Chevy Vortec 4200 (Atlas family engine)

[mrblaine]

View attachment 644024

With the exhaust routed above the transmission housing that close , did you need to compensate with a larger transmission cooler, or was there no noticeable difference in ATF temps ? I'm also going to make an assumption that the exhaust was wrapped in that area afterwards to mitigate heat buildup on the transmission and floorboards?

You sorta answered your question with the wrap assumption. Yes it was wrapped but more for the floorboard to keep those temps lower and then the tub was treated with heat shield on the bottom side. There was also a large trans cooler installed. Not because it was required, but because we could and why not?

That wasn't really the point though. I was pointing out that regardless, unless you want to stay with stock suspension geometry, a motor swap will create issues that are rarely discussed and should be so the total package can be addressed and you don't wind up limiting yourself later on and being sad over your motor choice.

I think the biggest disability we encounter is the inability to get out of our own skin for a few moments and ponder things from a different perspective. It would be pretty sad to discover that your shiny new motor is a lot of fun to drive faster in the rough stuff where more uptravel and some nice shocks can be very beneficial only to figure out your motor placement now prevents that from happening. Not much different than Jerry saying that because the Anti-rock worked for him and his questionable standards, there was no need for anyone to run anything else.

All I care about is keeping the door open for folks to ponder all the ramifications and not wind up stuck with something that may not let them get to where they want to be in a few years if their current value system changes.

 

[Obi-Wan]

You sorta answered your question with the wrap assumption. Yes it was wrapped but more for the floorboard to keep those temps lower and then the tub was treated with heat shield on the bottom side. There was also a large trans cooler installed. Not because it was required, but because we could and why not?

That wasn't really the point though. I was pointing out that regardless, unless you want to stay with stock suspension geometry, a motor swap will create issues that are rarely discussed and should be so the total package can be addressed and you don't wind up limiting yourself later on and being sad over your motor choice.

I think the biggest disability we encounter is the inability to get out of our own skin for a few moments and ponder things from a different perspective. It would be pretty sad to discover that your shiny new motor is a lot of fun to drive faster in the rough stuff where more uptravel and some nice shocks can be very beneficial only to figure out your motor placement now prevents that from happening. Not much different than Jerry saying that because the Anti-rock worked for him and his questionable standards, there was no need for anyone to run anything else.

All I care about is keeping the door open for folks to ponder all the ramifications and not wind up stuck with something that may not let them get to where they want to be in a few years if their current value system changes.

I agree.

Im my case, I only have a basic 2.5" lift on my TJ. I was able to route my driver side exhaust around the front of the engine and still have clearance for the front driveshaft at full flex.

I knew when installing the 5.3 that in the future, I'd be making much bigger upgrades that will facilitate a new exhaust system to go along with the new suspension/axles, but i knew this wouldn't be for 6-7 years, so I didn't care.

My end goal is to do a similar suspension setup to the one you did for this LJ now that im not a broke kid anymore. I've done a lot of research, but are still pieceing the plan together so I do it right.

 

[mrblaine]

I agree.

Im my case, I only have a basic 2.5" lift on my TJ. I was able to route my driver side exhaust around the front of the engine and still have clearance for the front driveshaft at full flex.

I knew when installing the 5.3 that in the future, I'd be making much bigger upgrades that will facilitate a new exhaust system to go along with the new suspension/axles, but i knew this wouldn't be for 6-7 years, so I didn't care.

My end goal is to do a similar suspension setup to the one you did for this LJ now that im not a broke kid anymore. I've done a lot of research, but are still pieceing the plan together so I do it right.
View attachment 644042

A gent pulled in with a 5.3 done by a local shop, they centered the motor so they could run dual exhaust. He seriously wanted the mid-arm, his stock upper control arm mount at the frame had to have the bolt go in from the outside due to the exhaust. No way the mid arm upper is going in there. It was a pretty sad day for him since he was following or trying to follow his buddy around on the harder trails. I built his buddy's rig with our normal up-travel and just the basic outboarding we do. He was tired of not being able to keep up on the way to the trails and getting his ass handed to him on the trails.

So again, a few more instances of folks not knowing what they don't know.

In your case, IIRC, you can sneak the exhaust through with the mid arm upper mount and arm if you run the CTS manifolds.

 

[Obi-Wan]

A gent pulled in with a 5.3 done by a local shop, they centered the motor so they could run dual exhaust. He seriously wanted the mid-arm, his stock upper control arm mount at the frame had to have the bolt go in from the outside due to the exhaust. No way the mid arm upper is going in there. It was a pretty sad day for him since he was following or trying to follow his buddy around on the harder trails. I built his buddy's rig with our normal up-travel and just the basic outboarding we do. He was tired of not being able to keep up on the way to the trails and getting his ass handed to him on the trails.

So again, a few more instances of folks not knowing what they don't know.

In your case, IIRC, you can sneak the exhaust through with the mid arm upper mount and arm if you run the CTS manifolds.

Im running 2010 Camaro manifolds. They hug the block and dump at the rear with a smaller two bolt flange.

Keep in mind, I was building this thing in a creaky old barn with whatever money I could scrape together. I got the 5.3 for free and rebuilt a transmission and transfer case for cheap because it was all i could afford at the time. So far it's been rock solid, but it deserves better, and soon will.

And yeah, I completely understand the plight of people asking for what they don't understand. My job requires me to talk with air force big wigs that don't have any clue of mechanical infrastructure, yet somehow know exactly what can and cannot be done with a given constraint, despite not understanding how a 12v battery works. I wish I were joking about that last bit.

I wish you were located on the east coast. I'd hire you to build my suspension in a heartbeat.

 

[mrblaine]

Im running 2010 Camaro manifolds. They hug the block and dump at the rear with a smaller two bolt flange.
View attachment 644051

I am not aware of the manifold nuances other than there are a crapton to chose from.

And yeah, I completely understand the plight of people asking for what they don't understand. My job requires me to talk with air force big wigs that don't have any clue of mechanical infrastructure, yet somehow know exactly what can and cannot be done with a given constraint, despite not understanding how a 12v battery works. I wish I were joking about that last bit.

I'm aware, I recently spent a couple of hours debating conspiracy theories with a young person that managed to graduate from high school and could not count to 12. I had to go through all the small packs of 4 fender washers because we found several with 5 in them. I didn't fire him because he couldn't count to 12, I fired him because of his response to not being able to. He said it wasn't a big deal and it was not something he practiced doing every day therefore he should not be expected to know something he did not practice. He had no clue that not being able to count to 12 was a problem. I had no clue that asking someone if they could do work would ever involve making sure they could count to 12.

I wish you were located on the east coast. I'd hire you to build my suspension in a heartbeat.

I could walk you through the mid arm install in few easy phone calls.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

A huge advantage of the DOHC VVT setup on that engine is the breadth of the torque curve.

Fairly average 4.0 curve

 

[Abendage]

Im running 2010 Camaro manifolds. They hug the block and dump at the rear with a smaller two bolt flange.
View attachment 644051
Keep in mind, I was building this thing in a creaky old barn with whatever money I could scrape together. I got the 5.3 for free and rebuilt a transmission and transfer case for cheap because it was all i could afford at the time. So far it's been rock solid, but it deserves better, and soon will.

And yeah, I completely understand the plight of people asking for what they don't understand. My job requires me to talk with air force big wigs that don't have any clue of mechanical infrastructure, yet somehow know exactly what can and cannot be done with a given constraint, despite not understanding how a 12v battery works. I wish I were joking about that last bit.

I wish you were located on the east coast. I'd hire you to build my suspension in a heartbeat.

For what it’s worth since I don’t understand, when I was installing my motor, I knew my long term plans were to run a 3 link in the front with longer than stock arms and I’m running the same manifolds you are. With the afore mentioned motor mounts with the Camaro manifolds, in my build, within the constraints of the factory bumpstop tower, I have sufficient room to run a 1.5” upper link back to the firewall at least, at full bump with no extension. The afore mentioned motor mounts use the factory motor mount horn for their location and are retained, and from my measurements, with my set up, that is the limiting factor if decided to need more uptravel than the factory bumps allow. This is with no significant front stretch and a low pinion axle, although the manifold wouldn’t be a concern with a high pinion, it would be the routing after the manifold around the oil pan. I cut the flanges off on mine and welded in v-bands for ease of access for maintenance items, such as the starter, and if required I could re-do that and angle it to get it up higher and tighter if I need to. I do not have a 3 link in place yet so take it with a grain of salt, but since you are running a similar exhaust setup, I thought I’d at least throw my observations out there. I plan to build my own 3 link to fit my build, so I make no assumptions on whether a 3 link designed for a specific application will fit and I have no idea what motor mounts you used so I have no idea if this is applicable to your build. Have fun with your short arm LS swap in the meantime, I know I do!

 

[Apparition]

A huge advantage of the DOHC VVT setup on that engine is the breadth of the torque curve.
View attachment 644103

You should compare that to the 2006 Trailblazer SS 4WD.

 

[chainsaw]

There are a couple in TJs. There are several 4200 variants. The later versions were almost 300 hp. The FB 4200 swap group has a requirement that one should at least read and understand some of the Wiki page. https://sites.google.com/view/vorte...lN3ua4oda8sZ_z9o8Q_aem_1mDbLUZt90OeTz5UUNr4ew

Thanks for the link. I will do some more reading!
It was you mentioning it that made me think it might be a "reasonable" idea. Without more research, it would seem to me to be a good fit in the chassis, and my application. I'd be tempted to leave the engine as stock as practical.

To all the V8 suggestions: I get it. It was my number two option (beyond a good stock rebuild), because it's a well worn, well documented path. But I think this I6 (or eventually, maybe a Hurricane crate motor) deserves consideration.

 

[chainsaw]

It's also mildly entertaining, how I can post what I thought was a simple question and you guys can derail a thread for nearly 3 pages!
Regardless, thanks for all your feedback!!

 

[Wildman]

It's also mildly entertaining, how I can post what I thought was a simple question and you guys can derail a thread for nearly 3 pages!
Regardless, thanks for all your feedback!!

Derailing threads around here is an art form for some and then others try to one up the last guy.... It's just the nature of the beast...

 

[ronson]

 

[ronson]

I just bought one for my 63 Nova. The plan is to get it running NA, then add a turbo later.

 

[Apparition]

He likes the limiter

 

[Mike_H]

You should compare that to the 2006 Trailblazer SS 4WD.

Isn't the TB SS a 5.3?

 

[Apparition]

Isn't the TB SS a 5.3?

AI paste

The Chevrolet Trailblazer SS was a midsize, four-door SUV produced from 2006–2009. It was the first production SUV with an SS badge and a body-on-frame design. The Trailblazer SS was notable for its powerful 6.0L LS2 V8 engine, the same engine used in the 2005–2007 C6 Corvette. It produced 395 horsepower and 400 lb-ft of torque.

• Engine: 6.0L LS2 V8, 395 hp, 400 lb-ft torque
• Drivetrain: Rear-wheel drive or all-wheel drive
• Transmission: Automatic
• MPG: 12–17 city/highway
• Features: Heated seats, keyless entry, fog lights, alloy wheels, tow hitch, CD player, WiFi hotspot
• Competition: Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8
• Production: Only about 26,000 made

 

[ronson]

He likes the limiter

Yes he does!

 

[ronson]

He owns Atlas Industries. He was showing off the durabiltiy and the wide powerband. I'm sure he would like all of us to buy his parts to put these in our Jeeps.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

You should compare that to the 2006 Trailblazer SS 4WD.

OK

I know you can make silly numbers with an LS on boost too. You can make a bunch of power with other engines that will put both of these to shame on a hp/displacement measure or raw hp measures. Doesn't mean they're fit for purpose.

I honestly don't want a 500hp TJ. Somewhere in the window of 275-350 peak hp and a wider powerband is plenty to address it's weakness. And I'm not saying a Hemi or LS don't make a very compeling case. The 4.0L just didn't have enough power or wide enough power band as delivered by Chrysler to push the brick shaped TJ body through the air at modern speeds with anything to spare. It definitely wasn't suited to the larger tires we've all put on them.

I just think the Atlas 4200 is an interesting option considering how well it aligns to the 4.0L's configuration in the TJ, adresses the issue of heat management with a crosflow head oriented in the same direction the TJ was setup to run.

 

[Apparition]

OK

I know you can make silly numbers with an LS on boost too. You can make a bunch of power with other engines that will put both of these to shame on a hp/displacement measure or raw hp measures. Doesn't mean they're fit for purpose.

I honestly don't want a 500hp TJ. Somewhere in the window of 275-350 peak hp and a wider powerband is plenty to address it's weakness. And I'm not saying a Hemi or LS don't make a very compeling case. The 4.0L just didn't have enough power or wide enough power band as delivered by Chrysler to push the brick shaped TJ body through the air at modern speeds with anything to spare. It definitely wasn't suited to the larger tires we've all put on them.

I just think the Atlas 4200 is an interesting option considering how well it aligns to the 4.0L's configuration in the TJ, adresses the issue of heat management with a crosflow head oriented in the same direction the TJ was setup to run.

LS version Went 8’s.