Another Dana 35 thread: conflicting advise about axle shafts and a gearing question

TdawgAlexander

TdawgAlexander

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I was reading through some old threads and see some conflicting opinions on the Dana 35 27 spline axle shafts. I was looking at the thread from 2018 called "Dana 35 beefing up" where Jerry recommended the 4340 27 spline (over 4140 since the 4340 is a little stronger) to a person in the Dana 35. Just a minute ago I read a thread from 2019 where Jerry advised against the 4340 as the bearings can cause failure to the axle shaft. I was just about to order some 4340 splines but I thought I remembered this thread somewhere. I am wanting some stronger axle shafts for my Dana 35. I was intending to go the super 35 route, but I don't have the funds to add a nice locker such as the detroit or the ARB with it along with regearing. So, I am thinking about buying chromoly 27 splines and getting a truetrac (I've read a while about the limitations of them but I think it will work OK for me) put in the rear. Maybe a powertrax no slip put in the front Dana 30. Currently, I am on 32 inch tires that are brand new and have the 3 speed auto with the I6. I am planning to go 4:10 gears so it will work with my current tires; however, I know that ratio is optimum for 33s. At the moment I really want 35s in the future and will likely add either a 4 inch kit with progressive springs or a 3 inch lift with a small body lift. I just want to make sure the axle shafts I get (likely the 27 spline 4140) are good enough for 35s if I decide to go that route in another year or two. Also, I would think the 4:10 gears would still work well with 35s. I know it the preferred ratio for the 33s, but it definitely can't be anything as bad as my 32s with 3:07s. Overall, the 32s and 3:07s aren't too terrible just the acceleration is slow and is terrible on hills. I have moved to the mountains for graduate school and there are a few pretty decent grades on the highway where I have to get in the big truck lane and top out at 45 mph unless I manually shift to second gear. Then I can get to about 55-60 reving around 3000 rpms. I don't like doing that though because I know I am putting a lot of strain on the transmission and gears.
266377295_234407575490985_3213144206537727328_n.jpg
 
Jerry Bransford said:
Yes, the correct Dana 35 shaft is made of 1541H steel, not 4340. I'll have to find that older thread and correct it. For 35's you need 30 spline 1541H shafts. That's called a Super 35 kit which comes with a choice of lockers.
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So, can I not use the 4140 27 spline axle shaft to have a stronger axle shaft than the factory steel one without going the super 35 route?

Here is the older thread: https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/dana-35-beefing-up.8258/
 
No you must use 1541H shafts in a Dana 35 axle. The outer bearings don't have an inner race so the bearings ride directly on the shaft. 1541H has the proper surface hardening to withstand the bearings. 4140/4340 does not, the bearings will wear down through the shaft surface. This shows the problem with 4340 shafts.

download-4.jpeg


A lot has been learned about Dana 35 shaft requirements in the years since that thread was made. I'll go back into it and update/correct some of my comments.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
No you must use 1541H shafts in a Dana 35 axle. The outer bearings don't have an inner race so the bearings ride directly on the shaft. 1541H has the proper surface hardening to withstand the bearings. 4140/4340 does not, the bearings will wear down through the shaft surface. This shows the problem with 4340 shafts.

View attachment 297781
Click to expand...
Jerry Bransford said:
No you must use 1541H shafts in a Dana 35 axle. The outer bearings don't have an inner race so the bearings ride directly on the shaft. 1541H has the proper surface hardening to withstand the bearings. 4140/4340 does not, the bearings will wear down through the shaft surface. This shows the problem with 4340 shafts.

View attachment 297781

A lot has been learned about Dana 35 shaft requirements in the years since that thread was made. I'll go back into it and update/correct some of my comments.
Click to expand...
I appreciate it. It sucks I am plagued with the Dana 35. Even after reading online it makes me scared to leave it stock (27 spline and open) and regear for my 32s (around $1000 an axle was my quote). But if I go the cheapest super 35 route I'm looking at around $2000 if I have gears added and a detroit locker. Then around another 1000 for regearing the front to match. With the reading that I have done it still sounds like the Dana 35 isn't really worth sinking that much money into. I've been looking for D44s and can find 3:73 geared ones for around $800. However, I really need 4:10s, so I'd have to pay for the axle install and regearing. The 4:10 D44s that I have found sure do sell quick and are pricey. I believe the last one I looked at sold for $1800.
 
TdawgAlexander said:
I was reading through some old threads and see some conflicting opinions on the Dana 35 27 spline axle shafts. I was looking at the thread from 2018 called "Dana 35 beefing up" where Jerry recommended the 4340 27 spline (over 4140 since the 4340 is a little stronger) to a person in the Dana 35. Just a minute ago I read a thread from 2019 where Jerry advised against the 4340 as the bearings can cause failure to the axle shaft. I was just about to order some 4340 splines but I thought I remembered this thread somewhere. I am wanting some stronger axle shafts for my Dana 35. I was intending to go the super 35 route, but I don't have the funds to add a nice locker such as the detroit or the ARB with it along with regearing. So, I am thinking about buying chromoly 27 splines and getting a truetrac (I've read a while about the limitations of them but I think it will work OK for me) put in the rear. Maybe a powertrax no slip put in the front Dana 30. Currently, I am on 32 inch tires that are brand new and have the 3 speed auto with the I6. I am planning to go 4:10 gears so it will work with my current tires; however, I know that ratio is optimum for 33s. At the moment I really want 35s in the future and will likely add either a 4 inch kit with progressive springs or a 3 inch lift with a small body lift. I just want to make sure the axle shafts I get (likely the 27 spline 4140) are good enough for 35s if I decide to go that route in another year or two. Also, I would think the 4:10 gears would still work well with 35s. I know it the preferred ratio for the 33s, but it definitely can't be anything as bad as my 32s with 3:07s. Overall, the 32s and 3:07s aren't too terrible just the acceleration is slow and is terrible on hills. I have moved to the mountains for graduate school and there are a few pretty decent grades on the highway where I have to get in the big truck lane and top out at 45 mph unless I manually shift to second gear. Then I can get to about 55-60 reving around 3000 rpms. I don't like doing that though because I know I am putting a lot of strain on the transmission and gears.View attachment 297776
Click to expand...
If you’re going to 35’s someday, there’s no reason to waste your hard-earned money on some 1541H shafts for the Dana 35. You need a S35, over and out.
 
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TdawgAlexander said:
I appreciate it. It sucks I am plagued with the Dana 35. Even after reading online it makes me scared to leave it stock (27 spline and open) and regear for my 32s (around $1000 an axle was my quote). But if I go the cheapest super 35 route I'm looking at around $2000 if I have gears added and a detroit locker. Then around another 1000 for regearing the front to match. With the reading that I have done it still sounds like the Dana 35 isn't really worth sinking that much money into. I've been looking for D44s and can find 3:73 geared ones for around $800. However, I really need 4:10s, so I'd have to pay for the axle install and regearing. The 4:10 D44s that I have found sure do sell quick and are pricey. I believe the last one I looked at sold for $1800.
Click to expand...
A Dana 35 is a good axle up to 33’s and open. I wheeled one hard for 2 years and never broke anything.
 
Welcome to the club, few years ago i bashed my head around that conflicting information too. Lots of reading just to come to a conclusion that nothing made sense, and every other post saying that my Dana 35 will explode by itself while i am asleep did not do any favor.

I have to ask if you asked yourself, why do you want 35"s and why do you need 35"s ?
If you have that figure out, analyze if what ever is your reasoning for it is worth to pursuing it.
Owning and modding a Jeep is a game, and you will pay to play it.

Truetrack with 27 splines on 31" tires will get you far and beyond, I have had plenty of fun with mine.

TdawgAlexander said:
I appreciate it. It sucks I am plagued with the Dana 35. Even after reading online it makes me scared to leave it stock (27 spline and open) and regear for my 32s (around $1000 an axle was my quote). But if I go the cheapest super 35 route I'm looking at around $2000 if I have gears added and a detroit locker. Then around another 1000 for regearing the front to match. With the reading that I have done it still sounds like the Dana 35 isn't really worth sinking that much money into. I've been looking for D44s and can find 3:73 geared ones for around $800. However, I really need 4:10s, so I'd have to pay for the axle install and regearing. The 4:10 D44s that I have found sure do sell quick and are pricey. I believe the last one I looked at sold for $1800.
Click to expand...

1. What JMT said
2. you are not making much sense here.

You want 35"S but building up for 32s that you currently own. You want to regear for ratio to satisfy your current needs, while knowing that it will not satisfy the future "I really want 35s" needs, yet you write it off as "can't be anything as bad as my". So you are upgrading to make life easier, yet downgrading while paying upgrade prices just because it is still better than what it was.
To alleviate the financial burden of the upgraded downgrade regear job, you are considering to swap for another axle that will cost roughly as much as the conversion job of your current Dana 35. This decision will also relieve you from the "plague" with open difs that scares you and makes you poop your pants.
YES! YES! and one more YES! in your head you are confidently marching into big boy 35s playground.
You are upgrading to D35s standards, or you are getting rusted worn out Dana 44, you are bringing your front up to speed to match rears downgraded upgrade ratio to meet "i really want 35s" needs/goals. The motivation behind all this is "i really want 35's", that is the steam that is pushing your coo-coo... i mean ... chu-chu train. But, its a bit pricey, thus somewhere in all that you make a logical and sound decision to proceed with gear ratio of upgraded downgrades and truetrack with 27 splines because that is what can handle your current 32s.

If you brain is still functional after my analysis, ask yourself, why do you want 35"s and why do you need 35"s ?
 
I am in NC and that is around the going rate. That same shop did quote $1500 not long ago so maybe he was a little off on his estimate or was including a LSD like a truetrac in that price. I do have a quote for regearing my front Dana 30 and adding in an 8.8 for right at $3000. It doesn't seem like too bad of a deal since it includes the necessary upgrades for the 8.8 such as the adjustable lower control arms, sye and driveshaft along with the obvious truss and install of the 8.8. If I go to a 4 inch lift later I will need the adjustable lower control arms, sye and driveshaft anyway, so it would be knocking all that out for me. Only moderate headache would be finding a LS 4:10 8.8 but I have found them and they go for $300-$500 in my area. Maybe a little negotiation room, I'm not sure. I could easily cut off the brackets and grind it down nice and flush for the truss to go in with minimal prep. I'm pretty handy when it comes to that and a good welder too. I just don't have a welder but I would be scared to possibly warp the housing since it's my first time doing it. And then you have to know the angles and all that, which would be a little "fun" to do.
L J said:
That is an outrageous price for simple regearing. Have you shopped around and/or contacted members in the local sub-forums here or local clubs in your area?
Click to expand...
 
eastbloc said:
Welcome to the club, few years ago i bashed my head around that conflicting information too. Lots of reading just to come to a conclusion that nothing made sense, and every other post saying that my Dana 35 will explode by itself while i am asleep did not do any favor.

I have to ask if you asked yourself, why do you want 35"s and why do you need 35"s ?
If you have that figure out, analyze if what ever is your reasoning for it is worth to pursuing it.
Owning and modding a Jeep is a game, and you will pay to play it.

Truetrack with 27 splines on 31" tires will get you far and beyond, I have had plenty of fun with mine.



1. What JMT said
2. you are not making much sense here.

You want 35"S but building up for 32s that you currently own. You want to regear for ratio to satisfy your current needs, while knowing that it will not satisfy the future "I really want 35s" needs, yet you write it off as "can't be anything as bad as my". So you are upgrading to make life easier, yet downgrading while paying upgrade prices just because it is still better than what it was.
To alleviate the financial burden of the upgraded downgrade regear job, you are considering to swap for another axle that will cost roughly as much as the conversion job of your current Dana 35. This decision will also relieve you from the "plague" with open difs that scares you and makes you poop your pants.
YES! YES! and one more YES! in your head you are confidently marching into big boy 35s playground.
You are upgrading to D35s standards, or you are getting rusted worn out Dana 44, you are bringing your front up to speed to match rears downgraded upgrade ratio to meet "i really want 35s" needs/goals. The motivation behind all this is "i really want 35's", that is the steam that is pushing your coo-coo... i mean ... chu-chu train. But, its a bit pricey, thus somewhere in all that you make a logical and sound decision to proceed with gear ratio of upgraded downgrades and truetrack with 27 splines because that is what can handle your current 32s.

If you brain is still functional after my analysis, ask yourself, why do you want 35"s and why do you need 35"s ?
Click to expand...
I definitely don't have a need for 35s, it's more of a want thing. My parent's have a JKU they bought with a nice 4 inch teraflex lift, fox reservoir shocks and 35s.
264291039_979590229306588_4784232955831241147_n.jpg

I enjoy driving it more than my TJ. The ride is different but I like it a lot. It seems to smooth everything out a lot. Now with having that jeep the 32s look tiny. But at least for the gearing, the recommended gearing for 35s and my transmission is 4:56. If I put those on now it would rev too high likely for my current tires. With 4:10s if I go to 35s, it should still be good, just not rev quite as high as 4:56. The possible axle swap is due to reading some people saying it is not worth doing the super 35 upgrade. Granted they may have never ran one, but it just makes me a little leery. Especially when, like I just commented above, I can do an 8.8 swap with adjustable rear lower control arms, sye and driveshaft along with installation of 8.8 and regearing my Dana 30 for right at $3000. The axle will take a little bit of time to find a 4:10 with a LS but I have found quite a few for anywhere from $300-500. So, the 8.8 swap would give me the SYE, driveshaft and adjustable lower control arm that I would need anyway if/when I go to a 4 inch lift.

Here is a TJ just like mine at the Jeep shop that I would like to build mine similar to (minus the lightbar). This isn't just a spontaneous thing, I've wanted this for years
266289534_575097140259871_6698921826865152640_n.jpg
 
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I have the same engine and transmission in my jeep. I went to 33's first and regeared to 4.10 as well. It worked wonderful. When I went up to 35's, I noticed a lot of power loss on the steep grades and some loss on even mild grades around town. 4.10's will work with 35's but you will be down shifting and running higher RPM's to pull hills. I am about to regear again to 4.56 to match the 35's. If you are considering the swap to 35's in a year or two, I would recommend going up to 4.56 now. It may be a little overkill for the 32's but you will not regret it once you make the switch. Buy once, cry once. I get to cry twice....
 
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Well I have pretty much decided I am going with the Revolution 30 spline axle shafts and more than likely a detroit locker (my only other option is the Yukon Grizzly, but I'm not sure how they differ from the Detroit Locker) in the rear of my Dana 35. Is there anything I need to worry about as far as the strength of the housing or anything else? Also, how high would I be revving if I ended up going 4:56 with my current 32s (I think one calculator said 3200 or so at 70, which would be too high. I use this Jeep on the highway a good bit and the speed limit is 70, while I usually go 75)? As I mentioned, it'll likely be a few years before I get a new lift and different tires. Still not sure if I'd go for 33s, 35s or maybe even an in between size. So, should I go 4:10s or 4:56? Also, my installer now uses Yukon gears. He used to install Revolution but now he goes through ECGS since they are only a few hours from me. He said the Yukons are easier to get, but he could get Revolution gears if I wanted. Should I push for revolution or just go for the Yukon? From what I see online, none of the gear sets say they are in stock on the Revolution website.
 
4.56 would be the right ratio for 35's with your 32RH 3-speed auto trans and it'll be perfect for the highway (and of course offroad). Rather than piecing things together for your rear axle I'd go with Revolution Gear's Super 35 kit with the Detroit Locker option. 4.10 would be good for 33's or 32's but I'd do a hard look for how long, if at all, before you'll be wanting to run 35's. Yukon's gears have lost their luster since they started sourcing their gears in China... something I recently learned.
 
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Make a decision on tire size then figure out the gear ratio. I'd recommend waiting for the Revolution Gears if you're not in a huge rush.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
4.56 would be the right ratio for 35's with your 32RH 3-speed auto trans and it'll be perfect for the highway (and of course offroad). Rather than piecing things together for your rear axle I'd go with Revolution Gear's Super 35 kit with the Detroit Locker option. 4.10 would be good for 33's or 32's but I'd do a hard look for how long, if at all, before you'll be wanting to run 35's. Yukon's gears have lost their luster since they started sourcing their gears in China... something I recently learned.
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that sucks about Yukon. I literally just ordered mine. Revolution always seems to be out of stock.
 
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