Re-gearing for 35s (need some build advice)

RockyMountain_TJ

RockyMountain_TJ

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Joined
Mar 2, 2023
Messages
44
Location
Littleton, CO
Hey there this is my first of hopefully many posts on this forum. I have lurked forever and finally decided to create an account. I have been doing a lot of planning so I am sorry in advance if this is a ramble.

I have had my jeep since about 2010 it was my first vehicle (2000 Wrangler Sport 4.0L Manual Trans Dana 30/35, I wish I would've done my research and looked for a Rubicon or LJ) and I am finally getting around to actually getting some fun out of it now that I live in Colorado and it's not my daily driver. I had the frame repaired a year ago due to mid-west rust and it has been garage kept for about 5 years. I would like to do almost all of the work on my own because I have the time and I want to know my rig inside and out but I need some advice from the seasoned veterans on this site. I am kind of on a budget and like to do things in sizeable chunks when possible. The inspiration for my build is the one of the rigs Rokmen made several years back, Niblet Rising. Its a low CoG build with 37's, Dana 44's, RCV fronts, highline fenders, 2.5 in lift and 1 inch body lift.

Short Term Goal (I'm more focused on the important things instead of bumpers right now)
35's KM3 (because Costco sells them and 5 year warranty is nice)
Walker Evans Racing Beadlock Wheels (I am looking for the last wheel I will need to buy and I have heard great things about these)
Highline front fenders (possibly MetalCloak, I'll need the clearance but I am not a fan of the flat top HighLine Fenders, open to suggestions)
Re-gear to 4.88? (I think this is what I want but open to suggestions)
Rear Manual cable OX Locker (I know it might be controversial but I think the manual cable locker with the emergency plug is really cool)
Chromoly Front Shafts (27 spline or 30 spline not sure which could save money by keeping 27 fronts?)
Chromoly Rear Shafts (30 spline)
Tummy Tuck Skid
SYE Kit
Double Cardan Drive Shaft
Adjustable Control Arms (probably MetalCloak just because of price, open to suggestions)

Current Setup (if I didn't list it, it's probably stock)
32's old style KO2 (the sidewall is starting to split radially so my days are numbered)
2.5" HD Old Man Emu Shocks, springs and steering dampener
1" Rokmen Offroad Body Lift
M.O.R.E. 1" Motor Mount Lift
Rokmen Offroad Gas Tank Skid
'Custom' Brace Face Front Bumper (previous owner. I know, it's horrible)
'Custom' Rear Bumper (not nearly as bad as the front)
Stock Gearing (3.73 I assume?)
Dodge Durango steering gearbox
New upper and lower steering shaft (old one was siezed and wouldn't telescope leading to dangerous steering conditions and dead spots while turning)
1" steering shaft riser
No sway bar right now

Situation
I am currently running KO2 32's and they are well past their lifetime, the tread is fine but the sidewall is beginning to crack in a circle along the radius of the entire tire and I get worried that one day on the trail they will just give out with me airing down to trail pressure. That being said, I don't want to dump money into a brand new set of 32's when I know very soon I will want 35's... After reading so much I think I have an understanding on everything that goes along with 35's on a Dana 30/35 but I just need some help cutting it into chunks if possible. I also don't want to swap in TJ Rubicon Dana 44's because 1, they're so expensive and 2, If I'm going to swap axles I am going to go big to 1tons (no sense in doing it twice). But please tell me what you think and let me know what I missed!

TLDR
I have crap 32's that are way past their lifespan, I want 35's and a rear adjustable locker. Is there a good way for me to upgrade in chunks doing most/some of the work myself (re-gearing myself seems daunting but it has peaked my interest) while still beefing up my Jeep to handle 35's? Or is this going to be a take it to the shop with $5,000 to re-gear and everything else hinges on that type of deal.
 
UsefulChewtoy said:
Hey there this is my first of hopefully many posts on this forum. I have lurked forever and finally decided to create an account. I have been doing a lot of planning so I am sorry in advance if this is a ramble.

I have had my jeep since about 2010 it was my first vehicle (2000 Wrangler Sport 4.0L Manual Trans Dana 30/35, I wish I would've done my research and looked for a Rubicon or LJ) and I am finally getting around to actually getting some fun out of it now that I live in Colorado and it's not my daily driver. I had the frame repaired a year ago due to mid-west rust and it has been garage kept for about 5 years. I would like to do almost all of the work on my own because I have the time and I want to know my rig inside and out but I need some advice from the seasoned veterans on this site. I am kind of on a budget and like to do things in sizeable chunks when possible. The inspiration for my build is the one of the rigs Rokmen made several years back, Niblet Rising. Its a low CoG build with 37's, Dana 44's, RCV fronts, highline fenders, 2.5 in lift and 1 inch body lift.

Short Term Goal (I'm more focused on the important things instead of bumpers right now)
35's KM3 (because Costco sells them and 5 year warranty is nice)
Walker Evans Racing Beadlock Wheels (I am looking for the last wheel I will need to buy and I have heard great things about these)
Highline front fenders (possibly MetalCloak, I'll need the clearance but I am not a fan of the flat top HighLine Fenders, open to suggestions)
Re-gear to 4.88? (I think this is what I want but open to suggestions)
Rear Manual cable OX Locker (I know it might be controversial but I think the manual cable locker with the emergency plug is really cool)
Chromoly Front Shafts (27 spline or 30 spline not sure which could save money by keeping 27 fronts?)
Chromoly Rear Shafts (30 spline)
Tummy Tuck Skid
SYE Kit
Double Cardan Drive Shaft
Adjustable Control Arms (probably MetalCloak just because of price, open to suggestions)

Current Setup (if I didn't list it, it's probably stock)
32's old style KO2 (the sidewall is starting to split radially so my days are numbered)
2.5" HD Old Man Emu Shocks, springs and steering dampener
1" Rokmen Offroad Body Lift
M.O.R.E. 1" Motor Mount Lift
Rokmen Offroad Gas Tank Skid
'Custom' Brace Face Front Bumper (previous owner. I know, it's horrible)
'Custom' Rear Bumper (not nearly as bad as the front)
Stock Gearing (3.73 I assume?)
Dodge Durango steering gearbox
New upper and lower steering shaft (old one was siezed and wouldn't telescope leading to dangerous steering conditions and dead spots while turning)
1" steering shaft riser
No sway bar right now

Situation
I am currently running KO2 32's and they are well past their lifetime, the tread is fine but the sidewall is beginning to crack in a circle along the radius of the entire tire and I get worried that one day on the trail they will just give out with me airing down to trail pressure. That being said, I don't want to dump money into a brand new set of 32's when I know very soon I will want 35's... After reading so much I think I have an understanding on everything that goes along with 35's on a Dana 30/35 but I just need some help cutting it into chunks if possible. I also don't want to swap in TJ Rubicon Dana 44's because 1, they're so expensive and 2, If I'm going to swap axles I am going to go big to 1tons (no sense in doing it twice). But please tell me what you think and let me know what I missed!

TLDR
I have crap 32's that are way past their lifespan, I want 35's and a rear adjustable locker. Is there a good way for me to upgrade in chunks doing most/some of the work myself (re-gearing myself seems daunting but it has peaked my interest) while still beefing up my Jeep to handle 35's? Or is this going to be a take it to the shop with $5,000 to re-gear and everything else hinges on that type of deal.
Click to expand...

Welcome!
Tom Hanks Hello GIF
 
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What is the intended use for your rig upon completion? Reason I ask is that many of our suggestions will be based on the type of off-roading.

What are your plans for the drag link and tie rod? OEM isn’t going to survive long if you plan to off-road in rocky terrain. I also didn’t see any mention of a front locker. Consider a lunchbox locker and 27 spline inner/outer chromoly axle shafts.

I would avoid the single adjustable Metal Cloak control arms. Single adjustable control arms are a hassle to adjust so I’d recommend double adjustable such as what is offered by Savvy Off-road.

Personally, I would complete the suspension, steering, and fender upgrades first then have the tires/wheels installed. You can install a lunchbox locker yourself along with the chromoly front shafts to save in labor. Final step would be having the rig regeared and rear locker/shafts installed.
 
It appears you understand your stock Dana 35 is not strong enough for 35's. For most other axles chromoly (like 4340 or 4140) would be the right choice but not for the Dana 35. Chromoly is the wrong choice as it's not hardened sufficiently on the surface to withstand the Dana 35's raceless outer shaft roller bearings that ride on its surface. These two photos show 1) what happens to chromoly axle shaft inside a Dana 35 and 2) what the Dana 35's raceless outer bearing looks like. It has no inner race.

Dana 35 bearing worn shaft.png


Dana 35 Raceless Outer Bearing.JPG


For a Dana 35 and 35" tires you want shafts that are made with 1541H steel which has the surface hardening to withstand the roller bearings, above, riding on it. They are more than up to 35" tires, a locker, and trails too tough for 99.99% of offroaders. 1541H 30 spline shafts come in Super 35 kits like at https://www.revolutiongear.com/prod..._tj_cherokee_xj_30_spline_upgrade_super35_kit

With that you select a locker like a Detroit Locker (an automatic) or a selectable like an Eaton E-Locker or ARB Air Locker which is a little more expensive than the E-Locker due to it also requiring a compressor.

And having followed Ox since they first came out and met and talked with their founder when I liked the idea, I have not been a fan of Ox Lockers and their mechanisms in many years. Even with that bolt you can use to lock them if something breaks. To me that's superfluous and not something I see any real value in or need for. :)
 
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Duck Doctor said:
What is the intended use for your rig upon completion? Reason I ask is that many of our suggestions will be based on the type of off-roading.

What are your plans for the drag link and tie rod? OEM isn’t going to survive long if you plan to off-road in rocky terrain. I also didn’t see any mention of a front locker. Consider a lunchbox locker and 27 spline inner/outer chromoly axle shafts.

I would avoid the single adjustable Metal Cloak control arms. Single adjustable control arms are a hassle to adjust so I’d recommend double adjustable such as what is offered by Savvy Off-road.

Personally, I would complete the suspension, steering, and fender upgrades first then have the tires/wheels installed. You can install a lunchbox locker yourself along with the chromoly front shafts to save in labor. Final step would be having the rig regeared and rear locker/shafts installed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response!

I go wheeling with my buddies who all have various models of Toyota's but with these initial upgrades I want to get into rock crawling and the many difficult trails in Colorado.

For the front steering I was looking into a couple different options, I have seen the ZJ swap discussed a lot on here and my other option would be to just go with Currie and just forget about it. I am also planning on doing a ball joint delete, but I want to look into that a bit more before I pull the trigger. Do you think 27 spline is okay up front? Or should I jump to 30? It didn't seem like there was a price difference.

I will check out Savvy! Thanks I appreciate the response!
 
UsefulChewtoy said:
Thanks for the response!

I go wheeling with my buddies who all have various models of Toyota's but with these initial upgrades I want to get into rock crawling and the many difficult trails in Colorado.

For the front steering I was looking into a couple different options, I have seen the ZJ swap discussed a lot on here and my other option would be to just go with Currie and just forget about it. I am also planning on doing a ball joint delete, but I want to look into that a bit more before I pull the trigger. Do you think 27 spline is okay up front? Or should I jump to 30? It didn't seem like there was a price difference.

I will check out Savvy! Thanks I appreciate the response!
Click to expand...

I always run 27 spline outer shafts up front in order to retain the stock closed unit bearings. I’ve use 27 spline inners and 30 spline inners. No issues with either setup. My rigs are setup for the Rubicon trail so the wheeling is likely similar to what you will experience in CO.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
It appears you understand your stock Dana 35 is not strong enough for 35's. For most other axles chromoly (like 4340 or 4140) would be the right choice but not for the Dana 35. Chromoly is the wrong choice as it's not hardened sufficiently on the surface to withstand the Dana 35's raceless outer shaft roller bearings that ride on its surface. These two photos show 1) what happens to chromoly axle shaft inside a Dana 35 and 2) what the Dana 35's raceless outer bearing looks like. It has no inner race.

View attachment 438656

View attachment 438657

For a Dana 35 and 35" tires you want shafts that are made with 1541H steel which has the surface hardening to withstand the roller bearings, above, riding on it. They are more than up to 35" tires, a locker, and trails too tough for 99.99% of offroaders. 1541H 30 spline shafts come in Super 35 kits like at https://www.revolutiongear.com/prod..._tj_cherokee_xj_30_spline_upgrade_super35_kit

With that you select a locker like a Detroit Locker (an automatic) or a selectable like an Eaton E-Locker or ARB Air Locker which is a little more expensive than the E-Locker due to it also requiring a compressor.

And having followed Ox since they first came out and met and talked with their founder when I liked the idea, I have not been a fan of Ox Lockers and their mechanisms in many years. Even with that bolt you can use to lock them if something breaks. To me that's superfluous and not something I see any real value in or need for. :)
Click to expand...

Really good info, I am glad I didn't pull the trigger on chromoly rears quite yet. how about front Dana 30? I saw in another thread you, Chris, or Mr.Blaine reccomneded someone stay with 27 spline in the front over 30 spline. What do you think with 35's?

Thanks!
 
UsefulChewtoy said:
Really good info, I am glad I didn't pull the trigger on chromoly rears quite yet. how about front Dana 30? I saw in another thread you, Chris, or Mr.Blaine reccomneded someone stay with 27 spline in the front over 30 spline. What do you think with 35's?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
27 or 30 spline chromoly shafts up front are fine for a front axle with 35's and a locker. I ran 27 spline chromoly shafts in the front of my previous TJ with 35's and a locker without problem. Others like mrblaine recommend 30 spline inner chromoly shafts up front but you need to make sure they come with 27 spline outer shafts so they fit your 27 spline unit bearing hubs.

I'd go with the less expensive imported Discovery Dana 30 shafts which are 4340 Chromoly from www.revolutiongear.com
 
Metalcloak does not offer a highline fender. And they are ugly.
 
A little update on what has happened so far.

The 35in KM3's are on so now I am committed to the DIY axle work and the pile of supporting mods in my living room is slowly growing and annoying my wife.
Currie HD Steering Kit
New Ball Joints
Core 4x4 Adjustable Front and Rear Trackbars
Savvy Adjustable Control arms

I am about to order the 5.13 front and rear ring and pinion and install kits but I have a couple of questions about bearing size...

The 30 Spline locker in the rear, will this required a special 30 spline Master gear install kit? Or will a standard Dana 35 Master Install kit be fine?

The front Dana 30 re-gear will also require a different carrier to accommodate the jump from 3.07 to 5.13, will this also require a different from standard Dana 30 Master Install kit?
 
UsefulChewtoy said:
A little update on what has happened so far.

The 35in KM3's are on so now I am committed to the DIY axle work and the pile of supporting mods in my living room is slowly growing and annoying my wife.
Currie HD Steering Kit
New Ball Joints
Core 4x4 Adjustable Front and Rear Trackbars
Savvy Adjustable Control arms

I am about to order the 5.13 front and rear ring and pinion and install kits but I have a couple of questions about bearing size...

The 30 Spline locker in the rear, will this required a special 30 spline Master gear install kit? Or will a standard Dana 35 Master Install kit be fine?

The front Dana 30 re-gear will also require a different carrier to accommodate the jump from 3.07 to 5.13, will this also require a different from standard Dana 30 Master Install kit?
Click to expand...

You installed a 30 spline Super 35 kit into your Dana 35? If so yes you'll need larger carrier bearings in the rear. If you're still using 27 spline shafts in the front standard bearings in a master install kit will work.
 
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@UsefulChewtoy there's several of us from Colorado in here. Pretty sure most of us that are wheeling are on 35's. There's only a handful of trails I wont attempt and that just because I don't want the body damage not because of capabilities. I'm geared to 5.13 and very happy with that. Just saw a rear 44 for sale on FB marketplace. They come up fairly common.
 
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UsefulChewtoy said:
Hey there this is my first of hopefully many posts on this forum. I have lurked forever and finally decided to create an account. I have been doing a lot of planning so I am sorry in advance if this is a ramble.

I have had my jeep since about 2010 it was my first vehicle (2000 Wrangler Sport 4.0L Manual Trans Dana 30/35, I wish I would've done my research and looked for a Rubicon or LJ) and I am finally getting around to actually getting some fun out of it now that I live in Colorado and it's not my daily driver. I had the frame repaired a year ago due to mid-west rust and it has been garage kept for about 5 years. I would like to do almost all of the work on my own because I have the time and I want to know my rig inside and out but I need some advice from the seasoned veterans on this site. I am kind of on a budget and like to do things in sizeable chunks when possible. The inspiration for my build is the one of the rigs Rokmen made several years back, Niblet Rising. Its a low CoG build with 37's, Dana 44's, RCV fronts, highline fenders, 2.5 in lift and 1 inch body lift.

Short Term Goal (I'm more focused on the important things instead of bumpers right now)
35's KM3 (because Costco sells them and 5 year warranty is nice)
Walker Evans Racing Beadlock Wheels (I am looking for the last wheel I will need to buy and I have heard great things about these)
Highline front fenders (possibly MetalCloak, I'll need the clearance but I am not a fan of the flat top HighLine Fenders, open to suggestions)
Re-gear to 4.88? (I think this is what I want but open to suggestions)
Rear Manual cable OX Locker (I know it might be controversial but I think the manual cable locker with the emergency plug is really cool)
Chromoly Front Shafts (27 spline or 30 spline not sure which could save money by keeping 27 fronts?)
Chromoly Rear Shafts (30 spline)
Tummy Tuck Skid
SYE Kit
Double Cardan Drive Shaft
Adjustable Control Arms (probably MetalCloak just because of price, open to suggestions)

Current Setup (if I didn't list it, it's probably stock)
32's old style KO2 (the sidewall is starting to split radially so my days are numbered)
2.5" HD Old Man Emu Shocks, springs and steering dampener
1" Rokmen Offroad Body Lift
M.O.R.E. 1" Motor Mount Lift
Rokmen Offroad Gas Tank Skid
'Custom' Brace Face Front Bumper (previous owner. I know, it's horrible)
'Custom' Rear Bumper (not nearly as bad as the front)
Stock Gearing (3.73 I assume?)
Dodge Durango steering gearbox
New upper and lower steering shaft (old one was siezed and wouldn't telescope leading to dangerous steering conditions and dead spots while turning)
1" steering shaft riser
No sway bar right now

Situation
I am currently running KO2 32's and they are well past their lifetime, the tread is fine but the sidewall is beginning to crack in a circle along the radius of the entire tire and I get worried that one day on the trail they will just give out with me airing down to trail pressure. That being said, I don't want to dump money into a brand new set of 32's when I know very soon I will want 35's... After reading so much I think I have an understanding on everything that goes along with 35's on a Dana 30/35 but I just need some help cutting it into chunks if possible. I also don't want to swap in TJ Rubicon Dana 44's because 1, they're so expensive and 2, If I'm going to swap axles I am going to go big to 1tons (no sense in doing it twice). But please tell me what you think and let me know what I missed!

TLDR
I have crap 32's that are way past their lifespan, I want 35's and a rear adjustable locker. Is there a good way for me to upgrade in chunks doing most/some of the work myself (re-gearing myself seems daunting but it has peaked my interest) while still beefing up my Jeep to handle 35's? Or is this going to be a take it to the shop with $5,000 to re-gear and everything else hinges on that type of deal.
Click to expand...

Everything’s fine except…
- MC doesn’t make a highline fender. The arched ones are uglier than the Overlines.
- what transmission do you have? That will affect what gear ratio you want
- no on the OX locker. It’s not cool.
- MC arms are a glorified rubber bushings.
 
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JMT said:
Everything’s fine except…
- MC doesn’t make a highline fender. The arched ones are uglier than the Overlines.
- what transmission do you have? That will affect what gear ratio you want
- no on the OX locker. It’s not cool.
- MC arms are a glorified rubber bushings.
Click to expand...

Yeah I guess this parts list is a little dated.

I went with Motobilts old style hi line front fenders. Snapped them up while they were clearing inventory for cheap to make way for their new aluminum design. They’re sitting the in the basement now. As for control arms I went with savvy adjustable all the way around and core 4x4 Crawl adjustable trackbars.

with a 4L inline 6 and a 5 speed manual I’m going to gear to 5.13. 3.07 to 5.13 should be life changing but my only issue now is trying to find the correct sized carrier bearings for that ‘larger’ carrier (upper end of the carrier break).
 
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inkedrose said:
@UsefulChewtoy there's several of us from Colorado in here. Pretty sure most of us that are wheeling are on 35's. There's only a handful of trails I wont attempt and that just because I don't want the body damage not because of capabilities. I'm geared to 5.13 and very happy with that. Just saw a rear 44 for sale on FB marketplace. They come up fairly common.
Click to expand...

Man the only 44s I can find on marketplace are either really bad shape 44s or overpriced 44s from grand junction getting listed in Denver by parts dealers.
 
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