32RH Transmission Shudder

[hunterstarpley]

New to the forum; also new to the TJ life.

The forum has been a lifesaver over the last month or so with my TJ project. @Jerry Bransford seems to be very knowlegable as I have seen and learned to trust his advice and expertise on several different topics!

Recently picked up a 2000 Jeep TJ 4.0L (197k miles) from a high school friend (it was it first car @ 16) that was not running and had been sitting for 2-3 years for $2500. Friend went to aircraft mechanic school and had to commute a good ways each day so he parked the (running at the time) jeep and drove something else. After losing interest, he finally gave in to selling to me.

Same day I picked it up and trailered it home, I had it running - fuel pump was shot and gas was bad. After a trip to Auto Zone and a few hours of labor, I had the pump changed and Jeep up and going. Spark plugs have also been replaced.

The Jeep had a terrible death wobble, but that has since been resolved after ripping out everything from the front end and replacing with new parts. A new set of balanced tires helped as well.

Now to my current issue... I'm experiencing some shuttering/slipping with the transmission (32RH). I've read several posts on here regarding fluid level and shifting manually using the gear shifter (1st —> 2nd, 2nd —> Drive). Fluid level is a little over the high mark when in Neutral, running, and warm. Trans does not shutter/slip when manually using gear shifter between 1st and 2nd, but 2nd to drive has a mild slip still.

I've read a few things about adjusting TV cable... could that be what is needed? Also read a little about adjusting the bands. I'd like to eliminate all "inexpensive" possibilities before taking it to a transmission shop and ultimately rebuilding/replacing the transmission. I do, however, understand that it has nearly 200k miles on it and may very well need a transmission at this point.

Any guidance/help is much appreciated!

P.S. I had to put about 4 qts of trans fluid (yes, ATF+4) when I first brought it home. I also had to retorque the transmission pan bolts due to it leaking.

 

[hear]

Does it slip at all in reverse?

When you go from 2 to D, the kickdown band lets go of the drum and the front clutches engage. The only other gear that uses the front clutches is reverse. Now this test isn't foolproof, because reverse uses like 3x the line pressure which could make it engage w/o slipping whereas in D the pressure is 3x less which might be low enough to allow it to slip. The slipping itself could be that the clutches are worn out, or it could be a piston or other sealing problem that's preventing pressure from making those clutches bump uglies.

The kickdown band is what gives you 2nd gear, so if you don't have any problem going into 2nd (or kicking down into 2nd below 40ish mph) I doubt that the band needs any adjustment. The low/reverse band isn't used in 2 or D, and you can't adjust it w/o removing the pan anyway.

The TV cable is primarily to allow the transmission to know how much gas you're giving it, to know if it should hold the current gear longer, or if it should downshift (aka kickdown). I would not suspect it just yet.

 

[hear]

Also, if you have a set of snap ring pliers and a couple of wrenches & sockets, you can rebuild 98% of this transmission yourself. The last 2 % is that replacing the piston seals does require a special tool to compress some stuff, but you can get on on amazon for ~$50.

You know, or pay 3 large for a shop to rebuild it.

Happy to help you through this.

 

[hunterstarpley]

Thanks for the reply!

No, it does not slip in Reverse.

I have noticed that it does not like to shift down to 2nd when slow down from 50+ mph to 25-30 mph. Or, if i'm going up a large incline, I don't notice it downshifting well then either.

I'm willing to try a lot of things... but rebuilding the trans has me slightly nervous haha. I've done various things over the years, such as lifts, steering component replacements, rear axle seals in trucks, etc, but i feel like a trans is above my capability. How long is the process? What is the risk?

 

[hear]

I'm willing to try a lot of things... but rebuilding the trans has me slightly nervous haha. I've done various things over the years, such as lifts, steering component replacements, rear axle seals in trucks, etc, but i feel like a trans is above my capability. How long is the process? What is the risk?

I don't know that you need a rebuild just yet, but the risk is that you spend some money & time and you still need to have it rebuilt professionally. That was what I realized before I undertook the project. It doesn't matter to me if you want to pay to have it done, but watch a couple videos and you'll see how easy it actually is. It's not quite the mysterious black box it is made out to be. YMMV.

I have noticed that it does not like to shift down to 2nd when slow down from 50+ mph to 25-30 mph. Or, if i'm going up a large incline, I don't notice it downshifting well then either.

I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying you don't feel it downshift into 2nd when slowing down, or if you slow down and then re-accelerate you can tell that you're still in 3rd? It probably mostly depends on how you're into the gas pedal during those times. And I don't know that I feel mine shift into 2nd while slowing down...maybe it does? I can't test right now, I currently have my daughter's 97 auto opened up for minor surgery.

 

[hunterstarpley]

I don't know that you need a rebuild just yet, but the risk is that you spend some money & time and you still need to have it rebuilt professionally. That was what I realized before I undertook the project. It doesn't matter to me if you want to pay to have it done, but watch a couple videos and you'll see how easy it actually is. It's not quite the mysterious black box it is made out to be. YMMV.


I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying you don't feel it downshift into 2nd when slowing down, or if you slow down and then re-accelerate you can tell that you're still in 3rd? It probably mostly depends on how you're into the gas pedal during those times. And I don't know that I feel mine shift into 2nd while slowing down...maybe it does? I can't test right now, I currently have my daughter's 97 auto opened up for minor surgery.

Seems like when I start to re-accelerate that I’m too low of RPMs as if I never shifted to 2nd.

On a separate note, oil pressure gauge all over the place today. Seems like the sending unit has gone bad. Ordered a replacement for that as well.

 

[hear]

Interesting. That could be a stuck governor, which can be done with the trans in the jeep. Transfer case & extension ousting have to be removed though.

I don’t have any tests for the governor, unfortunately.

 

[hunterstarpley]

Interesting. That could be a stuck governor, which can be done with the trans in the jeep. Transfer case & extension ousting have to be removed though.

I don’t have any tests for the governor, unfortunately.

Ended up at the transmission shop. Full overhaul including TC $2350 out the door. Includes warranty. Would have loved to have tried the rebuild myself, but lack of time, space, and knowledge led me to the professionals instead. Hope to have it back next week!

 

[hear]

Ended up at the transmission shop. Full overhaul including TC $2350 out the door. Includes warranty. Would have loved to have tried the rebuild myself, but lack of time, space, and knowledge led me to the professionals instead. Hope to have it back next week!

Time & space are hard to control, but you don’t acquire knowledge by not doing the work!

But I get it. $2350 is much, much cheaper than I’ve ever heard, and I wonder if my quote had come back in that ballpark if I would’ve been so eager to attempt my rebuild.

 

[Raul G]

Interesting. That could be a stuck governor, which can be done with the trans in the jeep. Transfer case & extension ousting have to be removed though.

I don’t have any tests for the governor, unfortunately.

It appears that I am experiencing the same or similar isssue.

Hard or late shift to 2nd gear and hard shuddering when coming to a stop. Both problems are solved by shifting to neautral then back to D. I do have issues with reverse not engaging. Any help or directions is appreciated.

 

[hear]

Like you don't have reverse at all, or it's slow to engage? Or slips in R, or something else?

 

[Raul G]

Like you don't have reverse at all, or it's slow to engage? Or slips in R, or something else?

It’s slow to engage, I tend to have to rev up the rpms for some time. Reverse will kick in automatically once I’ve driven it around and it’s warmed up. Issues came about when I drained the transmission and have become more frequent.

 

[hear]

Reverse requires like 3x the pressure to engage, so it’s possible you’re not getting enough flow from the pump or a partially blocked passage or other valve body issue. If it does eventually engage then I wouldn’t think it’s a piston seal issue. I presume you’ve checked the level while warm & running in Neutral?

For the 2nd gear issues, assuming you don’t have a fluid problem, I would probably start with a band adjustment on the intermediate band, which can be done in-vehicle w/o opening up the trans.

 

[Raul G]

Reverse requires like 3x the pressure to engage, so it’s possible you’re not getting enough flow from the pump or a partially blocked passage or other valve body issue. If it does eventually engage then I wouldn’t think it’s a piston seal issue. I presume you’ve checked the level while warm & running in Neutral?

For the 2nd gear issues, assuming you don’t have a fluid problem, I would probably start with a band adjustment on the intermediate band, which can be done in-vehicle w/o opening up the trans.

I have checked the level but will do so again as it does have leak here and there coming from the pan.

I had read about the intermediate band adjustment some time ago. I adjusted the band and felt some difference. Since doing the adjustment the gear tends to engage sooner but rpm’s still rise. And the down shifting shuddering issues still continues. I plan to drop the pan and take a look see if there is any debris.

 

[Raul G]

I have checked the level but will do so again as it does have leak here and there coming from the pan.

I had read about the intermediate band adjustment some time ago. I adjusted the band and felt some difference. Since doing the adjustment the gear tends to engage sooner but rpm’s still rise. And the down shifting shuddering issues still continues. I plan to drop the pan and take a look see if there is any debris.

To expand on the band adjustment it’s the bolt near the driver side?

 

[hear]

To expand on the band adjustment it’s the bolt near the driver side?

Yes. The FSM is quite specific in the adjustment process. You’ll need an inch-lb torque wrench.

The troubleshooting quite for hard shift into 2nd has like 6 possible causes, 3 of which are band related. But you also said RPMs rise, is the engine flaring up during that shift?

 

[Raul G]

Yes. The FSM is quite specific in the adjustment process. You’ll need an inch-lb torque wrench.

The troubleshooting quite for hard shift into 2nd has like 6 possible causes, 3 of which are band related. But you also said RPMs rise, is the engine flaring up during that shift?

I need to get hands in a inch/lb wrench, as the ft/lb may be inaccurate. Yes it flares up until the gear kicks in.

 

[Raul G]

Yes. The FSM is quite specific in the adjustment process. You’ll need an inch-lb torque wrench.

The troubleshooting quite for hard shift into 2nd has like 6 possible causes, 3 of which are band related. But you also said RPMs rise, is the engine flaring up during that shift?

I adjusted the intermediate band, since then it’s gifted much better but I still continue to get the excessive shudder when coming to a stop. The only solution I’ve had is throwing the gear into neutral then to drive again. Seems like it allows it to down shift and avoids the shuddering. Any idea what it may be?

 

[hear]

I don't have any experience with a shudder, but my first guess would be torque converter related, without any real data to back me up. It could be the TC itself, or it could be related to the lockup. To rule out the lockup just unplug it from the back of the trans. Fuse 11 also will do the trick, but I'm not sure what else is on fuse 11.

I've read where a worn low/reverse band can give these sorts of symptoms, so you might consider doing that band adjustment as well. Bad news is you have to drop the pan to do it. Sorry I don't have a better diagnostic for you.