Another Random Misfire Problem

jurassicvic

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Aug 21, 2020
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Houston
HELP! I’m at my ends with this problem. I've read tons and tons of post about similar issues but haven't found a solution to my problem. 2002 Jeep Wrangler 4.0 automatic 153k miles. I have a check engine light P0302 and P0305 along with P0300.
There is times where it will switch from cylinder 2 and 5 to 3 and 4, but it’s usually 2 and 5. It seems to happen after around 2800 rpms - 3000 rmps or going past 60mph.
What I have replaced:
Coil pack - NGK
Spark plugs (autolite XP985)
Camshaft position sensor - Dorman
Crankshaft position sensor - Orielly
Ran seafoam through vacuum lines and gas
Added insulation to the injectors
Checked vacuum lines.
Checked compression
It idles reasonably normal and the misfire isn’t noticeable. But there has been times where I’m driving on the freeway and I have lost a cylinder or two. Once you turn off the vehicle and turn back on it goes back to normal.
I checked the camshaft position module looked ok visually but does show a little bit of corrosion.

Ended up taking it to a local jeep shop and they thought they fixed the issue but it didn't.

Have anyone experienced a similar issue like this before and found a solution?
 
Have you thoroughly inspected the wiring harness for shorts in the wiring?
 
Yes, I believe I've inspected it and so has 2 shops. Is there a specific area of concern? I know behind the valve cover is one place to look

Not that I know of, but I know that often times with issues like this the solution ends up being a very small break in the wiring harness somewhere. Of course sometimes those can be very difficult to find.
 
Probably, though you can easily do a few tests yourself.

You can unbolt the converter assembly and peek inside. If it looks like clean, open honeycomb, it is good. If it looks black, clogged, or even missing, it is likely bad. If you hear pieces rattling around inside, that is also a sign of a bad converter.
 
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I ran into this same problem a couple years ago when I was getting several codes all at once on my 2001. My problem went away when I removed the iridium plugs if that’s the xp985 ones you are running now and replaced my header because my precats were garbage. I would also only run mopar sensors. It seems you have a mixture of box store brands. Our jeeps love mopar sensors.
 
I ran into this same problem a couple years ago when I was getting several codes all at once on my 2001. My problem went away when I removed the iridium plugs if that’s the xp985 ones you are running now and replaced my header because my precats were garbage. I would also only run mopar sensors. It seems you have a mixture of box store brands. Our jeeps love mopar sensors.
What did you replace your iridium plugs with?
 
Short version: a Mopar crank sensor fixed my similar issues as the OP this week after trying an Oreilly's crank sensor.

I watched this video the other day:

Wish I had a scope......

Long version: too long to type out while at work.
 
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Short version: a Mopar crank sensor fixed my similar issues as the OP this week after trying an Oreilly's crank sensor.

I watched this video the other day:

Wish I had a scope......

Long version: too long to type out while at work.

what issues were you experiencing?
 
Ah, so, the long version? Ok, but only because I'm on vacation, LOL.

Once in a blue moon, on first start up for the last couple months, I might get one "miss" a block from the house. Then no issue. Almost made me wonder if the new fuel pump was not up to the old pump's performance.

Until a week and a half back. On the way to work (2.5 mile, 4 minute drive), it started missing, bucking and no power. Almost didn't make it to work. Barely made it home. Would idle almost perfect. But a slight miss approaching 2k, and definitely cutout closer to 3k. Waaaaaaa waaaaaaa wa wa wa akakakakakaka waaa waaaaa waa akaka waaaa. Just barely wanted to run. Among the already present fault codes, I now had the following:

P0303 Cylinder 3 misfire detected
p0304 Cylinder 4 misfire detected
P0340 Camshaft position sensor "A" circuit
P0352 Ignition coil "B" primary/secondary circuit
P0353 ignition coil " C" primary/secondary circuit
P1391 something something whatever
P0300 Random /multiple cylinder misfire detected

Over the course of 3 or 4 days, I had most of the above. First, 3 or 4, and then do some checking, then the rest of them in addition to the first ones. Ordered a Mopar CAM sensor off ebay, as I was led to believe it might be discontinued, so ordered one hoping it would be authentic and new. It had not shown up yet, when I decided to pick up a crank sensor and cam sensor from Oreilly's.

I have a used engine harness that I bought last fall in preparation of fixing any bad or corroded wires, like I found at the Bank 2, sensor 2 connector. I had decided that I would pop it on, in addition to the new aftermarket crank sensor last Sunday. Started at the crank sensor. Found the bolt loose. Hmmmm. Went ahead and replaced it, as its history was unknown to me. Did not replace the harness. Just the crank sensor. Drove it for 20 minutes. Ran perfect. I thought, "Is it playing with me because it's only 70 degrees out and something something whatever isn't hot yet?" Decided to drive it to lunch, when it started to softly miss like it had before. Not as violent. Like you had a pillow over it, LOL. Borrowed a car to run home and grab the aftermarket cam sensor. Put it on and.....it was as bad as ever. Barely 20-25 mph on the way home, took back roads. Even at stoplights, it was barely running. Back home, I put the old original Mopar cam sensor back on.

I work in a Ford parts department, so I decided to call the people I buy my Mopar stuff from the next day. GEEP4ME is not my first Chrys/Dod/Jeep product. Had them look, double check the info I had, and it turns out the crank sensor WAS still available, as was the cam sensor (but on backorder, but I had an ebay purchase coming). They ran the part number on the locator and a couple local dealers showed the crank sensor in stock. The oreilly sensor: $33. Mopar: $141. (sigh)

But I bought it. Waited a day to get the will to live to come back, and changed out the aftermarket sensor for the mopar. Cleared the codes and rechecked for faults. The list of codes that appeared made me wonder if it'd been struck by lightning, LOL.

Screenshot_20200818-195402_Torque.jpg


And there were more.


But it was running fine. Cleared the codes again, and this time, I only had 3 codes, ones that I have had for almost as long as I've owned it. Yay! Progress. It's been running fine since. I even had a used processor coming, just in case. But even with that, you never know what you're getting.

Somewhere in the middle of all that, I stumbled upon that video I posted. I too, had read all that I could. Spent most of last weekend reading up on any thread across the web, trying to find a common link. One guy, replaced everything that could be replaced and still didn't have a working Jeep. Another replaced all the sensors and coil, and it ran fine. Still had 2 codes though. Another owner, did the same, but would have a miss every now and then out on the highway. Another put 4 aftermarket crank sensors in and then the 5th was a Mopar sensor curing everything. So, I gambled. With the scope in that video though, that would pretty much show exactly the issue. The problem is finding a guy local to me, or you, or wherever someone is, that has the same knowledge and tools. The Ford dealer where I work, doesn't have anyone that knows a Jeep system, like they might know a Ford system. Plus finding someone willing to work on it on the side, well, who knows. I do know a guy, with all my wholesale contacts, that I know is smart enough, probably smarter than the guy in the video. I was about to pick his brain, when the mopar crank sensor seemingly fixed all the recent rough running and misfires.

I could go on, about how many of us (yes, me too) at least with this particular set of running issues, are not much more than parts changers/guessers. But without 2 or 3 or $4,000 to spend on a scope and the experience in using it, you might as well pony up for the OEM parts to throw at it. Otherwise, hopefully the first guy you take it to (I've been there myself) DOES find the issue. You're going to pay him every penny he's worth for however many hours it takes him to fix it PLUS the OEM sensor price, provided he doesn't mark up the list price higher like most shops do. If you're unlucky, he'll be the 2nd or 3rd, maybe even the 4th guy you take it to.

Anyway, that is that.
 
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Ah, so, the long version? Ok, but only because I'm on vacation, LOL.

Once in a blue moon, on first start up for the last couple months, I might get one "miss" a block from the house. Then no issue. Almost made me wonder if the new fuel pump was not up to the old pump's performance.

Until a week and a half back. On the way to work (2.5 mile, 4 minute drive), it started missing, bucking and no power. Almost didn't make it to work. Barely made it home. Would idle almost perfect. But a slight miss approaching 2k, and definitely cutout closer to 3k. Waaaaaaa waaaaaaa wa wa wa akakakakakaka waaa waaaaa waa akaka waaaa. Just barely wanted to run. Among the already present fault codes, I now had the following:

P0303 Cylinder 3 misfire detected
p0304 Cylinder 4 misfire detected
P0340 Camshaft position sensor "A" circuit
P0352 Ignition coil "B" primary/secondary circuit
P0353 ignition coil " C" primary/secondary circuit
P1391 something something whatever
P0300 Random /multiple cylinder misfire detected

Over the course of 3 or 4 days, I had most of the above. First, 3 or 4, and then do some checking, then the rest of them in addition to the first ones. Ordered a Mopar CAM sensor off ebay, as I was led to believe it might be discontinued, so ordered one hoping it would be authentic and new. It had not shown up yet, when I decided to pick up a crank sensor and cam sensor from Oreilly's.

I have a used engine harness that I bought last fall in preparation of fixing any bad or corroded wires, like I found at the Bank 2, sensor 2 connector. I had decided that I would pop it on, in addition to the new aftermarket crank sensor last Sunday. Started at the crank sensor. Found the bolt loose. Hmmmm. Went ahead and replaced it, as its history was unknown to me. Did not replace the harness. Just the crank sensor. Drove it for 20 minutes. Ran perfect. I thought, "Is it playing with me because it's only 70 degrees out and something something whatever isn't hot yet?" Decided to drive it to lunch, when it started to softly miss like it had before. Not as violent. Like you had a pillow over it, LOL. Borrowed a car to run home and grab the aftermarket cam sensor. Put it on and.....it was as bad as ever. Barely 20-25 mph on the way home, took back roads. Even at stoplights, it was barely running. Back home, I put the old original Mopar cam sensor back on.

I work in a Ford parts department, so I decided to call the people I buy my Mopar stuff from the next day. GEEP4ME is not my first Chrys/Dod/Jeep product. Had them look, double check the info I had, and it turns out the crank sensor WAS still available, as was the cam sensor (but on backorder, but I had an ebay purchase coming). They ran the part number on the locator and a couple local dealers showed the crank sensor in stock. The oreilly sensor: $33. Mopar: $141. (sigh)

But I bought it. Waited a day to get the will to live to come back, and changed out the aftermarket sensor for the mopar. Cleared the codes and rechecked for faults. The list of codes that appeared made me wonder if it'd been struck by lightning, LOL.

View attachment 185389

And there were more.


But it was running fine. Cleared the codes again, and this time, I only had 3 codes, ones that I have had for almost as long as I've owned it. Yay! Progress. It's been running fine since. I even had a used processor coming, just in case. But even with that, you never know what you're getting.

Somewhere in the middle of all that, I stumbled upon that video I posted. I too, had read all that I could. Spent most of last weekend reading up on any thread across the web, trying to find a common link. One guy, replaced everything that could be replaced and still didn't have a working Jeep. Another replaced all the sensors and coil, and it ran fine. Still had 2 codes though. Another owner, did the same, but would have a miss every now and then out on the highway. Another put 4 aftermarket crank sensors in and then the 5th was a Mopar sensor curing everything. So, I gambled. With the scope in that video though, that would pretty much show exactly the issue. The problem is finding a guy local to me, or you, or wherever someone is, that has the same knowledge and tools. The Ford dealer where I work, doesn't have anyone that knows a Jeep system, like they might know a Ford system. Plus finding someone willing to work on it on the side, well, who knows. I do know a guy, with all my wholesale contacts, that I know is smart enough, probably smarter than the guy in the video. I was about to pick his brain, when the mopar crank sensor seemingly fixed all the recent rough running and misfires.

I could go on, about how many of us (yes, me too) at least with this particular set of running issues, are not much more than parts changers/guessers. But without 2 or 3 or $4,000 to spend on a scope and the experience in using it, you might as well pony up for the OEM parts to throw at it. Otherwise, hopefully the first guy you take it to (I've been there myself) DOES find the issue. You're going to pay him every penny he's worth for however many hours it takes him to fix it PLUS the OEM sensor price, provided he doesn't mark up the list price higher like most shops do. If you're unlucky, he'll be the 2nd or 3rd, maybe even the 4th guy you take it to.

Anyway, that is that.

Thats where I am currently at. I took it to Twisted Metal Concepts here in Houston thinking they were Jeep diagnostician experts and I was way wrong. They thought they fixed the misfire, but they didn't lol. Charged me for their diagnostics anyways and theyre exact advice was "throw parts at it. I have no idea why its misfiring." Thats pathetic for a shop to say that.

So now I am on the search for a REAL shop that knows how to diagnose properly. I was referred to 2 shops but I am deathly afraid of how much this is going to cost ON TOP of all the parts and work I've already had done on the vehicle. I feel like the light is near..
 
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UPDATE:

Took it to another shop and they're confident it's carbon build up on the valves. Anyone experience a misfire code due to carbon buildup?
 
UPDATE:

Took it to another shop and they're confident it's carbon build up on the valves. Anyone experience a misfire code due to carbon buildup?
It can happen, especially on a vehicle used at low speeds or on mostly short trips.

There are a few things you can do to prevent and clean carbon buildup:
  1. Italian tuneup - occasionally rev the vehicle all the way up to redline with full throttle while accelerating or climbing a hill, preferably at least once each drive cycle. The heat and vibration helps shake and cook off small carbon deposits. More aggressive driving = fewer carbon deposits.
  2. Buy only Top Tier gas, when possible. Read through this website: https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/ and buy brands on that list when possible. The extra detergents in the gas make a big difference on carbon deposits in the engine.
  3. Seafoam - this is more of an attempt to fix rather than prevent, but running seafoam through the throttle body often helps to loosen carbon deposits. When followed by an aggressive Italian tuneup, this method can be rather effective at removing carbon deposits.
 
It can happen, especially on a vehicle used at low speeds or on mostly short trips.

There are a few things you can do to prevent and clean carbon buildup:
  1. Italian tuneup - occasionally rev the vehicle all the way up to redline with full throttle while accelerating or climbing a hill, preferably at least once each drive cycle. The heat and vibration helps shake and cook off small carbon deposits. More aggressive driving = fewer carbon deposits.
  2. Buy only Top Tier gas, when possible. Read through this website: https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/ and buy brands on that list when possible. The extra detergents in the gas make a big difference on carbon deposits in the engine.
  3. Seafoam - this is more of an attempt to fix rather than prevent, but running seafoam through the throttle body often helps to loosen carbon deposits. When followed by an aggressive Italian tuneup, this method can be rather effective at removing carbon deposits.

Thanks for the tip. I guess I could try to run seafoam again followed by this "Italian tune up" haha
 
Thanks for the tip. I guess I could try to run seafoam again followed by this "Italian tune up" haha
You can remove the air cleaner tube and pour it (slowly) through the IAC and throttle body. If you prop the gas open slightly, then you can feed it through the throttle body directly. It also reduces the odds of stalling.