, they never taught us that ,waaaay back in trade school

 

[DETOUR]

Thx Jerry
Your teaching a city boy that got “detoured” by a country road
Makes perfect sense, they never taught us that ,waaaay back in trade school

Howdy All
Here’s the mess.
Rivets rubbing on pressure plate equals minimal friction
- Just like @Jerry Bransford suggested , DO NOT depress the clutch while crossing deep muddy waters and of course make sure your clutch/start switch is deactivated or bypassed.
As soon as Jerry mentioned that scenario it dawned on me ....
- Well ,jeepin would be boring without ...., it was Kinda embarrassing when it happened, small town ya know, most everyone knows each other and my HEEP just left me stranded as I’m exiting the only traffic circle in town during lunch hour and generating kinda bottleneck

got lots of thumbs up, laughs and people offering help
- Great crowd here in Dawson Creek / mile zero Alaska highway

Ps: one of the local towing company's offered me frequent flyer points
Jk


Safety first, avoid the highways - stay in the ditches people !
It’s a Jeep thing - they wouldn’t understand it anyways

—•|||||•—


DETOUR overnout

 

[DETOUR]

Howdy All
Here’s the mess.
Rivets rubbing on pressure plate equals minimal friction
- Just like Jerry suggested , DO NOT depress the clutch while crossing deep muddy waters and of course make sure your clutch/start switch is deactivated or bypassed.
As soon as Jerry mentioned that scenario it dawned on me ....
- Well ,jeepin would be boring without ...., it was Kinda embarrassing when it happened, small town ya know, most everyone knows each other and my HEEP just left me stranded as I’m exiting the only traffic circle in town during lunch hour and generating kinda bottleneck

got lots of thumbs up, laughs and people offering help
- Great crowd here in Dawson Creek / mile zero Alaska highway

Ps: one of the local towing company's offered me frequent flyer points
Jk


Safety first, avoid the highways - stay in the ditches people !
It’s a Jeep thing - they wouldn’t understand it anyways

—•|||||•—


DETOUR overnout

View attachment 180588

View attachment 180589

View attachment 180590

Note : picture with dog is from pre super swamper rubber

 

[DETOUR]

Note : picture with dog is from pre super swamper rubber

Made it with flying colours tru the entire long weekend Pulling our custom utility trailer , a week ago
Huge thanks to my wrench buddy “Les”, who replaced the clutch on our “DETOUR” just in time to save a great weekend mountain biking / camping

Ps:
project “ SPARKPLUG-delete” moves farther on the back burner, now that I’m recuperated from hip replacement, It’s my left shoulder rotator cuff that’s acting up. No reason to give up though, what doesn’t kill us , makes us stronger ( hopefully smarter too, lol )
- Any of us people making a living in a physical demanding job ,please strongly consider the following sayings :
- strong back and weak mind / enjoy now , pay Later.
It’s true !!!!
- work smart, not hard
- one ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of cure

have a save week Folks

DETOUR overnout

—•|||||•—