Control arms

[fishfullthinking]

Hi Guys,


Experienced a death wobble on my 2005 tj yesterday going 60. Was a little scary. Going to replace all control arms since did stabilizer and track bar few
years back. Jeep is all stock. Went to the moog site but kind of confusing which pieces to order. I believe there are 8 control arms so should I order a set of 2 for each?

That is 2 of each from set below?

Front Upper Control Arm
PART NUMBER: MOOG-RK640331
MANUFACTURER: MOOG

Front Lower Control Arm
PART NUMBER: MOOG-RK640734
MANUFACTURER: MOOG

Rear Lower Control Arm
PART NUMBER: MOOG-RK640734_REAR
MANUFACTURER: MOOG

Rear Upper Control Arm
PART NUMBER: MOOG-RK620246
MANUFACTURER: MOOG


Also 2 arms don't have a bushing and I assume it is part of the jeep where control arms attach, but not sure which bushing to get. Attached the image to show which 2 bushings I am referring to.



Please advise.


Thank you,
Fishfullthinking

 

[BlueC]

Lower arms front and rear are the same. The two arms missing a busing are the front uppers. The missing busing is in the axle housing and should also be replaced. I'd check the track bars even though you say you have already replaced them, and I'd also replace sway bar links and maybe bushing at this time as well. How are your steering components?

 

[P man]

Let's see if I can help

Yes 8 control arms total needed

Front 2 will not have a bushing as you showed because they attach over a bushing on the front differential.

Before I bought all 8 control arms I would climb under the jeep and do a visual inspection and torque every fastener I could find. The specs are all on this site.

How are the tires?

 

[fishfullthinking]

"BlueC" and "P man" thank you for your inputs. My jeep is 2005 is all original and is a daily driver.
Figured better replace everything since never plan on selling it and death wobble kind of spooked
me.

Which "Front Axle Side Upper Control Arm Bushings" do you recommend?

Looks like from research I did MOOG k3128 have a hole that is few millimeters too big and I
don't want any play.


Thank you,
Fishfullthinking

 

[P man]

I like moog products so no reason to stray from that. The diff side bushings can be a bit of a bear so make sure you are familiar with tips and tricks to make the job easier.

 

[JMT]

"BlueC" and "P man" thank you for your inputs. My jeep is 2005 is all original and is a daily driver.
Figured better replace everything since never plan on selling it and death wobble kind of spooked
me.

Which "Front Axle Side Upper Control Arm Bushings" do you recommend?

Looks like from research I did MOOG k3128 have a hole that is few millimeters too big and I
don't want any play.


Thank you,
Fishfullthinking

Why do you think this will fix your death wobble? Or have you already fixed the death wobble and you are doing preventative maintenance?

Death wobble is triggered by some tire problem (imbalance, cupping, et al) and usually onsets between 40-50mph when you hit a bump or pothole. You must slow to about 5mph for it to stop. If you don’t have to slow down that much you have a shimmy.

Death wobble can show some problem in your steering system. It could be as simple as proper torque.

 

[fishfullthinking]

"P man" thank you.
I will ask my mechanic to do the work. Just trying to get the best parts possible since had bad experience with
aftermarket parts made in China.

Will try "MOOG k3128" since seems like nobody really complained about little play. I need just two bushings for front axle upper control arms right?
In the rear they are part of control arm.

Thanks again,
Fishfullthinking

 

[BlueC]

Which "Front Axle Side Upper Control Arm Bushings" do you recommend?

Moog or TRW are who I typically buy.

 

[P man]

"P man" thank you.
I will ask my mechanic to do the work. Just trying to get the best parts possible since had bad experience with
aftermarket parts made in China.

Will try "MOOG k3128" since seems like nobody really complained about little play. I need just two bushings for front axle upper control arms right?
In the rear they are part of control arm.

Thanks again,
Fishfullthinking

Correct, you only need the 2 bushings separately for the front differential.

I would really push you to do a visual check of the components and especially the tires before spending a ton of money on parts you may not need.

 

[jjvw]

Why do you think this will fix your death wobble? Or have you already fixed the death wobble and you are doing preventative maintenance?

Death wobble is triggered by some tire problem (imbalance, cupping, et al) and usually onsets between 40-50mph when you hit a bump or pothole. You must slow to about 5mph for it to stop. If you don’t have to slow down that much you have a shimmy.

Death wobble can show some problem in your steering system. It could be as simple as proper torque.

He has already decided this is a control arm problem.

 

[fishfullthinking]

Guys,

Thank you. I will inspect everything. Not really 100% sure it is a control arms. It is exactly what happened where I hit a bump at 60mph
and Jeep went crazy where had to slow down to 10mph for it to stop. Not really sure what is a life expectancy of those bushings but
figured they must be at end of life.

Thank you for your inputs,
Fishfullthinking

 

[ColoJeep]

Guys,

Thank you. I will inspect everything. Not really 100% sure it is a control arms. It is exactly what happened where I hit a bump at 60mph
and Jeep went crazy where had to slow down to 10mph for it to stop. Not really sure what is a life expectancy of those bushings but
figured they must be at end of life.

Thank you for your inputs,
Fishfullthinking

Please follow some reasonable advice from people who have been down this road . Reread this entire thread ! Check your tires and tire balance .
Check the Track bar/bushings and torque values. Check all the steering tie rod ends and drag link for loose / worn parts.
It is probable that the issue will be solved restoring these parts. But hey go ahead and replace your control arms and bushings after doing ALL of the previously outlined areas of concern for Death Wobble . First start at the areas that cause or increase Death Wobble .

 

[JMT]

He has already decided this is a control arm problem.

You can lead them to water, but you can’t make them think.

 

[fishfullthinking]

Guys,

Took jeep todays to tires plus for tire rotation/balancing and asked them to check front end. They said everything was tight and cause of front wobble may
be tires or warn out steering gear box. They said there was a lot of play in it. I did not really notice it during every day driving. Can steering gear box be the
cause of death wobble?

Thank you,
Fishfullthinking

 

[Chris]

Guys,

Took jeep todays to tires plus for tire rotation/balancing and asked them to check front end. They said everything was tight and cause of front wobble may
be tires or warn out steering gear box. They said there was a lot of play in it. I did not really notice it during every day driving. Can steering gear box be the
cause of death wobble?

Thank you,
Fishfullthinking

It's unlikely that the steering gearbox is the culprit. It may be contributing to it to some degree, but death wobble is almost always caused by improperly torqued track bar bolts, worn ball joints, tie rod ends, etc.

Bad tires or improperly balanced tires aren't going to cause death wobble. That will cause vibrations.

There's a very, very good chance that you're confusing death wobble with vibrations. The two are quite different.

Of course often times it can be the case that you have a host of things going on and improperly balanced tires are just exacerbating existing death wobble (i.e. a loose track bar).

 

[JMT]

If bad tires or improperly balanced tires aren't going to cause death wobble, then why does replacing your bad tires with good tires or properly balancing good tires cause death wobble to stop?

@fishfullthinking sounds like you have bad tires. Of course, other steering parts may be worn and need replacement, but always start with good tires and perfect balance, preferably on a road force balancer.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

@fishfullthinking The ROOT cause of DW is usually a front tire or two that is imperfectly balanced. Start with that. Loose/worn items just allow DW to develop more easily.

Start with good tires that are as well balanced as possible. Perfect is what I always tell the tire balance guy I need where my TJ is concerned. Also do a "dry steering test" which is you sitting in front of the Jeep closely watching and listening to the steering system while a helper does quick short repeated left-right-left turns of the steering wheel with the tires on the ground and the engine not running.

You're looking for any sideways movement at rod ends, joints that are bolted together, shocks, control arms, track bar, etc. as the steering is quick-turned left right left repeatedly. Sideways movement anywhere is bad news. The tie rod and drag link are supposed to have rotational play so if you notice that while twisting them with your hands it's normal and required.

I was having the beginnings of incipient DW recently and the dry steering test showed I had bad rod ends at both ends of my drag link that were worn enough to have significant unwanted movement. Replacing those, tightening everything like the track bars etc. to spec, after I got the tires carefully balance took care of my DW.

 

[menezes05tj]

@fishfullthinking The ROOT cause of DW is usually a front tire or two that is imperfectly balanced. Start with that. Loose/worn items just allow DW to develop more easily.

Start with good tires that are as well balanced as possible. Perfect is what I always tell the tire balance guy I need where my TJ is concerned. Also do a "dry steering test" which is you sitting in front of the Jeep closely watching and listening to the steering system while a helper does quick short repeated left-right-left turns of the steering wheel with the tires on the ground and the engine not running.

You're looking for any sideways movement at rod ends, joints that are bolted together, shocks, control arms, track bar, etc. as the steering is quick-turned left right left repeatedly. Sideways movement anywhere is bad news. The tie rod and drag link are supposed to have rotational play so if you notice that while twisting them with your hands it's normal and required.

I was having the beginnings of incipient DW recently and the dry steering test showed I had bad rod ends at both ends of my drag link that were worn enough to have significant unwanted movement. Replacing those, tightening everything like the track bars etc. to spec, after I got the tires carefully balance took care of my DW.

Hello Fishfullthing!

I just saw this post now while searching the forum. I know it's about a year and a half old but in your post you pretty much describe what I have on my 05 as well. Funny thing is because I was searching control arm bushings it took e to this page your question. I too replaced Trac bar, sway bar linkages, sway bar bushings, all moog! New steering stabilizer from Monroe recomended on this site. All done as preventative maintenance. Got jeep from origional female owner all stock not lifted stock tires. This only happens when I hit 60 mph or up here in Canada 100-110 km per hour. No death wobble just bad vibration. Tires were 8 years old. Got new stock size tires Toyo open country 3. For a month I didn't feel anything. Thought problem solved! But.. it came back again . Just not as bad. Front end shimmy or vibrates and so does steering wheel I back down to about 50 mpr or say 95 km per hour and stops. I don't thinkits death wobble it's mixed with bump steer. Took jeep back to shop for tire rebalance and the did the road variance balance which only helped a bit. He said and rims good, I was thinking bushings like you so if you still have the jeep and your reading this did you save the issue , if so what was it I've been dealing with this for some time , what the guys responded to on this thread makes sense
Thank you if you have taken the time to read this and would appreciate anything you can tell me. Sa.e as your auto, 05 , 217,000km all stock daily ..kindof, non lifted.

Mark.