Just read through all of this. Was coming along pretty good. Found his Facebook and it looks like he got it done and was at least doing some snow wheeling in it this past winter and spring?
Project 1-tons and 40s
- Thread starter Motorstroker
- Start date
I'd like to know what his final width and wheelbase is, and how well it works. Looking to do something similar with my LJ in Washington.
I know some will disagree with me but a WB of much more than 100-105" & a outside tire width of mores than 76-80" is too wide and long for 90% of the trails in Washington. Unfortunately a lot of the trails have been illegally widened to fit the larger vehicles being produced now.
What are you wanting to do with your Jeep? Are you interested in running the trails in central WA or Elbe or?
I live near Tahuya, and have only gone there and Walker Valley, and once to Moon Rocks. I'd like to go to Reiter, Elbe, and Naches. I also go to Moab every other year, and would like to do most of California, Colorado, and.tje rest of Utah.
I keep breaking my dana 30 (Moab) so I need to upgrade that, and being an LJ with a 32 gallon fuel tank, my departure angle kinda sucks. So my guess is to go with the biggest tire I can, while keeping the factory wheelbase, and 76ish width on the appropriate axle. Also high lines.
I recently saw someone in Arizona with metalcloaks fenders that they modified to be actual high lines, so I'm going to look into that as well.
Jeep West just outside Portland modifies the Met Cloak fenders to be highlines. I've posted pictures on here before and they've got pictures on FB about it.
The trails in Naches if you get too long of a WB you'll be making 6 point or more turns on some of the trails.
Going to Dana 60 axles unless you have them custom build are all 70" wide which pushes your width close to 80" or more. I'm 63" WMS with spacers and 3.5" BS & I was 77or 78" wide with 13.50 wide tires. It's always a fight to try and come up with a vehicle that works in more than one place and you have to come up with some concessions you'll make. Many don't agree with the way I built mine but we'll see soon I hope if it works or not.
Measured my tires again last night and I was off on my width. Outside of tire to outside of tire I'm @ 82" now. My axle is a 1977 Ford HP44 that I narrowed to be Wagoneer width which is approximately 61.5" WMS. Then I have 1.5" spacers so I'm 63.5" WMS with them. I have 17x9 Spyderlock rims with 3.5" back spacing and 38x13.5x17 Mickey Thompson Baja Pro XS tires.
With my old setup I was running recentered Hummer rims that were 16.5x9 and about 4.25" backspacing with 38x12.5x16.5 TSL SX tires and my outside of tire to outside of tire was 75" with them.
I won't be able to tell you what the differences are until I get my engine fixed and can finally get this new build out on the trail. But I am a little worried about it being so wide.
With my old setup I was running recentered Hummer rims that were 16.5x9 and about 4.25" backspacing with 38x12.5x16.5 TSL SX tires and my outside of tire to outside of tire was 75" with them.
I won't be able to tell you what the differences are until I get my engine fixed and can finally get this new build out on the trail. But I am a little worried about it being so wide.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
I have been looking at 05+ front axles and width numbers are all over the place. I believe they are 72" wms to wms. I'm thinking that cutting 5" off the passenger axle tube and welding the C back on. That would fix the length issue and move the pumpkin 2.5" towards the center. If you are going to use a 14 bolt it would give you the same width on both axles, 67" wms to wms. It would possibly need a custom axle, but there might be an off the shelf axle that would fit since there are so many iterations of the front Dana 60.
I should have said 70" or more. At 67" IMO or for where I wheel unless I was to run Hummv rims with 7"ish back spacing that is just too wide. For me 65" is max width and I'd like 63".
What size tire are you wanting to run? If it's 39" or 38" or 37" a old school HP44 can be built easily to handle them.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
Since it's been 8+ years since I've been on any trails I don't know. My guess is they stick to the trails they can fit on OR they do like what happened in the late 80's early 90's where everyone just started widening trails to fit their rigs. The USFS used to have a road construction guidelines for the PNW with the max trail width of 75" but then amended it to 80". I don't know what it is currently.
When the JK came out there were trails up here they wouldn't fit on. When I went on the first trail ride after buying my TJ in 2002 the guys I went with took me on a OLD trail and I got wedged between two trees. It was how I got my first dent, I caved in the drivers side door. I've been able to knock some of it out but not all of it.
I just looked into them; looks like they do good stuff, thanks for the suggestion! Not sure if I'll do highline metalcloaks for removable flares, or highline factory flares like AEV. I haven't done much on here lately, it seems like I get more criticism than answers lately.
I don't see getting more than 110" max, but sticking at 103" for now.
My axle choices are either JK/JL Rubicon 44s, East Coast Gear 489s, ECG/Currie 60s, or used 60s. The 44s will be about 65" WMS regardless where they come from, and the 60s will either be custom or cut down to 65-69". Assuming you had 9" wheels I'd think you were at 78.5", or on 8" wheels you'd be 1" less.
I've been to Moab 3 times, and only done a handful of Washington trails, as well as some Arizona ones. I would agree with you; no one size will work everywhere. It's hard to have a build narrow enough to fit between trees, but wide enough to handle large rocks.
My math says you should be at 80" wide now; not sure where the other 2" comes from. Maybe the tires bulging out? Your Jeep looks great, just a touch too wide I think. What size are your flares? I was interested in using metalcloak fenders but making a custom flare that actually stays 8" wide all of the way down. Just not sure how 8" would look.
Your second photo looks really narrow, but that may just be the angle. Is the suspension decompressed? Looks like you have a lot of room. How did it handle at that overall width on and off the road? I have 60.5 wms, 12.5 tires, 8 wheels with 3.75 backspacing, so I SHOULD be at 73.5, and while I feel okay on/off road, sometimes when I'm off camber it feels a bit sketchy. Any issues at that width with the trails in Washington?
My Axle has been busted for nearly a year, so I haven't wheeled up here since then. I never remember being unable to fit through any trails up here, but maybe 5 more inches would change that.
Deciding on width is a combination of axle WMS, tire size, and flare width. I'm running stock width axles and 35s at the moment, and don't have too much trouble navigating trails (except when LJ length comes into play). I probably wouldn't want to go wider axles and stay on 35s.
I wheel tighter trails than most, but probably not Naches-tight like Rick mentioned. From what I've seen so far, something like a 65" WMS on a 37/38" and a narrow TJ/LJ body does pretty well.
I wheel tighter trails than most, but probably not Naches-tight like Rick mentioned. From what I've seen so far, something like a 65" WMS on a 37/38" and a narrow TJ/LJ body does pretty well.
I'm probably about the same as you; 60.5 wms, 35x12.5 tires, 8" wheels with 3.75" backspacing. Should be about 73.5" overall. I've never had issues in Washington, but in Moab it gets a bit squirrely when I'm off camber, so I would hoping to go up to 76" or so with 37s.
I'll probably end up going that way; 65 wms, 76" overall on 37s. Just wondering if I can keep the door open for 39s if I want to someday.
Looks like being sub 80 is ideal for Washington.
My 2 cents is this:
103" is a good wheelbase for 37s/38s. 40s could use more wheelbase, but that leads to a worse breakover angle and maneuverability.
JK/JL 44s can be a steal if you can get working factory lockers and the gears you want already. They are also a huge rabbit hole in terms of upgrades. Junkyard 60s are wide and have low-hanging diffs. They too are a rabbit hole (check out DirtLifestyle's video on a cost breakdown of building JY axles vs buying prebuilt axles, you will be surprised).
Aftermarket axles can be custom-built to your specs (WMS, outers gear/locker choice, etc). Some are better than others (ex. Currie semi float 60 has more diff clearance than a factory Rubicon 44). But these axles are $$$.
This is just my thoughts, worth exactly what you paid for it.
If you hang on around here long enough you'll get past the negativity and see the good information. There is a large dislike of Metal Cloak here also so be prepared for that. It really is worth sticking around. The wealth of information far outweighs the crap.
Figure that out first before you start doing any major work.
I have 9" wheel & 1" or 1.5" spacers. I need to check again since I don't remember.
My feelings for this is that you build for where you live and will be doing most of your wheeling and then just wheel within your build when going to other places. I've never felt tippy but I can manipulate my suspension and shift my body to the high side. I don't have coil springs or coilovers instead I have air springs.
I've got their 8" flares because I wanted to try and cover my tires as much as possible for the times I did drive it on the street. Yes those Baja Pro XS tires have a pretty big bulge. I'll try to get something on the tires so I can get a good measurement. My front axle is Waggy width.
There are some tighter trails in the Naches & Rimrock area where a TJ body barely fits between the trees. The one thing is that I'm a huge believer in staying on the actual trail. I don't do bypasses around these tight spots. You can see where people have to fit their larger rigs thru some spots but this is what also gets trails closed.
The Rattllesnake trail has a max width of 75" and I think a WB restriction of 100". But within 3 months of it being reopened people had gone in and cut out the tight turns,
Why do you keep breaking your Dana 30? What are you breaking? I've seen Dana 30's on 36" TSL tires live behind a CJ with a V-8.
And if you hang around longer enougher, you might realize there are technical and defendable reasons why certain things like Metalcloak is dishonest crap, thanks to the wealth of information here.
An example of this valuable wealth of information is an understanding of the importance of steering axis inclination, and how to select an axle width and wheel backspacing to avoid bad steering and ruining ball joints. All of which is based on defendable tech, and not simply a baseless attack founded on indiscriminate negativity.
We all have our likes & dislikes... I happen to like my Metal Cloak products. We ALL know how you feel about them....
Thanks for your useful input...
We all have our likes & dislikes... I happen to like my Metal Cloak products. We ALL know how you feel about them....
Thanks for your useful input...
Defendable tech is valuable for understanding. We know you feel differently about that and will go out of your way to avoid it.