Dangerous steering

Babygools99

Babygools99

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Messages
285
Location
Conroe, TX, United States
So, i've been fighting a really violent unpredictable wandering steering issue with my jeep for months now. With my steering wheel straight driving down the highway it will seem to go whatever direction it sees fit. If i turn the steering wheel ever so slightly it will immediately violently dart the direction i corrected it too and then the process continues until im going slow enough to somewhat straihhten it out. It had never had death wobble, and i've had it on an allignment machine 4 times with the numbers coming out great.
My jeep has a 3" lift, running 33x12.50x15s and a DPA, but here are the things that i have replaced:


-My rear axle was bad so i did an artec swap kit on an 8.8, running the stock track bar on the back with new bushings. I am running stock control arms to this axle as well but the bushings seem to be okay

-Front Upper and Lower Adj. CA's to sort out some issues with the front axle having negative caster and replace worn out bushings.
-new steering box to replace my leaking/worn out stock one
-new steering linkage with brand new ends, and new steering stabilizer
-new ball joints uppers and lowers
-new shocks all the way around.
-running tires at 26 psi on load range C BFG KM2's

Violent steering still hasn't resolved itself even after putting it on an allignment machine and getting back good numbers.

All of my bearings in the axle and my hub seem to have no movement in the front or back axles when i've checked.

The only thing i havent replaced are the sway bar end links on the front and the bushings, which seem to be okay. Any ideas or similar problems anyone?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
I was running MT degan 38 in 32x11.5-15 and when I changed to the cooper 33x12.5-15 load range c noticed a little more float and darting.. on a recient trip I aired down the new tires to 28# to smoth out the fire road bumps and when back on the road my float and darting was annoying, so I aired back up to 30# for the highway and the ride was actually great, just not as soft on the bumps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Babygools99
1515art said:
I was running MT degan 38 in 32x11.5-15 and when I changed to the cooper 33x12.5-15 load range c noticed a little more float and darting.. on a recient trip I aired down the new tires to 28# to smoth out the fire road bumps and when back on the road my float and darting was annoying, so I aired back up to 30# for the highway and the ride was actually great, just not as soft on the bumps.
Click to expand...
Ive ran a few different tires with different load ranges at different pressures and the problem is still there. I only wish it would have been that simple for me lol!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Sounds like a bad steering box. If you confirm it's bad and decide to replace it, make sure NOT to use a Cardone brand steering box. Cardone has earned a reputation for shoddy rebuilds which some feel are little more than being cleaned & repainted. You haven't included your model year, just know that the steering box's mounting bolt pattern is different between 1997-2002 and 2003-2006 TJs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KCsTJ, Babygools99 and 1515art
i was having issues with my jeep dog tracking and wanting to spin anytime things got greasy when I first got it. New control arm mounts, rear adjustable track bar, alignment by a shop specializing in 4x4 and a few other things running me a little over 2 grand fixed everything, although I still fight the drift in the truck lanes. I know you know what you are doing, but have to ask if the alignment shop is dedicated to 4x4?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Babygools99
Jerry Bransford said:
Sounds like a bad steering box. If you confirm it's bad and decide to replace it, make sure NOT to use a Cardone brand steering box. Cardone has earned a reputation for shoddy rebuilds which some feel are little more than being cleaned & repainted. You haven't included your model year, just know that the steering box's mounting bolt pattern is different between 1997-2002 and 2003-2006 TJs.
Click to expand...
It is a 1999. I replaced it with an o reily special, lol. Is there any way to test to see if it is bad?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
It's more of a feel thing but you might have a friend repeatedly turn the steering wheel back & forth to see if the Pitman arm is moving smoothly & in step with the multiple varying types of steering input given by your helper. Tires have to be on the ground for this test. Store-brand rebuilds are often barely rebuilt and are commonly made for them by Cardone. I don't go with any store brand critical parts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Babygools99
Jerry Bransford said:
It's more of a feel thing but you might have a friend repeatedly turn the steering wheel back & forth to see if the Pitman arm is moving smoothly & in step with the multiple varying types of steering input given by your helper. Tires have to be on the ground for this test. Store-brand rebuilds are often barely rebuilt and are commonly made for them by Cardone. I don't go with any store brand critical parts.
Click to expand...
I will give it a look. Appreciate the tips!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Jerry Bransford said:
It's more of a feel thing but you might have a friend repeatedly turn the steering wheel back & forth to see if the Pitman arm is moving smoothly & in step with the multiple varying types of steering input given by your helper. Tires have to be on the ground for this test. Store-brand rebuilds are often barely rebuilt and are commonly made for them by Cardone. I don't go with any store brand critical parts.
Click to expand...
I can also describe it as me holding the steering wheel straight and the steering wheel seems to get no response as the jeep wanders around all over. And the when i make turns, if i let go of the wheel, it will not come back to me, the jeep will just keep turning that ditection.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Poor return-to-center after completing a turn can also be caused by inadequate Caster angle. For 33's you want no less than around 5.5 degrees of Caster angle but 6 is better. But that problem is more likely caused by the steering box binding up inside.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: randyranderson and Babygools99
One other thing to check while you are looking in that area. Check the joints in the steering shaft for massive play. Sounds more like a box or alignment issue but it could still be the shaft and that's easy to check.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Babygools99
Babygools99 said:
So, i've been fighting a really violent unpredictable wandering steering issue with my jeep for months now. With my steering wheel straight driving down the highway it will seem to go whatever direction it sees fit. If i turn the steering wheel ever so slightly it will immediately violently dart the direction i corrected it too and then the process continues until im going slow enough to somewhat straihhten it out. It had never had death wobble, and i've had it on an allignment machine 4 times with the numbers coming out great.
My jeep has a 3" lift, running 33x12.50x15s and a DPA, but here are the things that i have replaced:


-My rear axle was bad so i did an artec swap kit on an 8.8, running the stock track bar on the back with new bushings. I am running stock control arms to this axle as well but the bushings seem to be okay

-Front Upper and Lower Adj. CA's to sort out some issues with the front axle having negative caster and replace worn out bushings.
-new steering box to replace my leaking/worn out stock one
-new steering linkage with brand new ends, and new steering stabilizer
-new ball joints uppers and lowers
-new shocks all the way around.
-running tires at 26 psi on load range C BFG KM2's

Violent steering still hasn't resolved itself even after putting it on an allignment machine and getting back good numbers.

All of my bearings in the axle and my hub seem to have no movement in the front or back axles when i've checked.

The only thing i havent replaced are the sway bar end links on the front and the bushings, which seem to be okay. Any ideas or similar problems anyone?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Is it hard to hold on center? As in if you are going straight down the highway it pops over off of center to either side and doesn't want to stay on center? That will also show up as difficulties trying to steer straight after it pops over off center, then as you try to bring it back, it gets almost to center and then pops over to off center to the other side? Don't guess or try to make it fit what I described, just try to see if what I described fits what it does.
 
mrblaine said:
Is it hard to hold on center? As in if you are going straight down the highway it pops over off of center to either side and doesn't want to stay on center? That will also show up as difficulties trying to steer straight after it pops over off center, then as you try to bring it back, it gets almost to center and then pops over to off center to the other side? Don't guess or try to make it fit what I described, just try to see if what I described fits what it does.
Click to expand...
Yeah, once i get to a certsin speed it starts to wander on its own, then once it does that initially, it is almost impossible to get it centered up until going slow enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Don't know if it is an issue, but my sway bar end links seem to be rubbing against the frame on the passengers side. I know the bolts are facing different directions, something the PO did, but the initial off center pull to begin with always seems to be towards the drivers side. Would this have any effect?
c5aeb1d5ebc6acfe09d56991f273c040.jpg
da7849604e858f2503ef8e5fa1912859.jpg


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Babygools99 said:
Don't know if it is an issue, but my sway bar end links seem to be rubbing against the frame on the passengers side. I know the bolts are facing different directions, something the PO did, but the initial off center pull to begin with always seems to be towards the drivers side. Would this have any effect?View attachment 45282View attachment 45283

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It's possible but probably not going to be enough friction there to do anything. Check to make sure your front axle is centered through. If the track bar is way to short than maby it could be putting enough pressure on the sway bar links bolt. Also can you take some pictures directly from the front just below bumper height. It may help to see the geometry of everything. Just in case some aftermarket part is causing bump steer.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
Babygools99 said:
Yeah, once i get to a certsin speed it starts to wander on its own, then once it does that initially, it is almost impossible to get it centered up until going slow enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Your steering gear is popping over center and needs to be replaced.
 
I am a new member here and new to Jeeps. I have owned mine for about 3 months. What you describe sounds exactly like what my 97 se was doing. I bought it with 3.5 in lift, not sure of brand, rides on 31 Discovery cooper AT3's, yes they are small but they are new; here is what I did after reading and reading and watching videos:

I visually studied the stance and made small adjustments and then drove it for a day before making another adjustment. to see if it helped or made it worse. I measured everything.

First, I checked toe in without tires mounted and set it as recommend, however after mounting the tires one still seemed to look like it was traveling in diferent direction from the other. I then decided to run the tie rod in about 6 complete turns. Now my tires were clearly pointing to the middle of the road but I adjusted out a little at a time until the darting stopped. This was one of the best things I did.

Second, I noticed that when I accelerated it would dart one way and as I braked it darted another. I did a complete brake job front and rear to include a hardware kit. Another big improvement

Third, replaced front and rear track bars to adjustable ones and got both axles square. not big but I noticed an improvement

Fourth, got adjustable upper control arms front and rear. adjusted pinion angle and was surprised when it smoothed out. I didnt even realize that I had a vib but it took care of it. On the rear I matched the angle of the tranfer case out put to the rear dif input, cant remember the degree, on the front axle I went from 11 degrees to 8 degrees, I am going to adjust a bit more to get it down to 5 or 6 degrees.

fifth, replace drop pitman arm with a stock height one. got rid of the bump steer. big difference driving on rough roads.

Overall my rear axle was about 3/4 of an inch sticking out on the drivers side, and the passenger side of the rear axle was 3/8 of an inch forward from the drivers side. the Front axle on the passenger side was 1/2 of an inch to the rear. turned tie rod in 6 or seven turns the adjusted about 3 turns out overall. then centered steering wheel.

I hope this helps you a bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Babygools99 and derekmac
Paparock1 said:
I am a new member here and new to Jeeps. I have owned mine for about 3 months. What you describe sounds exactly like what my 97 se was doing. I bought it with 3.5 in lift, not sure of brand, rides on 31 Discovery cooper AT3's, yes they are small but they are new; here is what I did after reading and reading and watching videos:

I visually studied the stance and made small adjustments and then drove it for a day before making another adjustment. to see if it helped or made it worse. I measured everything.

First, I checked toe in without tires mounted and set it as recommend, however after mounting the tires one still seemed to look like it was traveling in diferent direction from the other. I then decided to run the tie rod in about 6 complete turns. Now my tires were clearly pointing to the middle of the road but I adjusted out a little at a time until the darting stopped. This was one of the best things I did.

Second, I noticed that when I accelerated it would dart one way and as I braked it darted another. I did a complete brake job front and rear to include a hardware kit. Another big improvement

Third, replaced front and rear track bars to adjustable ones and got both axles square. not big but I noticed an improvement

Fourth, got adjustable upper control arms front and rear. adjusted pinion angle and was surprised when it smoothed out. I didnt even realize that I had a vib but it took care of it. On the rear I matched the angle of the tranfer case out put to the rear dif input, cant remember the degree, on the front axle I went from 11 degrees to 8 degrees, I am going to adjust a bit more to get it down to 5 or 6 degrees.

fifth, replace drop pitman arm with a stock height one. got rid of the bump steer. big difference driving on rough roads.

Overall my rear axle was about 3/4 of an inch sticking out on the drivers side, and the passenger side of the rear axle was 3/8 of an inch forward from the drivers side. the Front axle on the passenger side was 1/2 of an inch to the rear. turned tie rod in 6 or seven turns the adjusted about 3 turns out overall. then centered steering wheel.

I hope this helps you a bit.
Click to expand...
Good comments, I would only move replacing the dropped Pitman arm with the OE factory from last to first together with checking/adjusting the toe-in.
 
Top Bottom
Back