97 Dana 44 gear issues with Detroit locker

NWPA Jeepy T

NWPA Jeepy T

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SOOO many issues.
I've been studying this for a year and as it turns out, I have no idea what I'm doing.
Pulling out a spool and installing a Detroit locker. The big problem with the 97 is the shims go between the bearings and the carrier/locker, so I've been using setup bearings. Gears are 5 years old (15k miles+)
I was told I could leave the pinion alone, so that's where I started. I can't get the bearings off the old spool to see what was in there as a starting point, so I just guessed at it. Whacked the carrier back in with my plastic mallet and zipped the bearing cap bolts in with my impact on low.
My latest attempt
Gear side shims .030
Other side shims .057
Backlash .018
20230704_125719.jpg

Please help me and speak like I'm an idiot. I believe it's true at this point
 
.018 is a little too much backlash, did you measure it before you removed the spool? To keep the gears properly set up the back lash needs to be the same as it was originally with the spool. .005–.008 is the factory spec for backlash but for a new carrier it needs to be shimmed to give as close to the original backlash you had with the spool as is possible.
 
Since you are not changing pinion depth there is no reason to worry about the pattern. Ideally you neede to measure the backlash before you pulled the spool so you could just return it to the same measurement. If you do not know then my suggestion is to shoot for somewhere around .012 and call it a day.
 
It measured right a 9 in 3 different places, but that puts the pattern toward the outer edge of the teeth. I did not take a pattern
 
I could pull it all, put the ring back on the spool, get it back in since the shims and bearings are still on it and start from scratch with measurements and a pattern
 
So I ended up putting the ring back on the spool. Backlash .095 and pattern ran pretty much dead center like you'd want.
Then I measured width of spool unit race to race.
Then I measured width of locker unit race to race setup bearings with the shims i had in it.
Locker was .040 wider which would explain the 10 whacks I had to give it to get it in.
I dropped the .040, ran a few BL and nailed the. 095 with .033 ring side, .031 non ring side.
When I pressed the bearings on with my buddies HF 20 ton, it ended up .040 narrower than it needs to be, so my BL ends up .014 - .065
What did i do wrong?
I need to pull the bearings and start over?
HELP!!!
Thanks
 
NWPA Jeepy T said:
So I ended up putting the ring back on the spool. Backlash .095 and pattern ran pretty much dead center like you'd want.
Then I measured width of spool unit race to race.
Then I measured width of locker unit race to race setup bearings with the shims i had in it.
Locker was .040 wider which would explain the 10 whacks I had to give it to get it in.
I dropped the .040, ran a few BL and nailed the. 095 with .033 ring side, .031 non ring side.
When I pressed the bearings on with my buddies HF 20 ton, it ended up .040 narrower than it needs to be, so my BL ends up .014 - .065
What did i do wrong?
I need to pull the bearings and start over?
HELP!!!
Thanks
Click to expand...

I don't measure that stuff. I put it together until the numbers are what they are with the correct amount of backlash and preload. Setup bearings do what you described a lot. That's why I prefer shims outside the races. Press the bearings on and be done with them. Shim until you have good preload with the correct amount of backlash. Done. That easy.
 
hosejockey61 said:
I don't measure that stuff. I put it together until the numbers are what they are with the correct amount of backlash and preload. Setup bearings do what you described a lot. That's why I prefer shims outside the races. Press the bearings on and be done with them. Shim until you have good preload with the correct amount of backlash. Done. That easy.
Click to expand...

I tried shimming between the races and housing. How the #311 do you get the unit in with the freekin shims moving all over the place?
FYI, laying on my side in my driveway 😡
 
NWPA Jeepy T said:
I tried shimming between the races and housing. How the #311 do you get the unit in with the freekin shims moving all over the place?
FYI, laying on my side in my driveway 😡
Click to expand...

Driveways suck. BTDT, that's why I have a lift now :LOL: . You need to be patient and ensure you start the carrier with both sides going in until they start to get snug. Then if one shim gets behind a little just tap it back to the race. Do this side to side until it's set. They are easy to get in wrong and bend, we've all done it....I did it a couple of weeks ago. If you MUST use the set up bearings with the shims under them, then establish your preload first and use that amount of shims while trying to get to the backlash spec. In other words, keep the combination of shims the same even when you move them if that makes sense.
 
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hosejockey61 said:
Driveways suck. BTDT, that's why I have a lift now :LOL: . You need to be patient and ensure you start the carrier with both sides going in until they start to get snug. Then if one shim gets behind a little just tap it back to the race. Do this side to side until it's set. They are easy to get in wrong and bend, we've all done it....I did it a couple of weeks ago. If you MUST use the set up bearings with the shims under them, then establish your preload first and use that amount of shims while trying to get to the backlash spec. In other words, keep the combination of shims the same even when you move them if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

I just don't understand how I had preload and BL with setup bearings, then -.040 when I pressed. My carpenter mind does not compute. I'll try it the way you described. those super thin (.005?) Are too thin to tap. I was rushing the first time I tried, thinking I could do what I've seen others here do quickly 🤣🤣🤣.
Next try, tomorrow or Tuesday🤞🏻🤞🏻
 
NWPA Jeepy T said:
I just don't understand how I had preload and BL with setup bearings, then -.040 when I pressed. My carpenter mind does not compute. I'll try it the way you described. those super thin (.005?) Are too thin to tap. I was rushing the first time I tried, thinking I could do what I've seen others here do quickly 🤣🤣🤣.
Next try, tomorrow or Tuesday🤞🏻🤞🏻
Click to expand...

if you are going to use setup bearings, (IMHO) they MUST be the same brand as the final bearings and they MUST be brand new. Way to many variables for them to do be consistent, including the amount of pressure applied from the press. As far as the thin shims, be sure to place them between the thicker shims. They should stick and slide together. If not, start over.
 
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hosejockey61 said:
if you are going to use setup bearings, (IMHO) they MUST be the same brand as the final bearings and they MUST be brand new. Way to many variables for them to do be consistent, including the amount of pressure applied from the press. As far as the thin shims, be sure to place them between the thicker shims. They should stick and slide together. If not, start over.
Click to expand...

Thanks, HJ. Setups were the same brand and brand new. I'll try once or twice shimming outside the races. After that, I'll pull the bearings and shim between.
I appreciate your help
 
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Pulled my rear axle. Taking it to Simpson Family Jeeps in Conneaut, OH to re-do the gears while installing my Detroit locker. Quoted 950 for the gears, setup and install. It is what it is. If I would've done this 7 weeks ago when I parked it, it would be back on the road and I would've saved on buying a bunch of tools I don't need
https://www.sfj4x4.com/
 
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