Chasing my tail another smog test thread

1515art

1515art

TJ Enthusiast
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Jun 14, 2018
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This is weird… it started (maybe) having my battery draining if the Jeep sat for a few days odyssey agm 2 years old I kind of think rough roads might have been its demise? It relates because my smog test is due and the battery issue has my emissions all pending, so I run the cycle and see a pending p0133, I put in 3 sensors 1/1 1/2 2/1 and 2/2 the connector is hard to get a grip on and is stuck so I skip it cause it was not throwing a code figuring I’ll do it after smogging the tj.

Run my drive cycle and a new code p2096 1/2 lean so I throw the old sensor back in same code, I dig down the damn pre cat is still kind of hot and get the connector off install 2/2 run my drive cycle and I get 4 milf ( malfunction indicator light I’m f***ed) light is on p2098 p0133 p0153 p2096 with all 4 new Napa sensors.

So I swap in my untuned wrangler fix pcm, its not running great bucks a little on acceleration drive my cycle pull into Orilieys auto parts plug in my scan tool no codes 2 open heart and evap emission pending. drive home order spark plugs check my scan tool it’s still running crummy but no codes and it’s ready for smog?

Other tests smoke up he tail pipe no exhaust leaks, fuel pressure at the rail 60#s at idle don’t hear any vacuum leaks… no codes yet. So I’m planning unless at the last second something happens to get he smog done and I’ll figure this out later when the new plugs arrive, these are different plugs than standard due to the stroker engine. I’m going to order new injectors too once I decide what I want put the new plugs in and see how it goes the best it’s run is with the tuned pcm and 4 new O2 sensors but it’s running a little rough so I hope new plugs and injectors help that. all the other sensors are about 2 years old.

If anyone has any suggestions I’m all ears, the spark plugs are scheduled for delivery on the 13th.
 
OldBuzzard said:
NTK / NGK sensors are the ONLY ones which will work right in a TJ (and Mopar, of course, which were made by NTK / NGK).
For the 2005/2006, you need these: NTK / NGK 23018, 23159, 23160, 23158
Click to expand...

Rickyd, old buzzard thank you for reading and the tip on the sensors, That’s what I bought at the Napa and what I replaced they were around two years old. I’m on rough, rocky and washboard roads a lot heading into mining claims and the ride at speed I’m guessing the ceramic inside the sensor probably gets cracked And they fail early.

IMG_0746.jpeg
 
I’m actually thinking I should just putting in stock injectors, Golin calls for 24# injectors I’m just not sure what the stock injectors are rated at? The PCM is going to force the fuel trims into the ratio set by he vehicle computer programming any way right now my main pcm is tuned down with the 24# seems like the stock pcm with smaller injectors wold be about the same except for wot so there may be an issue there down sizing.
 
Who did your tune? Did you record data with a wideband for them?

Flyin ryan performance does a good job
 
The tune I’m not sure about, he went by the name doc and had a couple guys working for him his shop was in the neon district in Vegas. He did seem to know what he was doing but at the same time he was kinda shady projecting a slightly paranoid personality but who knows there’s all types and i didn’t have the wide band sensor installed yet (I didn’t know then what the wide band was?) so i couldn’t remote tune and needed to find out what was going on with the new engine.

He had trouble tuning did what he could adjusting down the fuel trims and sent me on my way to check for ground straps and vacuum leaks it was running rich before and I was worried about fuel washing plus a host of other issues, overheating, poor performance were two biggies, he’d retune depending on what I found.

what I found were missing ground straps (what he suggested) then I discovered all the old sensors reused from the blown 180k mile 4.0. Replacing sensors and attaching straps it was still throwing codes, smoke testing showed the intake manifold had an open gap by a mm or two, fixing that replacing the crap aftermarket radiator with a factory one it was running pretty good no more mil. this took nearly a year to source and sort out I was done with weird and the Jeep was running OK, the final nail in the doc coffin was Mark saying the wrangler fix pcm could not be tuned.
Rickyd said:
Who did your tune? Did you record data with a wideband for them?

Flyin ryan performance does a good job
Click to expand...
 
i headed over to get my smog test this morning and the heat and evap were not ready when I got there and I had 3 pending codes so I headed back home and swapped in my original Chrysler PCM that had hard shift issues. the results were basically the same as the two wrangler fix PCMs.

I changed spark plugs, swapped in a different set of fuel injectors, put in my spare mopar mass air flow sensor, smoke tested the intake no leaks, dbl checked fuel pressure, swapped PCMs again, checked exhaust flow at the tail pipe (feel unrestricted) still getting multiple codes p0133, p0153, p2096, p2098, p 0298.

I’m running out of ideas and options I think. So far I’ve run 3 different pcm’s, changed all 4 o2 sensors with NTk, new mass air flow sensor, no exhaust restriction, no exhaust leak, no intake leak, different fuel injectors, new spark plugs the old ones looked even and good, fuel pressure 57 ignition on 60 at idle, I’m keeping fuel level between 3/4 and full, new battery (I did add a battery cut off switch with the new interstate AGM group 34 battery.

in the morning I can swap out the3 likely sensors with the old ones 1/2 2/1, 2/2 and see I guess, there is a tsa bulletin modifying wiring to the PCM?
 
Last edited:
That TSB only fixes the "Monitors Not Ready" problem, which doesn't throw any codes at all. Since you have a bunch of trouble codes, I don't think the TSB will help.

Since your codes all seem to clump around the O2 sensors, have you checked the wiring to that neighborhood? Maybe a wiring harness got crushed, or rubbed raw. Maybe your upper cats have a problem.
 
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1515art said:
i headed over to get my smog test this morning and the heat and evap were not ready when I got there and I had 3 pending codes so I headed back home and swapped in my original Chrysler PCM that had hard shift issues. the results were basically the same as the two wrangler fix PCMs.

I changed spark plugs, swapped in a different set of fuel injectors, put in my spare mopar mass air flow sensor, smoke tested the intake no leaks, dbl checked fuel pressure, swapped PCMs again, checked exhaust flow at the tail pipe (feel unrestricted) still getting multiple codes p0133, p0153, p2096, p2098, p 0298.

I’m running out of ideas and options I think. So far I’ve run 3 different pcm’s, changed all 4 o2 sensors with NTk, new mass air flow sensor, no exhaust restriction, no exhaust leak, no intake leak, different fuel injectors, new spark plugs the old ones looked even and good, fuel pressure 57 ignition on 60 at idle, I’m keeping fuel level between 3/4 and full, new battery (I did add a battery cut off switch with the new interstate AGM group 34 battery.

in the morning I can swap out the3 likely sensors with the old ones 1/2 2/1, 2/2 and see I guess, there is a tsa bulletin modifying wiring to the PCM?
Click to expand...

your evap system doesn't do the check unless the tank is between 3/4 and 1/4 and a cold start ...it's not a constant running test.
 
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OldBuzzard said:
That TSB only fixes the "Monitors Not Ready" problem, which doesn't throw any codes at all. Since you have a bunch of trouble codes, I don't think the TSB will help.

Since your codes all seem to clump around the O2 sensors, have you checked the wiring to that neighborhood? Maybe a wiring harness got crushed, or rubbed raw. Maybe your upper cats have a problem.
Click to expand...

macleanflood said:
The only thing making a lot of sensors not work would be a break or short in the 5v wire.

-Mac
Click to expand...

ahhh, wiring that’s the most daunting I don’t really know where to begin looking but yep I think my wiring in general looks tired and worn in a lot of places with plenty of spots the protection is frayed mostly in the places you have to contort to see and access is a couple fingers jammed into tight spaces, sigh…

my last sensor swap I had issues with Napa NTK O2 sensors and wound up ordering a set from the dealer I only went with Napa this time because they had them in stock and they are supposed to be the same? The Multiple O2 codes didn’t happen until I started changing the sensors bank 1 upstream slow this was the code setting this in motion and now that’s the only one not throwing a code? I changed the first 3 1/1, 2/1 and 2/2 first skipping 1/2 because the connector was tight and it’s jammed in a tight spot. But on all of them I’m super carful and was careful not to twist any of the wires or pull on them. After the codes on the first swap I managed to shove enough of my self up into the small space I could grip the connector with fingers from both hands and slip it open. I think it’s codes started after the swap, but I im not positive about anything.
 
Start with reading the voltage at the connectors to the sensors. It's pretty safe to assume one of the ECUs was providing correct voltage.

Work your way through the FSM and the wiring diagrams.

If you don't have voltage at a plug, work your way to the next connector or splice point in the path. Should be able to isolate the stretch of wire that's failed.

Or go nuclear and deloom... remove the tape and everything and get a good look.

I had constant issues with my oil pressure sensor until I frame and tub swapped my 97...long story... while I had the tub off I rewrapped and cleaned up a lot of the harness.

-Mac
 
Mac thank you, a place to start. Sounds like all 4 sensors share a common power source and ground at some point with the signal wire specific to the injector?
 
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I believe that short of the IAC all sensors share a common 5v power source that's supplied by the ECU.

If you're not getting that voltage to the sensors then they won't work.

-Mac
 
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tr21triton said:
your evap system doesn't do the check unless the tank is between 3/4 and 1/4 and a cold start ...it's not a constant running test.
Click to expand...

Jerry thank you for the clarification, I saw the fuel tank requirement reading through drive cycle suggestions in different threads on the subject of getting your emissions ready for testing and guessed it might be for the evap monitor but did not have any other confirmation till now. I’ve topped off the tank a couple times doing drive cycles but if that only affects that monitor, in Nevada that can be incomplete and still pass the test.

I did a little looking at the wiring to the sensors yesterday and probing around with my dvm and a simple test light, nothing turned up yet as a short or open, I’m still working on that. I also looked at the O2S voltage readings the seem to be within range, the timing of the heat cycle I don’t think my scan tool can read that.

The fuel trends on the untuned WFix PCM are out of range but I think that is both normal for the stroker and the reason for some of the pending MIL the LTFT was far into the negative numbers at -25 due I guess to the larger throttle body and porting.but is interpreted as if it were a vacuum leak by the PCM? I put the PCM that has the fuel trims altered back in last night to look again more closely drove around a mile and stopping to check two of the emission monitors cleared only the heater and evap were incomplete, the drive was to short to trigger a MIL or messing with wiring had some impact on the wiring if it has a wiring issue? I’m a little confused on that I thought the negative numbers reflected a rich not lean condition and the sensor codes were for it running lean but I may be misinterpreting this.

Most of the drive cycle recommendations are a little nebulous on clearing the heater monitor, but I did find one that had additional steps several contributors said worked quickly clearing the monitor, that was in addition to a cold start with a two minute warm up, driving 55mph steady for 5 minutes coasting without brakes to 20mph then increasing speed back up to 55mph repeating this a second time if the heater monitor was still incomplete. I’m heading out at 4AM to give this a shot on Saturday morning open roads and see if I can get the emissions ready before I trigger a pending code or MIL, I’m not sure if a pending code affects the test or not?
 
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