Looks like what I was afraid of when I was clearancing my spring perch for the shock body (leading me to free the line and hold it out of the way), only I don't see any work done to the perch.
Andy G needs brake love
- Thread starter AndyG
- Start date
Looks like what I was afraid of when I was clearancing my spring perch for the shock body (leading me to free the line and hold it out of the way), only I don't see any work done to the perch.
Did @AndyG finally get the brake love he's been longing for? It helps to have THE brake expert chime in. 
You mentioned the shock had been rubbing on the hard line. That is a grinder cut with a hard disc. Not sure what work was being done, but that is what it is. You also want nothing to do with flaring that line. It has a polymer coating like a thin layer of very tough heat shrink that is bonded pretty well to the tube. That makes the OD larger than will fit into the flaring dies which means it has to be carefully removed if you try to flare it and it will look like crap when you are done. At this point, just make or buy a new one from the junction block over to the flex hose mount. Both ends will use 3/8-24 tube nuts for the double flare ends. The flex hoses I sent have a 3/8-24 tube nut with them.
One thing that has me wondering is you mentioned that the rear brake pads were worn a lot more than you thought they would be.
This is something different with brakes that happened to me over the last 2 years but finally got it fixed 6 months ago. Keep in mind that I do not have a big brake kit. I had my front passenger side brake pad binding up here and there. it wasn't all the time or consistent with anything I could link it too. Once it did bind, of coarse it would pull to the right. I would park it and let it sit then it would just fix itself. I was wondering if it was the heat or the guild pins etc... I bought a set of pads and did the bleeding process and it bleed like it should but I kept getting the same issue. I bought guild pins, finally when I bought a new caliper and the issue was the still there, I finally had enough. I disconnected both front lines at each caliper (one at a time) and let it gravity drain. I noticed that the driver was a steady stream while the passenger side was dripping. I disconnected at the proportioning valve to isolate where I might have blockage. I ended up using high pressure air at the caliper and shot it through the line backwards. It took a few burst of air but it finally shoot out whatever blockage was in the line. I have had no problems since.
I relate it to your situation as your pads are worn more than you expected, and you bleed it and it responded correctly, however air might still be trapped IF there is a flapper type blockage. With it being the rear brakes you might not have noticed that both calipers were not releasing all the way but actually dragging the same. Just a thought to try and help you get it right.
This is something different with brakes that happened to me over the last 2 years but finally got it fixed 6 months ago. Keep in mind that I do not have a big brake kit. I had my front passenger side brake pad binding up here and there. it wasn't all the time or consistent with anything I could link it too. Once it did bind, of coarse it would pull to the right. I would park it and let it sit then it would just fix itself. I was wondering if it was the heat or the guild pins etc... I bought a set of pads and did the bleeding process and it bleed like it should but I kept getting the same issue. I bought guild pins, finally when I bought a new caliper and the issue was the still there, I finally had enough. I disconnected both front lines at each caliper (one at a time) and let it gravity drain. I noticed that the driver was a steady stream while the passenger side was dripping. I disconnected at the proportioning valve to isolate where I might have blockage. I ended up using high pressure air at the caliper and shot it through the line backwards. It took a few burst of air but it finally shoot out whatever blockage was in the line. I have had no problems since.
I relate it to your situation as your pads are worn more than you expected, and you bleed it and it responded correctly, however air might still be trapped IF there is a flapper type blockage. With it being the rear brakes you might not have noticed that both calipers were not releasing all the way but actually dragging the same. Just a thought to try and help you get it right.
OP
Huge Thanks, I ‘ll get moving on getting you paid for them.
Agree on grinder for sure, no clue why one would be back there- the fluid had it black, made me think it was painted and not as severe- was wrong.
Seems I may need a 3 way distribution block that mounts on the Dana 44 axle-
I had a repaired line (a brass union that was used on my 2003 Rubicon when my control arm bracket failed -
Went to thread it into the block and it went bad - no idea what happened unless it was thread changed you mentioned.
Any way, got a 1 am brake job hang over and gotta get work moving - will keep
In touch.
The distribution block or rear upper flex hose is set up for 2 inverted flare ports in 3/16 with 3/8-24 thread for the same tube nuts mentioned above. The T block is part of the flex hose and has a hard line stand pipe that goes from the axle tube up to the end of the flex hose that runs down the upper control arm.
The curved cut sits on the axle tube and is held in place with the vent bolt.
Brass is not a good choice for brake parts, steel or stainless works better. The thread issues are with the tube nuts. They work, they just don't work like proper thread fits do.
OP
Thanks- makes perfect sense.
He had used a brass union to put an aftermarket line to a factory line I think- with a stainless bolt- But either way it’s just rigged up junk and a last ditch effort by me last night to feel the nirvana of good brakes-
I’m glad nobody was out there listening or watching me- wide open and fairly clueless.
If you are not intimately familiar with making hard lines and doing the double flares, I may be able to fix that for you.
OP
Thanks- there were just worn normally, not prematurely- just suprised me.
Still working on it but things seem to be going in the right direction.
Thanks man - Your story makes a good point about vigorously flushing the brake systems too.
Andy
OP
Thank you - in order to get a short-term fix just because I’m dying to at least feel the ultimate performance- I took the original line and had the flare work done after he removed the Teflon and I have it ready to go back on along with a new rear center line
I realize I’ll be going back through it when your stuff comes
I’m starting to feel much better armed.
There’s a good chance I’m going to slip away and see if I can work on it a couple of hours and then come back to work-
OP
With Blaines’ guidance I went through the entire bleed process tonight now the lines are solid-
-removed, plugged and bench bled the master - rock hard push with 1/8” travel. Rigged a plug like Blaine advised -
- verified the push rod is set correctly
- reinstalled the master
- bled each wheel in correct order with the correct “crack bleeder-down- tighten bleeder-pedal up” method
- reseated the pads
-all that is left is to crack the bleeders tomorrow for residual air, although this round I’m not even seeing them.
Result- outstanding brake performance.
Like be careful with them. I like to drive a tad aggressive when no ones around and these really suit that.
Come in as hot as you want. She’s stopping and doing it quick.
Pull out in front of me.
Whatever. I like big brakes and I cannot lie.
I’m going to go ahead and get this in the open now- From here on I will be promoting Blaine’s brake kits. They make people safer. They could save the life of a child chasing a ball into the road (seen that first hand). I know guys think the stock system is ok for big tires,
then eat up pads and rotors to the point they keep spare sets around. Once you have big brakes, you get it.
Blaines’ character, product and knowledge have me sold.
As a really nice surprise when I was under the rig I put my magnetic flashlight on the painted black control arms - it fell off. That means they are either wood or aluminum.
As far as I can tell there is not one cheap part or compromise on this LJR.
This thread healed a wound, fixed a jeep, and increased my knowledge which means growth.
I appreciate everyone helping and attempting to help, @Artsifrtsi for being willing to come out on a weekend, @psrivats for cutting to the chase @Weasellee for reaching out- and of course Blaine jumping all over the problem.
Likely a burp later at the calipers will increase performance, and new parts are coming- I may not change the lines instantly, just for short term closure- or I might while I remember how to do all this.
I will add if you think you are an authority on bleeding brakes, ask yourself exactly how you know that. Question when you aquired that knowledge. Ask yourself if its correct, does it apply to all brands and models. My point is, even with great intentions, we all get on here and spout what we “know”....but it is possible to be off base - and one of the worst things about that is it closes our minds to searching for accepting the right knowledge. With brakes being serious business, that is something to consider. I know I will from here on.
I will always try harder now to keep someones’ mechanical aptitude, means and ability in mind as I post what I think will help them.
-removed, plugged and bench bled the master - rock hard push with 1/8” travel. Rigged a plug like Blaine advised -
- verified the push rod is set correctly
- reinstalled the master
- bled each wheel in correct order with the correct “crack bleeder-down- tighten bleeder-pedal up” method
- reseated the pads
-all that is left is to crack the bleeders tomorrow for residual air, although this round I’m not even seeing them.
Result- outstanding brake performance.
Like be careful with them. I like to drive a tad aggressive when no ones around and these really suit that.
Come in as hot as you want. She’s stopping and doing it quick.
Pull out in front of me.
Whatever. I like big brakes and I cannot lie.
I’m going to go ahead and get this in the open now- From here on I will be promoting Blaine’s brake kits. They make people safer. They could save the life of a child chasing a ball into the road (seen that first hand). I know guys think the stock system is ok for big tires,
then eat up pads and rotors to the point they keep spare sets around. Once you have big brakes, you get it.
Blaines’ character, product and knowledge have me sold.
As a really nice surprise when I was under the rig I put my magnetic flashlight on the painted black control arms - it fell off. That means they are either wood or aluminum.
As far as I can tell there is not one cheap part or compromise on this LJR.
This thread healed a wound, fixed a jeep, and increased my knowledge which means growth.
I appreciate everyone helping and attempting to help, @Artsifrtsi for being willing to come out on a weekend, @psrivats for cutting to the chase @Weasellee for reaching out- and of course Blaine jumping all over the problem.
Likely a burp later at the calipers will increase performance, and new parts are coming- I may not change the lines instantly, just for short term closure- or I might while I remember how to do all this.
I will add if you think you are an authority on bleeding brakes, ask yourself exactly how you know that. Question when you aquired that knowledge. Ask yourself if its correct, does it apply to all brands and models. My point is, even with great intentions, we all get on here and spout what we “know”....but it is possible to be off base - and one of the worst things about that is it closes our minds to searching for accepting the right knowledge. With brakes being serious business, that is something to consider. I know I will from here on.
I will always try harder now to keep someones’ mechanical aptitude, means and ability in mind as I post what I think will help them.
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Can you elaborate on this? I found a blaine post from many years ago talking about adjusting the pushrod til there was zero play with a credit cards worth of space between the booster and master.that way there is a tiny bit of preload without blocking a port.
I'm curious what your procedure was and if it is different for your bbk master?
So you guys have actually “talked” and come to a good place. I like this. Cheers to you AndyG. And as I’ve said multiple times to he and to all, @mrblaine , you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you for all you do. 
Read what he said about bench bleeding. When you BB with plugged ports, you know it is good when the plunger will only go in around 1/8". That is the distance the cup seals are back from the ports that let fluid out of the reservoir into the bore of the master. The reservoir has to be able to keep the bore full and there has to be a way for fluid expansion to be dealt with. The cup seals move past the ports and only when they are past, do they push fluid out to the wheel cylinders. Otherwise they would just push fluid back up into the reservoir and no pressure would ever reach the wheel cylinders.
If the booster push rod is correct, there is the least amount of freeplay possible to eliminate excess pedal travel but not so long that it pushes the cup seals past the ports. If that happens, there is no place for the expanding fluid to go and the brakes will self apply.
Generally, that works about to about 30 to 60 thousandths gap when the master plunger makes contact with booster pushrod. I tend to err on the side of caution and hold it around 30 or roughly the thickness of two normal business cards.
If anyone finds an affordable version of the measuring tool, post it up, I've been looking for one to recommend.
There is no external discernible difference between the stock and BBK master so the adjustment is the same.
At most, you should get a small bubble at each corner.
I tell folks when you have the right set up, you can drive like a real asshole and not care. Just a way to get them to try and understand that they work as good as they need to and then some.
We'll take all the help we can get. As I've related, they are a very tough sell. Folks will spend money on anything but brakes. And then they will spend money on anything but a big brake kit. The forums are full of all manner of "solutions" to avoid actually putting on something that works. I can't really say much because I look like I'm bashing the competition and no one really believes me anyway. What they don't see are the 100's of emails and phone calls I get telling me that they have tried those solutions and now they are ready for something that will actually work.
Yes, it is an outstanding example of what you can do if you pay attention to how things can be done well.Blaines’ character, product and knowledge have me sold.
As a really nice surprise when I was under the rig I put my magnetic flashlight on the painted black control arms - it fell off. That means they are either wood or aluminum.
As far as I can tell there is not one cheap part or compromise on this LJR.
Doesn't matter if you remember or not, I'm a phone call away and will always help solve a problem.
We need to be careful. My knowledge is highly centric to the TJ platform. I chat with the only brake expert I know who knows more than I do by leaps and bounds and there are some quirks in this vehicle that don't apply to everything else. We minorly butt heads at times over what works in other vehicles that doesn't work on the TJ.
Outstanding!
OP
They’re so good I’m trying to figure out how to get some air back in the system
Maybe grind a pinhole in a hard brake line...
