Trutrac or Powertrax no-slip

[TurboTJ]

I am somewhat confused about lockers and/or LSDs. As I understand it, the rear diff in the Rubicon is both a locker and a gear based LSD. I can say that the LSD part is fabulous on trails, regardless of how gnarly they are. I am just amazed how the rear just digs in and keeps going. I have never rock crawled (except for occasional obstacles) and therefore seldom use the lockers. Once or twice they have been very useful but to be honest I could do without them for the trails I drive. But I love the LSD.

 

[JMT]

I am somewhat confused about lockers and/or LSDs. As I understand it, the rear diff in the Rubicon is both a locker and a gear based LSD. I can say that the LSD part is fabulous on trails, regardless of how gnarly they are. I am just amazed how the rear just digs in and keeps going. I have never rock crawled (except for occasional obstacles) and therefore seldom use the lockers. Once or twice they have been very useful but to be honest I could do without them for the trails I drive. But I love the LSD.

The difference was explained by Jerry in previous posts in this thread.

I wouldn’t waste my time with LSD. Lockers rule.

 

[Weasellee]

Great thread. As always thanks for your input @Jerry Bransford

 

[sierradmax]

For an offroad rig, a full case locker in the rear and selectable up front is the way to go. However, the Truetrac for the Dana 30 comes with a 100 lb. preload from Detroit. It has a higher torque basis acting closely similar to a full case locker. I have them front and rear in my JK and have witnessed both fronts lock up on loose gravel and snow.

 

[TurboTJ]

The difference was explained by Jerry in previous posts in this thread.

I wouldn’t waste my time with LSD. Lockers rule.

My point is that the rear Rubicon dff is both An LSD and a selectable locker. Why is that not the best of both worlds?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

For an offroad rig, a full case locker in the rear and selectable up front is the way to go. However, the Truetrac for the Dana 30 comes with a 100 lb. preload from Detroit. It has a higher torque basis acting closely similar to a full case locker. I have them front and rear in my JK and have witnessed both fronts lock up on loose gravel and snow.

John Currie made a very effective video showing how it's the rear that needs to be unlocked to make tight turns, not the front. His video confirmed a tighter turn with with the rear axle being unlocked than unlocking the front. Which just says if you're going to have one selectable locker, put it in the rear.

And the Truetrac I installed into my Dana 30 many years ago was completely ineffective when offroad and it in no way even got close to being a locker. If there was more of a preload on the Truetrac in my front Dana 30 than there was on my rear Truetrac you couldn't prove it by me.

That's why I replaced both with lockers, the Truetracs were totally ineffective on any terrain that wasn't flat enough to keep all four tires on the ground.

 

[Grant Lasson]

My point is that the rear Rubicon dff is both An LSD and a selectable locker. Why is that not the best of both worlds?

It's not really the best of both worlds. It's more like the mediocre of both worlds. The LSD is a relative weak point. It also has no replacement parts that I could find. When mine broke, it locked the differential permanently. I broke it on the "Hole in the Rock" road which is 30 miles of washboard until it drops into Lake Powell.

It would be anecdotal if my experience was unique but if you search on "crash lock" I think you'll find others with the same experience.

On the positive side, the Rubicon LSD was awesome while it was working. I replaced front and rear with ARBs.

 

[98chilipepper]

@Jerry Bransford can you please send me a pm

Thanks!

 

[JMT]

My point is that the rear Rubicon dff is both An LSD and a selectable locker. Why is that not the best of both worlds?

Aware, had a Rubi for a few months once. The situations I can see an advantage to having both lsd/locker would be.

1) spotty snow, ice on road
2) damp surface

For every other situation I can think of a rear locker is better. The Rubi lsd/locker is more prone to failure than full case lockers, so most get replaced with a full locker.

 

[roverhi]

What is the rationale for a Powertrax in front and a Detroit in the rear??? Is the Detroit stronger or the Powertrax weaker?? Know the Powertrax unlocks quietly while the Detroit can be ratchety.

JB said the auto locking diffs will unlock going around a turn if you aren't heavy on the small pedal. Does that mean they will unlock if you maintain or slightly increase rpm in a turn or do you have to back off the gas completely to get them to unlock??

 

[Jeep_guy3]

What is the rationale for a Powertrax in front and a Detroit in the rear??? Is the Detroit stronger or the Powertrax weaker?? Know the Powertrax unlocks quietly while the Detroit can be ratchety.

JB said the auto locking diffs will unlock going around a turn if you aren't heavy on the small pedal. Does that mean they will unlock if you maintain or slightly increase rpm in a turn or do you have to back off the gas completely to get them to unlock??

The rationale is all about the behavior and mannerisms of the two. Powertrax locks up with the torque of the front driveshaft, so in 2wd you’ll never know it’s there. I’m 4wd it is a lot quieter and smoother, making it more friendly. Strength wise I’ve not heard of either one being weaker or stronger, I’ve had mine in for a few years and would never go back.

Cornering with the detroit rear takes a little getting used to, but as long as your not trying to power through a sharp corner you don’t notice it’s there. Parking lots are where I get all of my feedback from it, but even then I’ve learned to manage it.

 

[JMT]

What is the rationale for a Powertrax in front and a Detroit in the rear??? Is the Detroit stronger or the Powertrax weaker?? Know the Powertrax unlocks quietly while the Detroit can be ratchety.

JB said the auto locking diffs will unlock going around a turn if you aren't heavy on the small pedal. Does that mean they will unlock if you maintain or slightly increase rpm in a turn or do you have to back off the gas completely to get them to unlock??

A full case locker like the Detroit is stronger than a lunchbox, but the Powertrax is fine up front in the Dana 30. I’ve been running mine for a few years now with no issue with 33’s and just recently went to 35’s. A couple times I didn’t have it securely in 4L and something sounded weird. I disengaged firmly into 4H, reengaged 4L, and was back to butter. No problems with turning. Never popped.

 

[98chilipepper]

This may be a stupid question but when in 4wd with lockers on does it effect gearing? For example 4hi to 4lo it crawls a lot slower, so having lockers on affect crawl speed?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

This may be a stupid question but when in 4wd with lockers on does it effect gearing? For example 4hi to 4lo it crawls a lot slower, so having lockers on affect crawl speed?

Speeds all remain exactly the same with or without lockers.

 

[98chilipepper]

Speeds all remain exactly the same with or without lockers.

Thank you sir

 

[Weasellee]

I currently am running a powertrax no slip in the rear and it’s great. I would prefer selectable in rear but that will come with gearing upgrades. For the front I’m about to pull the trigger for a Powertrax but wonder if the no slip is worth the additional cost for the front. Should i just run the Powertrax lock rite up front? What’s the benefit of the No-Slip up front?? @Jerry Bransford ? Thanks

 

[Irun]

It's not really the best of both worlds. It's more like the mediocre of both worlds. The LSD is a relative weak point. It also has no replacement parts that I could find. When mine broke, it locked the differential permanently. I broke it on the "Hole in the Rock" road which is 30 miles of washboard until it drops into Lake Powell.

It would be anecdotal if my experience was unique but if you search on "crash lock" I think you'll find others with the same experience.

On the positive side, the Rubicon LSD was awesome while it was working. I replaced front and rear with ARBs.

This a real thing. I've seen two explode, including one of my own. Although I replaced it with another stock unit, I still have the pieces as a reminder to always run my rear locker when off-road.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I currently am running a powertrax no slip in the rear and it’s great. I would prefer selectable in rear but that will come with gearing upgrades. For the front I’m about to pull the trigger for a Powertrax but wonder if the no slip is worth the additional cost for the front. Should i just run the Powertrax lock rite up front? What’s the benefit of the No-Slip up front?? @Jerry Bransford ? Thanks

The most noticeable benefit to a No-Slip in front is that it won't ratchet or click when making slow-speed turns, like in a parking lot. In 2wd it's pretty invisible.

 

[MountaineerTom]

I've been thinking about a Powertrax no-slip for my D-30 for a while but I remember a member here had a couple grenade on him. If I recall, it was a manufacturing flaw. I think that was a year or two ago though.

Has anyone heard of any more recent problems with them?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I've been thinking about a Powertrax no-slip for my D-30 for a while but I remember a member here had a couple grenade on him. If I recall, it was a manufacturing flaw. I think that was a year or two ago though.

Has anyone heard of any more recent problems with them?

So rare that I've never heard of that problem with a No-Slip. I wonder if the person installing the No-Slip with two failures afterward simply botched up the installation.