CV / SYE control arms

[ac_]

Ok, I still have the questions in post #15 if anyone cares to answer

Ok I will try and answer this but remember I was basically answering the same question,

From what I can gather, It really doesn't matter if you do the top or the bottom. You are just trying to get the pinion angle right so whatever gets you there is fine, but I can tell on mine that the front axle sits slightly behind where it used to, so I want to push and rotate, so in my case I am going to do the lowers. But if you do the uppers you will pull and rotate. So something to consider if you have to push or pull too much maybe that will affect your shock alignment. I think sometimes people pull and push to try and get it back in the same place as it was but rotated for pinion angle. I hope that makes sense, but in my case I believe I can push mine slightly to get my pinion angle back without doing the uppers, but I wasn't sure that was something that people do. I imagine for a 4 inch lift to get it back in the stock place you need to push and pull, but I think just with my 2 inch I an push it enough. Although I will update if I end up doing it.

Maybe you need to pull in the rear and push in the front in that case lowers in the front and uppers on the rear?

Make sense and gurus like @Chris can feel free to chime in.

 

[Jay P]

Metal cloak double adjustable are aluminum as well. I run them with no issues. Makes fine adjustments super easy.
View attachment 23324

This has to do with SYE. You have Ranchos and had to trim your spring perch. So knowing that, would going with Bilstein where the can of the shock is installed up, would you go with them instead or would you have to trim anyways once you do the SYE anyways?


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[glwood]

Found this on another forum, makes a good point:



wayoflife said:10-07-2013 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tumbleweed

I need to adjust my pinion angle in the rear. I still have the stock drive shaft, for a while. I've read that it is better to use the uppers to control the angle and lowers to locate the axle. I'd like to know why it is better done that way. It would seem that either would work, unless I'm missing something. Quite likely!!!

Thanks, Jerry.
There is nothing "better" about it. Even if you could find rear adjustable lower control arms that could be set short enough to give you the pinion angle that you need, you would effectively change the position of your axle and enough so that it you would have a much shorter wheel base, rubbing issues and coil issues. Don't believe me, give it a try and see what happens. It's just simple geometry.

 

[Squatch]

Found this on another forum, makes a good point:

View attachment 31201

wayoflife said:10-07-2013 05:24 AM
View attachment 31202 Originally Posted by Tumbleweed View attachment 31203
I need to adjust my pinion angle in the rear. I still have the stock drive shaft, for a while. I've read that it is better to use the uppers to control the angle and lowers to locate the axle. I'd like to know why it is better done that way. It would seem that either would work, unless I'm missing something. Quite likely!!!

Thanks, Jerry.
There is nothing "better" about it. Even if you could find rear adjustable lower control arms that could be set short enough to give you the pinion angle that you need, you would effectively change the position of your axle and enough so that it you would have a much shorter wheel base, rubbing issues and coil issues. Don't believe me, give it a try and see what happens. It's just simple geometry.

The plot thickens... I'm watching this with great interest. Seems like everyone appears to either bring up a valid point, or raise yet another question. Continue...:icon_popcorn:

 

[Chris]

So, if you can’t buy all your CA’s at once, what’s the best order to buy them?

Assuming you are doing an SYE/DC, don’t you need the Rear Upper Adjustable’s first? In order to rotate your axle to correct your pinion angle?

What’s the function of the lowers, is it to center the wheel in the wheel well?

Thanks

The lowers are meant to center your axle where you want it in the wheel well, whereas the uppers are what's going to tilt your pinion up and down and control the pinion angle. That being said, I'd probably buy the adjustable uppers first, unless your axle is way off center in the wheel well and causing potential rubbing issues (like if you were running 35" tires or larger maybe).

 

[JMT]

The lowers are meant to center your axle where you want it in the wheel well, whereas the uppers are what's going to tilt your pinion up and down and control the pinion angle. That being said, I'd probably buy the adjustable uppers first, unless your axle is way off center in the wheel well and causing potential rubbing issues (like if you were running 35" tires or larger maybe).

Thanks. That is what I thought, but needed confirmed. In that case, mainly I need my rear upper adjustables to dial in the pinion angle. Then the lowers front and rear to center the axles in wheel well (which is lengthening the wheelbase). Front uppers probably not necessary

 

[Chris]

Thanks. That is what I thought, but needed confirmed. In that case, mainly I need my rear upper adjustables to dial in the pinion angle. Then the lowers front and rear to center the axles in wheel well (which is lengthening the wheelbase). Front uppers probably not necessary

That's right. The front pinion angle doesn't need to be messed with. It's driveshaft is long enough that the angle is much less severe than the rear driveshaft. So all you really need is rear uppers in the meantime.

 

[JMT]

That's right. The front pinion angle doesn't need to be messed with. It's driveshaft is long enough that the angle is much less severe than the rear driveshaft. So all you really need is rear uppers in the meantime.

Great. And I can really do that anytime, before or after SYE/DC, because you can just adjust it, especially easy with double adjustables. LOL

 

[Chris]

Great. And I can really do that anytime, before or after SYE/DC, because you can just adjust it, especially easy with double adjustables. LOL

Yes, double adjustables are a must. It makes it so easy to adjust, it's a walk in the park.

 

[bobthetj03]

Best thing you can do for the rear when setting it up after installing adjustable arms is pull the springs, set at full bump, then adjust the lowers to move the axle as far back as you can without the track bar or rear pumpkin hitting the gas tank skid, then install coils, set the jeep back to ride height under its own weight, then adjust the pinion angle with the uppers. Once you have the lowers adjusted for axle centering, you're pretty much done messing with the lowers unless you change ride height.

 

[bobthetj03]

This has to do with SYE. You have Ranchos and had to trim your spring perch. So knowing that, would going with Bilstein where the can of the shock is installed up, would you go with them instead or would you have to trim anyways once you do the SYE anyways?


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Really wouldn't know for sure until you cycle the suspension to see. Maybe they would clear.

 

[ac_]

The lowers are meant to center your axle where you want it in the wheel well, whereas the uppers are what's going to tilt your pinion up and down and control the pinion angle. That being said, I'd probably buy the adjustable uppers first, unless your axle is way off center in the wheel well and causing potential rubbing issues (like if you were running 35" tires or larger maybe).

If this is the case, then just replacing the lowers wont work, unless you have a really short way to go. I may test this theory. Looking under my Jeep it really looks like if I push the bottom forward just a tad it will rotate enough to set my pinion angle. If it doesn't, then I have an excuse to buy the uppers if it does, it saves me 300 bucks?

 

[Chris]

If this is the case, then just replacing the lowers wont work, unless you have a really short way to go. I may test this theory. Looking under my Jeep it really looks like if I push the bottom forward just a tad it will rotate enough to set my pinion angle. If it doesn't, then I have an excuse to buy the uppers if it does, it saves me 300 bucks?

You can certainly be the test subject, yes! Let us know how it ends up working. I've never tried it personally.

 

[bobthetj03]

If this is the case, then just replacing the lowers wont work, unless you have a really short way to go. I may test this theory. Looking under my Jeep it really looks like if I push the bottom forward just a tad it will rotate enough to set my pinion angle. If it doesn't, then I have an excuse to buy the uppers if it does, it saves me 300 bucks?

Will you need to shorten the lowers or lengthen them?

 

[ac_]

Will you need to shorten the lowers or lengthen them?

In the front I need to lengthen them. Then I would have to re-evaluate the rear, but I think it is pretty close. I am actually probably going to do a SYE first before I do anything. Have a slight slow speed vibration coming from the rear. I mean slight, but I want to fix with a SYE rather than lowering or lifting anything. My front is noticeably off, and it is affecting the steering a little above 60MPH I believe.

 

[bobthetj03]

In the front I need to lengthen them. Then I would have to re-evaluate the rear, but I think it is pretty close. I am actually probably going to do a SYE first before I do anything. Have a slight slow speed vibration coming from the rear. I mean slight, but I want to fix with a SYE rather than lowering or lifting anything. My front is noticeably off, and it is affecting the steering a little above 60MPH I believe.

Getting the pinion angle right in the rear after a SYE might be tough. You'd have to shorten the lower arms to rotate the pinion up. Tough finding arms that go shorter than stock length.

 

[ac_]

Getting the pinion angle right in the rear after a SYE might be tough. You'd have to shorten the lower arms to rotate the pinion up. Tough finding arms that go shorter than stock length.

Hey, I have a two inch lift!

 

[KCsTJ]

Me too! But the embarrassing part is that I didn't know my 97 with now 160k has a 2 inch suspension lift, thanks JEEPNWILLY , until I saw the Trail Master lift paperwork provided by P.O. :/ I would lol but too embarrased