Suspension setup: mud / snow vs crawling?

J.Pierce

J.Pierce

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WI, North end
I guess this is not exactly TJ specific, but I do have a TJ so......

The last time I was lifting anything was years ago. 70s and 80s Chevy trucks. I was young and didn't have a lot of money, so an ugly 3" body lift and whatever spring setups I could scrounge up or cobble together. Performance was not a concern, ride quality surely didn't matter, height was all that mattered....lol I don't intend to use that same philosophy anymore.

Fast forward to now, I've been driving the same 99 TJ for years with stock suspension, but I changed jobs and have a company vehicle so I no longer have to finish a project on it in only a weekend and have it back on the road for Monday, so I'm finally going to lift it and re-gear it. I plan on 4" lift and 33" tires.

Most lift discussions here seem to revolve around rock crawling and flex, but I don't have any rocks, and it's just flat here!
I'm usually in mud, or deep snow, (snow measured in feet not inches)
I'm surely not a hardcore mudder, so it may not even be that much of an issue for me, but I'm still curious if suspension setup recommendations change for mud/snow?
I started looking at OME, but I'm not really a body lift fan, but Currie seems overkill. I'm not made of money but I'll spend what I need to do it right. But it seems to me by the time I did an OME right I'm not that far off of a Currie setup. A body lift would let me tuck the fuel tank and tranny, but..... is it worth it..... I dunno...

I'm not looking so much for a "you need X lift" type answer. I was really wanting to hear what features you think are import for mud and snow vs rock crawling, if there is any difference?
I mean the one thing I've thought of was I would probably never disconnect, but other than that I couldn't come up with anything that really set the two application apart that much. Got any thoughts or opinions I would like to hear 'em. Thanks!
 
I have nothing to offer, but I like the question, so I'm just replying to 'watch' and learn what differences in suspension apply to mud & snow versus crawling.

I would guess that the main differences are just going to be tire choice (i.e. not all-terrain), and maybe also tire width (narrow is better for snow?).
 
I'm over in Michigan, and have a lot of the same terrain you do. I would absolutely do the body lift. Anything you can get up and out of the mud, you do it. You need big tires... The only times I get stuck are when I'm dragging my diffs through the mud...I had the OME lift plus a 1.25" body lift and 33s.

For me... I'm building a rock crawler, because the basic tenets are the same. 35's, tucked belly, raised rear end, etc. I drive mine on enough varied conditions (including lots of road miles) that expensive shocks make sense to me, so I'm heading down that path too.
 
A good suspension fits the tires without rubbing and doesn't limit travel. I don't think it's too dependent on how you use the Jeep unless you really are just driving to the mall. Beyond that things like skid plates and armor are different depending on how you use your Jeep but that's a different deal than suspension. You pick tires for your needs and then pick the suspension to make it work. I think the Zone Offroad lift kits are a good blueprint for what generally works and what you need to run different size tires. The the 4.25" combo kit they sell is a great example. Like any kit or suspension part out there it really is designed to make running a certain size tire work and not much else.
 
It'd be real hard to beat a Zone suspension lift for your wheeling needs. It's a very good quality suspension for the $$$. Just keep in mind that for your low traction situations in the winter that you want a tire that has a lot of sipes cut into it. The more sipes the better where slick ice and snow is concerned. For that reason I'd stick with an all-terrain tire which tends to have more siping than a mud terrain tire typically has.

Don't confuse tire sipes with kerfs. Sipes are very thin slits cut into the tire, kerfs are wider molded slots whose purpose is similar but sipes help a LOT better on slick road surfaces than kerfs do. I actually had sipes cut into a set of BFG MTs years ago, some tire shops can do that.
 
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Thanks for all the replies already!

I'll check out the Zone lifts too, I've heard the name but never looked at them.

My current tires are Wrangle Duratracs, and even though they aren't the coolest looking tires I think I'll probably just get them in 33s.
They don't jump out to me as being spectacular at anything, but they seem to be pretty good at everything.
I think it was BFG MTs I had on a pickup about 10 years ago, I never siped them, but I recall they really howled on the black top.

I didn't think there would be much difference in mud vs rock suspension, but I figured I better ask if there was anything I was overlooking before I whip out the debit card.
 
If your on roads with snow and hard pack don’t go crazy with width. Off road wheelin in deep snow wide tires can give you floatation if aired down.
But if you get anywhere near a hard packed road ( less then 18” deep)
Your TJ will suck big time with wide tires. No traction or directional control at all. Been there, done that.
It’s not fun watching a Subaru drive down the road no problem when you
Have to drive 10 mph and still can’t steer because you have no ground pressure.:cautious:
 
ColoJeep said:
If your on roads with snow and hard pack don’t go crazy with width. Off road wheelin in deep snow wide tires can give you floatation if aired down.
But if you get anywhere near a hard packed road ( less then 18” deep)
Your TJ will suck big time with wide tires. No traction or directional control at all. Been there, done that.
It’s not fun watching a Subaru drive down the road no problem when you
Have to drive 10 mph and still can’t steer because you have no ground pressure.:cautious:
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Good point, I agree with you.

I planned to stay narrow on the Jeep.

Even my 1972 Blazer was squirrely on wide tires in the right snow, or loon shit mud, it was longer than a Jeep by a fair amount.
 
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This is all budget dependent of course but the people I know or know of with dedicated rigs for mud, snow, or hill climbing, use a long arm suspension. Now long arms are not good on TJs for rock crawling, but in ultra low traction you need to be able to get over obstacles like logs or rocks buried in the mud/snow. This is easiest with long arms because the axles path of travel has a radius thats so much bigger, its practically moving up and down, where as with short arms, the radius is smaller and the front axle has to move outward towards the front of the vehicle in order to compress upwards. If you not going to be rock crawling, you really dont have to be worried about getting hung up on the longer control arms and a long arm's offroad characteristics would be better suited to your terrain, not to mention how much nicer it rides on the road (for the same reasons: radius)


long-arm-vs-short-arm-lift-kit.jpg

Understanding Aftermarket Suspensions - mikesjeep.com
 
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J.Pierce said:
Good point, I agree with you.

I planned to stay narrow on the Jeep.

Even my 1972 Blazer was squirrely on wide tires in the right snow, or loon shit mud, it was longer than a Jeep by a fair amount.
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Same issues with my 74 Blazer.:confused:

Suspension wise I am quite happy with a 2.5” Rancho kit. Decent shocks are a must in Snow wheeling to prevent axle hop in the deep stuff if you have to jump on it a bit busting drifts.
 
Something to consider that no one has mentioned yet is the type of joints on the control arms and track bars. If you will be in mud very often, a greaseable rod-end joint may need frequent servicing and rebuilding. A bushing joint wouldn't need the same attention and care.
 
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ColoJeep said:
Same issues with my 74 Blazer.:confused:

Suspension wise I am quite happy with a 2.5” Rancho kit. Decent shocks are a must in Snow wheeling to prevent axle hop in the deep stuff if you have to jump on it a bit busting drifts.
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I need new shocks, that's why I'm buying a lift kit.
As far as I know new shocks and new tires are the same, you can only get them if you get a new lift kit too.;)
 
Look into the Zone lift (like Jerry suggested) for your needs. I've done plenty of mud in the past and unlike rock crawling, belly clearance isn't an issue for mud and snow. Also, high clearance skids make it harder to get all the mud out. Expensive control arms won't last any/much longer if you do deeper mud. It took me months to get my Jeep back to normal when I gave up the deeper mud. 😟
p.s. If you decide on a Zone lift, go with the 4.25" combo lift that keeps the stock control arms and get the Rancho RS5000X shocks with it. You'll thank me later. I've been using their lifts for 12 years or more.
SNOW JEEP.jpg
 
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TheBoogieman said:
Look into the Zone lift (like Jerry suggested) for your needs. I've done plenty of mud in the past and unlike rock crawling, belly clearance isn't an issue. Also, high clearance skids make it harder to get all the mud out. Expensive control arms won't last any/much longer if you do deeper mud. It took me months to get my Jeep back to normal when I gave up the deeper mud. 😟
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I was just looking at Zone lifts, my initial thought is it looks like a pretty good deal for the money.
 
J.Pierce said:
I need new shocks, that's why I'm buying a lift kit.
As far as I know new shocks and new tires are the same, you can only get them if you get a new lift kit too.;)
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Buy the way Welcome to the Forum J.Pierce !
Of course getting a new lift kit is the only way to get good shocks, tires, hey maybe even wheels and a new stereo. :ROFLMAO:
I have no experience regarding Zone lift kits, but if the folks here recommend them they are worth a look !
Most of the time you will get great advise in here ! Of course there is always that one guy :rolleyes:.
Have fun building your TJ!
 
ColoJeep said:
Buy the way Welcome to the Forum J.Pierce !
Of course getting a new lift kit is the only way to get good shocks, tires, hey maybe even wheels and a new stereo. :ROFLMAO:
I have no experience regarding Zone lift kits, but if the folks here recommend them they are worth a look !
Most of the time you will get great advise in here ! Of course there is always that one guy :rolleyes:.
Have fun building your TJ!
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Thanks man!
 
L0jik said:
This is all budget dependent of course but the people I know or know of with dedicated rigs for mud, snow, or hill climbing, use a long arm suspension. Now long arms are not good on TJs for rock crawling, but in ultra low traction you need to be able to get over obstacles like logs or rocks buried in the mud/snow. This is easiest with long arms because the axles path of travel has a radius thats so much bigger, its practically moving up and down, where as with short arms, the radius is smaller and the front axle has to move outward towards the front of the vehicle in order to compress upwards. If you not going to be rock crawling, you really dont have to be worried about getting hung up on the longer control arms and a long arm's offroad characteristics would be better suited to your terrain, not to mention how much nicer it rides on the road (for the same reasons: radius)


View attachment 263015
View attachment 263014
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I don't buy any of that as the reason for moving control arm mounts
 
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L0jik said:
Why not? Like I admitted, longs arms are NOT for rock crawling, but when clearance isn't in the equation, why wouldn't they be preferable?
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Because the reasons you stated aren't meaningful, regardless if that's what people tell themselves.
 
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