Another idle question

Stoney126

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Apologies if the answer and issue has been addressed. I've searched but haven't quite found the same set of concerns that match mine.

I have a 2004 lj with about 130xxx miles. Had somewhat of odd idle . It would fluctuate from 700 to 900 rpms when in park and when put in drive will go down to 700 rpm. With the gear in drive the rpm will surge after about 1 second off the brake and rpm will climb slightly and the jeep will increase speed and need to brake because its going to fast. Think waiting in a drive through and instead a crawl its like you giving it gas. I didn't pay attention to the rpm at those moments but if I were to guess I'd say 1100 to1200. Apply brake and drops down to 700 ish. When reverse is engaged (automatic btw) it does the same thing but the rev up and comes down revs up and comes down and the jeep reverse speed reflects veh rpm change.

Pulled the iac and cleaned though it wasn't to dirty but did not clean the housing. Later I ran about 3 4.5 oz can of throttle body clean through the iac port of the throttle body as instructed though some of the threads. I used some 6 year old non chlorinated stuff . I don't think this stuff has a shelf life.. the at idle fluctuations from 7to 900rpm seemed to have stopped sort of sometimes it stays at 900ish rpms and won't come down. Other times it will come down and doesn't fluctuate as much. The in gear rpm issues persist.

I hooked up my old my old modis. I have no codes. Looked at Iac steps . They show 62 requested and 62 steps performed with the engine off. Veh running requested steps is 0 witha flash of 1 and steps performed matches. Rpms shows 936 at idle and requested is 698 rpm but thisnin closed loop. in closed loop. Tps is showing .68 volts at idle . I didn't think to check map voltage .
Checked for vacuum leaks on the driver side of the veh and sprayed some throttle body cleaner to hear any change and nothing.

Was gonna pull the throttle body and make sure everything is really cleaned out but I'm stumped after that.
Lastly I believe this is related. In the mornings with temps in the 40 to 50s I have developed a extended crank. Key on crank for a second key off. Key on crank right over. Leaving for after work cranks right over. Work is about 9 hours. On the weekend I start my jeep later in the day when are higher and jeeps turns right over. This has started when the idle has been resting at 900 rpm

Thanks for any assistance
 
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Sounds like a bigger vacuum leak, maybe the brake booster or something related to that because you mentioned the surge related to the brakes?
Idle is at 900 ish with brake not applied . Ill recheck to see if any change with brake applied. I did give the limes a once over cracks or softness. And didn't see anything
 
Plug the vacuum going from the brake assist to the intake. Best to just pull the hose at the manifold and plug the manifold. That’ll rule out the brake assist. I’ve seen diaphragms leak and causes wanly stuff. You mentioned the brakes is the reason I’m suggesting this.
 
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Ok an update. Blocked the line to the booster no change in rpm. Rpm did raise Slightly once blockage removed then went back to 936 rpms. Put in drive and reverse and it take about 4 seconds for rpm to bump up. Rpms go to 900 ish rpms . No changes to tps sensor voltage and Iac see no change when this happens. I ran a AIS test with my modis. Command 900 rpm will match give or take few rpm. Went up 100 rpm increments to 2000 rpm . Rpm would be about 24rpms below requested rpm till 2000 were it went to 2018.when requesting the rpm to 800 lowest it will allow me to test rpm would not go below 936. Recheck all the vacuum lines and I see no issues. Sprayed a lil brake clean around the intake and nothing.

Iac steps still read 0 with a flat of one but went to 73 steps with engine off key on.

Also today I noticed that the rpm will hold the high 900 rpm when slowing for a stop then idle will drop down lower to about 800 rpms when at a complete stop. Left of the brake and 4 seconds and rpm bumps up and away I go.
 
When at idle, is the throttle plate completely closed as it should be? Are the throttle cables/cruise control cables free. Disconnect both and how does it idle?
 
Thottle plate is closed and cleaned. Cables look and feel fine . Don't feel any binding in the cables . Will remove em tomorrow and check
 
Removed cables and no change. Tps and map readings via scan tool numbers are in spec though I haven't checked the with a mechanical gauge.

Rpms remain at a steady 928 ish rpms . Only time it goes down is when the jeep has the brake applied and put in drive or reverse. When brake released and no gas applied the jeep will take about 4 seconds then rise to 928 rpms same for reverse. With brake applied in park or neutral rpm still stays at 928.

Commanded rpm rise is pretty close to requested rpm in 100 rpm increments unless I command below 900 rpm. Rechecked all my lines and everything looks good. Elbow for map sensor to the is looking good.

Pulled the TB completely off. Doesn't look bad but will give a through cleaning. Lol anybody know if they make a throttle.vody gasket kit. I broke the little gasket that attaches the iac plate to the throttle body

Also there should be no other parts to the iac and the plate that attaches right? Iac the oring at the base and gasket to the tb. Correct?

I may but cheap iac to see if I get any change or figure out how to get a smoke machine for leaks
 
So another update. Hooked up a vacuum gauge. Show 18-19 hg. Slow fluctuation followed the rpm change of 896 to 928 rpm. Not sure if the fluctuation is cause or effect of rpm change. Sprayed throttle body cleaner everywhere possible and got no rpm change. Ordered up a mopar IAc as some of the parts dealers are having sales so figure worth a shot if not I got a spare iac . Will update once I replace. Also if anyone has any input let me know
 
Another update. No lac in yet but felt like doing some testing. Plugged the port in the throttle body that leads to the iac the best I could with my fingers. Got a slight decrease in rpm. I also found air being pulled through the throttle plate . as posted above no air should being pulled at idle past the plate correct? I adjusted the set screw/nut all the way down and that allowed the plate to close more. This brought the rpm down to 736 -800 rpm. Not sure if I'm addressing the issue or masking it. I don't here of throttle plates wearing out .
 
So last update. May need to start another thread. So idle is good. Iac replaced using a mopar part. The idle still surges in drive or reverse once brake is released and jeep start to move. Takes 3 seconds to start to surge. Then stops when jeep is almost completely stopped. Unplugged iac and doesn't do it and it doesn't do it when cold.

My thoughts are this. I have pcm issue or a sensor issue or wiring issue. The pcm is either seeing a load and is adjusting idle for a load that isn't there. Wiring issue causing the same thing or the pcm is just ending the wrong info.

Honestly its not a horrible increase in speed when the surge takes place but for trail use I would like to not have unexpected speed increases. Of course I could just unplug the iac. I'd like to figure this out but kind of stumped