2006 TJ 4.0 Rubicon overheating issues

Piros1

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So as posted I have a 2006 TJ 4.0 with over heating issues. First I will list where it started and what I have done. It does have a low profile Warn M8000 winch.
I’ve owned the Jeep since 2014 and I think I’m the third owner. When it is hot like above 80* it has always seemed to run warmer than I think it should but seems to be worse now than ever.
do for I replaced the radiator and fan assembly with an aluminum Flex-a-lite radiator and electric fan, a new high volume water pump, multiple thermostats from 195,180,160 and none and flushed the system several times. Installed fresh coolant several times, and added purple ice all with the same issue reoccurring. Also checked compression as well as replacing the sending unit. If running off road with AC on it will eventually overheat. It seem to get up to around 214 and hold there and then it will jump up and peg out.
temperature was check with computer and thermal guns as well to be sure I wasn’t getting false readings. Not sure what to check next.

Any ideas or thoughts of what I missed. By the way I have had my company mechanic working on this as well as my self to be sure one of us were not missing something.

I read something about burping the system but with no thermostat that should not be an issue.
 
Check your radiator cap. When you get tired of it running hot put it back to stock. All that aftermarket stuff doesn't do anything to help cool your Jeep. A completely stock Jeep will run just fine on the hottest day. You probably want a 195 thermostat, anything else and the computer wont like it. These Jeeps are getting old but they aren't 350 chevys, flex-a-lite and aftermarket radiators have no place in a Jeep. Your winch is not causing you problems.
 
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It was running hot before the radiator and fan change and my old radiator actually didn’t look bad. These upgrades if you want to call them that were an attempt to eliminate the overheat issue. My plan is when I get back home is to switch out the fan to a stock or similar.

I mentioned the winch along with the mods so everyone has an idea of how my rig is equipped. I really didn’t think the winch was the issue either. I appreciate your input it helps with the diagnosis. Once I get home if I get it narrowed down I will post my progress. Hopefully I can nurse it through the next two weeks so I don’t have to cut our trip short. I’m 1500 miles from home, fortunately my Jeep is a trailer queen on the trip home.
 
The winch is not causing any problems for the cooling system. None. If you go back to a 100% factory Mopar stock cooling system your overheating issues will go away. Absolutely.

Aftermarket radiators are worse than a crapshoot, only the most expensive ones will even come close to how well the single row all aluminum core Mopar design works. 195 degree thermostat, Mopar water pump. Serpentine belt driven fan, heavy duty fan clutch.

And no, more rows in a radiator do not usually mean better cooling. In fact the TJ was originally introduced with a 2 row radiator but the design was soon changed to a 1 row radiator with better cooling characteristics.

Electric fans are a PITA. They don't cool as well and they're far more likely to fail. Seriously.

I live and wheel in the hot southwest (mostly desert) and if the factory cooling system wasn't up to it we would all be running something else. But we're not.
 
What part of the southwest are you in, just curious? I’m in AZ for a couple more weeks before heading back to MO. At this point I may have to wait until I get back home and just nurse it along being careful not to overheat it and deal with returning the cooling system back to stock. Like I said this all started before putting after market parts on. I have some lifters giving me intermittent ticking and have a set along with a new cam. I will have to pull the head so I will have it checked while it is off. The Jeep only has about 93,000 miles on it. I’m thinking in its past life it did not get the maintenance it should have and definitely not what give it. We replaced the pan gasket and oil pump before I came out here. I would done the rest if my parts would of been in at that time. My pan gasket was starting to work it’s way out and I was concerned it would fail while on the back country.
Thanks for your advice
 
If you go back to a 100% factory Mopar stock cooling system your overheating issues will go away. Absolutely.
The OP was having issues before the mods so implying just going back to OEM overheating will go away is doing a disservice.

That said I agree the aftermarket mickey mouse horseshit doesn't help but the OP has an issue(s) in the system.
It was running hot before the radiator and fan change and my old radiator actually didn’t look bad. These upgrades if you want to call them that were an attempt to eliminate the overheat issue. My plan is when I get back home is to switch out the fan to a stock or similar.

I mentioned the winch along with the mods so everyone has an idea of how my rig is equipped. I really didn’t think the winch was the issue either. I appreciate your input it helps with the diagnosis. Once I get home if I get it narrowed down I will post my progress. Hopefully I can nurse it through the next two weeks so I don’t have to cut our trip short. I’m 1500 miles from home, fortunately my Jeep is a trailer queen on the trip home.
^^^^^^
You need to be a little more specific on your over heating issue.
On the trail only? That indicates to me you are going slow, idling, back to slow, idling...etc.

Does it over heat no matter what and where? Highway...town...trail no matter.
Always eventually heating up too much..???

Are you losing any coolant whatsoever?

A quick radiator cap test you can do is look at your over flow before a cold start.
Then get it to your 214° or so. Check your overflow. It should be at a different level than your cold start.
If it's the same level as to when you started cold...your cap is junk. Now you might have other issues as well but your cap is definitely not behaving as it should.

Again though more specifics on your issues will help a great deal.

Start with your overflow observation.

Good luck.
 
Does it actually overheat or are you relying on gauges and heat guns? I mean when it over heats is it boiling and blowing steam? When you over heat your fluid evaporates under pressure and the cap releases that pressure same as a pressure cooker, How did you check the coolant temp with a thermal gun?
You can smell an overheat there is no mistaking an overheat smell.
 
The OP was having issues before the mods so implying just going back to OEM overheating will go away is doing a disservice.

That said I agree the aftermarket mickey mouse horseshit doesn't help but the OP has an issue(s) in the system.

^^^^^^
You need to be a little more specific on your over heating issue.
On the trail only? That indicates to me you are going slow, idling, back to slow, idling...etc.

Does it over heat no matter what and where? Highway...town...trail no matter.
Always eventually heating up too much..???

Are you losing any coolant whatsoever?

A quick radiator cap test you can do is look at your over flow before a cold start.
Then get it to your 214° or so. Check your overflow. It should be at a different level than your cold start.
If it's the same level as to when you started cold...your cap is junk. Now you might have other issues as well but your cap is definitely not behaving as it should.

Again though more specifics on your issues will help a great deal.

Start with your overflow observation.

Good luck.
First I will apologize for this is a long read but trying to fill in the blanks as requested and answer the questions.
I don’t drive long distance with the Jeep very often, the Jeep is primarily used to get to and from the trail and then trail use most of the day.
So for we have only made one trip of any distance from Wickenburg to Surprise and back. It did not overheat or peg the gauge during the trip but it did reach about 214 on my gauge.
Most of our trips consist of 10-15 miles out to the trails and then 20-50 or more miles off road on the trails. Most trails or fairly tame rarely anything of the technical type. Even though we are well equipped I don’t get over the top because we are out prospecting and always alone and a lot of times no cell service. Other than a trip to the one of the local stores or to grab dinner that is our trip description.
Last winter when we came out we had some heat issues heading up the mountain towards Yarnel, same problem the gauge pegged out and the computer evidently doesn’t like it the Jeep will barely run until it cools down. This has happened twice this year. Last year I thought I had a bad sending unit and or possibly a bad thermostat when this happened, I replaced both and still had issues running hotter than it should. I purchased an infrared thermometer to see if my gauge was close or way off. At the thermostat housing with the engine at 214 per my gauge I was getting a reading with the infrared very close to my gauge so I am presuming that my gauge is relatively close. Last year on our last day on the trail my AC locked up or so we thought and this made me think maybe the compressor was the issue. (The fan belt squealed and I smelled Freon.) But after returning home the AC worked normal but my engine temps were still to high for my liking. We flushed the system thoroughly including running a hot power washer through the block afterwards to flush the block. We installed a new water pump not rebuilt, still the same runs about 210-214 at home based on gauge and two different thermal heat guns.
This trip, it starts out fine locally but then after a few miles the temps climb up to 210-214 or so with or without the AC even though with AC it stays around 214 or so. When we get on the trails it stays around the 214 with or without AC. With the AC off it takes longer for the temps to reach 210 plus than with it on especially when air temps are in the 90*s.
Every time it has pegged out the gauge the AC has been on and we were running in lower gears and in tighter trails.
To answer the question regarding coolant level. So for it has never lost any and the reservoir seems to stay the same. No boil overs like you would normally expect. All seems to be the same regardless of what size thermostat I run.
Yesterday I removed the stat drained the system and flushed until clear of coolant. Poured a bottle of flush in and drove it around town for a while. Yesterday was only about 80* and the Jeep still was running 200 - 210 or so without the AC on and no stat. When running the AC it was about the same but climbed quicker. I did have windows open and heat on for a while trying to flush the heating system too. When returning to my home base I drained and flushed the system, nothing really came out except a slight tenting color of antifreeze. So at this point I feel the system is as clean as it can be made. Inside of radiator looks like new same with block as best I can tell looking into where the stat goes.
As an experiment I removed the valve in the thermostat put it back in with fresh 50/50 coolant and a bottle of Purple Ice to see how my day goes. I know these new engines don’t like it when they run to cool but so for even wide open doesn’t matter it still gets to 214.
I didn’t want to run without a stat because I know you need some restriction so the coolant can absorb the engine heat as it passes through the block that is my reason for removing the valve and putting the stat in for restriction. Will see and don’t think it is the answer.
This is not something I would normally do but I figured I would experiment with this idea sense nothing normal has worked, I do have a spare stat, gasket, and coolant if needed.
So for there has not been any noticeable coolant loss or level change in the reservoir even when the gauge spiked but I can tell you as soon as I opened the hood it was obvious that it was extremely hot. I let run at a fast idle with the AC off and the temps will start to drop them allow it to idle and cool down. I also trickled water down the radiator and it seem to bring the temps down quicker.
I plan to run by NAPA today and pick up a new radiator cap and another stat and gasket this morning. The spare I have now is a Murray from O'Rielly and their gaskets aren’t very good.
Hopefully the cap will help and I can put a proper stat back in. I called my shop back home and having my mechanic box up my fan and shroud and ship it to me today so I can put it back on if needed.
 
First I will apologize for this is a long read but trying to fill in the blanks as requested and answer the questions.
I don’t drive long distance with the Jeep very often, the Jeep is primarily used to get to and from the trail and then trail use most of the day.
So for we have only made one trip of any distance from Wickenburg to Surprise and back. It did not overheat or peg the gauge during the trip but it did reach about 214 on my gauge.
Most of our trips consist of 10-15 miles out to the trails and then 20-50 or more miles off road on the trails. Most trails or fairly tame rarely anything of the technical type. Even though we are well equipped I don’t get over the top because we are out prospecting and always alone and a lot of times no cell service. Other than a trip to the one of the local stores or to grab dinner that is our trip description.
Last winter when we came out we had some heat issues heading up the mountain towards Yarnel, same problem the gauge pegged out and the computer evidently doesn’t like it the Jeep will barely run until it cools down. This has happened twice this year. Last year I thought I had a bad sending unit and or possibly a bad thermostat when this happened, I replaced both and still had issues running hotter than it should. I purchased an infrared thermometer to see if my gauge was close or way off. At the thermostat housing with the engine at 214 per my gauge I was getting a reading with the infrared very close to my gauge so I am presuming that my gauge is relatively close. Last year on our last day on the trail my AC locked up or so we thought and this made me think maybe the compressor was the issue. (The fan belt squealed and I smelled Freon.) But after returning home the AC worked normal but my engine temps were still to high for my liking. We flushed the system thoroughly including running a hot power washer through the block afterwards to flush the block. We installed a new water pump not rebuilt, still the same runs about 210-214 at home based on gauge and two different thermal heat guns.
This trip, it starts out fine locally but then after a few miles the temps climb up to 210-214 or so with or without the AC even though with AC it stays around 214 or so. When we get on the trails it stays around the 214 with or without AC. With the AC off it takes longer for the temps to reach 210 plus than with it on especially when air temps are in the 90*s.
Every time it has pegged out the gauge the AC has been on and we were running in lower gears and in tighter trails.
To answer the question regarding coolant level. So for it has never lost any and the reservoir seems to stay the same. No boil overs like you would normally expect. All seems to be the same regardless of what size thermostat I run.
Yesterday I removed the stat drained the system and flushed until clear of coolant. Poured a bottle of flush in and drove it around town for a while. Yesterday was only about 80* and the Jeep still was running 200 - 210 or so without the AC on and no stat. When running the AC it was about the same but climbed quicker. I did have windows open and heat on for a while trying to flush the heating system too. When returning to my home base I drained and flushed the system, nothing really came out except a slight tenting color of antifreeze. So at this point I feel the system is as clean as it can be made. Inside of radiator looks like new same with block as best I can tell looking into where the stat goes.
As an experiment I removed the valve in the thermostat put it back in with fresh 50/50 coolant and a bottle of Purple Ice to see how my day goes. I know these new engines don’t like it when they run to cool but so for even wide open doesn’t matter it still gets to 214.
I didn’t want to run without a stat because I know you need some restriction so the coolant can absorb the engine heat as it passes through the block that is my reason for removing the valve and putting the stat in for restriction. Will see and don’t think it is the answer.
This is not something I would normally do but I figured I would experiment with this idea sense nothing normal has worked, I do have a spare stat, gasket, and coolant if needed.
So for there has not been any noticeable coolant loss or level change in the reservoir even when the gauge spiked but I can tell you as soon as I opened the hood it was obvious that it was extremely hot. I let run at a fast idle with the AC off and the temps will start to drop them allow it to idle and cool down. I also trickled water down the radiator and it seem to bring the temps down quicker.
I plan to run by NAPA today and pick up a new radiator cap and another stat and gasket this morning. The spare I have now is a Murray from O'Rielly and their gaskets aren’t very good.
Hopefully the cap will help and I can put a proper stat back in. I called my shop back home and having my mechanic box up my fan and shroud and ship it to me today so I can put it back on if needed.
Ok..I think I caught all that...

Let's simplify...
If you've done so...good. if not...do it.
Take note of coolant level at cold start. Get to 214 (or similar)
Immediately pull over..open hood and look at overflow tank.

Any difference in the level?
If absolutely no difference your cap isn't working correctly.

You might have another issue(s) going on but if there is no coolant movement from rad/eng to overflow tank...
If no movement to and fro ...
Get that cap replaced and retest.
 
Try this:

Better to install an Auxiliary radiator.

Here is my go to for an auxiliary radiator that will be plumbed into the heater coolant lines.

Mount it behind the front bumper or to the front grill.

I have used this core over the years on many different Jeeps, Trucks and cars that I took to Baja during the summers chasing the surf.

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Rear

1985 FORD E-350 5.8L 351cid V8 Heater Core | RockAuto

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This photo shows one mounted behind my front bumper on the FSJ with cut outs in the bumper for air flow.

On a 115f (46c) day with the AC on temp gauge never gets past mid way.

1986-e350-rear-heater-core-jpg-jpg.webp




fsj-front-jpg-jpg.webp
 
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Try this:

Better to install an Auxiliary radiator.
It's better to fix the actual problem than install a band-aid fix IMHO. The stock factory cooling system with its OE Mopar radiator has way more than enough excess cooling capacity to handle even unusually hot conditions like we get in our SoCal deserts.
 
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The OP was having issues before the mods so implying just going back to OEM overheating will go away is doing a disservice.
When I said back to stock or OEM I meant new parts. You are right to clarify, I didn't mean put the old broken stuff back in. I don't think the fan is broken, it's a hunk of metal but the radiator and clutch and other bits should probably be new.
Do you have the Cooling fan shroud installed?
I think the original post says there is an electric fan. I don't know how you'd use the stock shroud and an electric.
 
From personal experience I can tell you this. The stock fan shroud, a heavy duty fan clutch and the correct fan blade will almost always out perform any electric fan I have used...
There are some factory electric fans, from different models of cars, that work quite well though. Fitting them in our TJs can be done with a little work...
I still prefer a stock shroud/HD clutch/fan blade though...
 
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Do you have the Cooling fan shroud installed?

When it starts to overheat what happens if you turn on the heater on the high setting?
Yes there is a shroud, it is part of the flex-a-lite fan assembly. Turning on the heater doesn’t change the performance of the cooling system other than make the cabin in the Jeep extremely hot.
 
From personal experience I can tell you this. The stock fan shroud, a heavy duty fan clutch and the correct fan blade will almost always out perform any electric fan I have used...
There are some factory electric fans, from different models of cars, that work quite well though. Fitting them in our TJs can be done with a little work...
I still prefer a stock shroud/HD clutch/fan blade though...
The fan I have is part of an engineered package produced by Flex-a-lite. 3300 cfm of air. That’s a lot of air I don’t have flow rate for a stock fan.
 
The fan I have is part of an engineered package produced by Flex-a-lite. 3300 cfm of air. That’s a lot of air I don’t have flow rate for a stock fan.
I know exactly what you are talking about. Owned several e-fans including a Ford Taurus fan. Those pull like 4,000 to 4,500 cfm on high. Still not as much as an HD clutch locked in with a good fan blade and shroud...
 
I wrote a book last night explaining the system, my issues, why and what equipment I have on the Jeep so won’t go there again.
So last night as I said as an experiment I gutted the thermostat and put it back in to creat dome resistance in flow to allow the coolant to have time to absorb heat from the block. Flushed the system and replaced the coolant with fresh 50/50, installed a new radiator cap. Today on my trip out we put on about 60 miles, 30 road and 30 off road approximate. No AC on and the temps hit around 210 on the highway and 200-210 off road. When running on low range for any distance it would climb up a bit more. When the temps reached the upper temps I checked the reservoir and there was no change with the new cap. You need to read the post contributors post to understand my statements. I’m trying to answer questions.
So I called back home and had my OEM fan shroud, my OEM fan blade, and a new fan clutch shipped out to where I am staying. It will all be here Thursday and we change out and see if we have improved the situation. Beyond this it wait until I return home. If it gets here early enough it will get changed out Thursday or Friday morning.

The part that is bothering me the most is that heat is still climbing to a higher than normal level with no thermostat or even with a 160 it pegs high. Will see how new fan helps.
 
I’m not implying your present fan setup is inadequate. You said you had these issues before all the new parts were installed. I am simply saying if air flow cfm is part of your goal to assist in a remedy for the heat issue a 3,300 cfm fan isn’t the end all...
 
I wrote a book last night explaining the system, my issues, why and what equipment I have on the Jeep so won’t go there again.
So last night as I said as an experiment I gutted the thermostat and put it back in to creat dome resistance in flow to allow the coolant to have time to absorb heat from the block. Flushed the system and replaced the coolant with fresh 50/50, installed a new radiator cap. Today on my trip out we put on about 60 miles, 30 road and 30 off road approximate. No AC on and the temps hit around 210 on the highway and 200-210 off road. When running on low range for any distance it would climb up a bit more. When the temps reached the upper temps I checked the reservoir and there was no change with the new cap. You need to read the post contributors post to understand my statements. I’m trying to answer questions.
So I called back home and had my OEM fan shroud, my OEM fan blade, and a new fan clutch shipped out to where I am staying. It will all be here Thursday and we change out and see if we have improved the situation. Beyond this it wait until I return home. If it gets here early enough it will get changed out Thursday or Friday morning.

The part that is bothering me the most is that heat is still climbing to a higher than normal level with no thermostat or even with a 160 it pegs high. Will see how new fan helps.
How hot did it get after the new cap install.

#2...what brand cap did you get?