Do I buy complete axles or not?

[ohiopatriot]

Hello all, I bought my first TJ about 3 months ago, it's a 2004 Sahara 4.0L with 5 speed. Now I've lifted it and put 35s on it with many other upgrades, but it's time to regear. I made sure to get one with a Dana 44 and disc brakes on the rear, but now I'm not sure what direction to go. Initially I figured just to gear to 4.88s or 5.13s and be done with it. Well now I'm thinking lockers and heavy duty axle shafts are in order, I want to run with the big dogs.

Well it's expensive, and that's OK, but for twice the price I can get aftermarket bolt in axles. Is one way better than the other? It's not a daily driver but will see 3k a year or so on the street and will be trailered when needed to get to trails away from home.

I'm a tech by trade and prefer to build, but unsure about bending housings, breaking parts etc. Hate to build a Dana 30 and have to turn around and buy a 44 cause something happened. I'd rather get it right the 1st time.

Thanks in advance.

 

[JamesAndTheSahara]

View attachment 24485 View attachment 24486 Hello all, I bought my first TJ about 3 months ago, it's a 2004 Sierra 4.0L with 5 speed. Now I've lifted it and put 35s on it with many other upgrades, but it's time to regear. I made sure to get one with a Dana 44 and disc brakes on the rear, but now I'm not sure what direction to go. Initially I figured just to gear to 4.88s or 5.13s and be done with it. Well now I'm thinking lockers and heavy duty axle shafts are in order, I want to run with the big dogs.

Well it's expensive, and that's OK, but for twice the price I can get aftermarket bolt in axles. Is one way better than the other? It's not a daily driver but will see 3k a year or so on the street and will be trailered when needed to get to trails away from home.

I'm a tech by trade and prefer to build, but unsure about bending housings, breaking parts etc. Hate to build a Dana 30 and have to turn around and buy a 44 cause something happened. I'd rather get it right the 1st time.

Thanks in advance.View attachment 24485

You are going to have a difficult time finding more than just a handful of people on this forum that have something beefier than a Dana 30 in the front. You can't beat a set of Currie built axles as top of the line, but for a lot of us average joes we are ok building what we have. I recently pulled a Dana 44 out of an LJ and a HP30 out of an XJ and had them re-geared to 4.88s. I am still running stock shafts in open carriers. I have full intentions of upgrading to RCV's in the front & chromo's in the rear in the next couple months. I couldn't afford both of my lockers now but hopefully next year I will have front and rear ARB's put in. To put things into perspective, this is a real life cost sheet of what to expect:

• $800.00 Rear Axle Purchase.
• $45.00 Front Axle Purchase.
• $100.00 in paint & cleaner supplies.
• $1600.00 for the Re-Gear & servicing seals/bearings done through Motobilt.
• $200.00 for Ball Joints.
• $150.00 for new wheel bearings
• $100.00 for replacement U-joints for front axle shafts.
• $16.00 for UCA Bushings.
• $700.00 to completely install pads/rotors/disc calipers using BlackMagicBrakes.
• $40.00 for front & rear lube lockers.
• ~$100.00 in rags/gear oil/brake cleaner/brake fluid.

End price of $3851 completely replacing both axles in my TJ doing a significant amount of work myself minus the gear labor. These supplies are what I personally considered a proper bare minimum to do the job properly myself. Costs can be cut slightly in some areas but this is an accurate price to expect.

This did not include upgraded shafts and lockers.

This stuff gets expensive fast .

 

[Rob5589]

Great question. The 44/30 with lockers and chromo shafts are up to 35's. Of course everything has limitations and can be broken. If I were gonna spend money on new complete axles, I'd opt for 60's front and rear with 35 spline shafts. Go big or go home

Oh, and do something with that spindly tie rod. Either Currie or ZJ conversion. That thing is gonna taco sooner than later.

 

[Jorge Bolivar]

I'm exactly on the same spot.
Last time I do think this I decide to get a Dana 44 aftermarket for the front and built the rear myself. I do ran 33 thinking on 35 but that will be a far away future.
Dana 44 gave you the option of 5.38..., you see how fast all change directions on the axle topic!
Following for sure.

 

[ohiopatriot]

Ok, seems the 44/30 is viable, so now the opinions wanted are:

> what lockers?
> what axles?
> what gear set?
> 5.13 ratio?

Oh, and do something with that spindly tie rod. Either Currie or ZJ conversion. That thing is gonna taco sooner than later.

Good call, I'm looking to get the Currie.

This stuff gets expensive fast .

Ha ha, very fast.

 

[Rob5589]

Detroit
Revolution
Revolution
Yes

 

[Chris]

Detroit
Revolution
Revolution
Yes

X2

Also X2 on the Currie steering, can't go wrong there (I run it myself).

 

[Fouledplugs]

Detroit or ARB. I like Yukon shafts and spicer joints. Thats just my .02

Some members here seem to like revolution. They have a few kits that are easy and pick from for the 44/30 which is cool and makes shopping a breeze.

 

[mrblaine]

Ok, seems the 44/30 is viable, so now the opinions wanted are:

> what lockers?
> what axles?
> what gear set?
> 5.13 ratio?



Good call, I'm looking to get the Currie.



Ha ha, very fast.

Lockers- Rear- Eaton E-Locker, solid, reliable, fairly cost effective, simpler hook up.
ARB- solid, reliable, a bit more costly due to needing air to actuate.

Front- Detroit, solid, reliable, and is invisible in 2wd. If you have snow driving in mind, put a selectable up front.

Axle shafts- Revolution if you want US made and don't mind paying for it. If you want cheaper, get their Discovery series. If you are ok with their Discovery series but don't want Revolution then get axle shafts from Nitro, Yukon, G2, Ten Factory, Alloy USA, etc. because they are all the same import stuff and it doesn't matter which box they come in.

Circle K is the predominant gear set sold by Revolution. If you get 5.13's or 5.38's for the Dana 44, they are all Circle K because they are the only ones that make them in that ratio so again, find the box color you like and order them that way. Circle K is a very good gear that most gear setters really like.

If you don't care about Circle K, then again, pick the box color because most of the gear companies swap gear sets around when they run out and they just put them in their boxes. Be aware that Yukon's premium and standard gear sets are the same part in different boxes with only the warranty being different.

 

[JP98]

Lockers- Rear- Eaton E-Locker, solid, reliable, fairly cost effective, simpler hook up.
ARB- solid, reliable, a bit more costly due to needing air to actuate.

Front- Detroit, solid, reliable, and is invisible in 2wd. If you have snow driving in mind, put a selectable up front.

Axle shafts- Revolution if you want US made and don't mind paying for it. If you want cheaper, get their Discovery series. If you are ok with their Discovery series but don't want Revolution then get axle shafts from Nitro, Yukon, G2, Ten Factory, Alloy USA, etc. because they are all the same import stuff and it doesn't matter which box they come in.

Circle K is the predominant gear set sold by Revolution. If you get 5.13's or 5.38's for the Dana 44, they are all Circle K because they are the only ones that make them in that ratio so again, find the box color you like and order them that way. Circle K is a very good gear that most gear setters really like.

If you don't care about Circle K, then again, pick the box color because most of the gear companies swap gear sets around when they run out and they just put them in their boxes. Be aware that Yukon's premium and standard gear sets are the same part in different boxes with only the warranty being different.

X2 That is a solid plan layout. If you think you are going to be doing 3k or more of local road driving I would say go no more than the 5.13's.

 

[ohiopatriot]

Ok, did more research, talked to local and reputable 4x4 shop and the mega store 4 Wheel Parts that just opened an hour away and considered opinions here and I am leaning toward :

>Detroit Lockers : simple, proven, reliable
>Revolution Axles : US Made, 1350 Ujoints
>Revolution Gear set : just doesn't seem to have pros or cons compared with others.
>Gear ratio ...... undecided, I like the 5.13s, but the local guy suggest they may be the weak link and recommends 4.88 for strength, not that they still wouldn't be the weak link, but stronger than 5.13s.

He also prefers Nitro gears and axles, but is good with and can get any I choose

So, nothing is definite, but that's the way I'm leaning.

Any opinions on the 5.13 issue? Any other considerations?

The mega chain recommends all G2 components with my choice of lockers.

He did give me a deal on the wife's JKU for installing G2 4.88 gears for 1300$ parts and labor.

Thanks again

 

[Rob5589]

Ok, did more research, talked to local and reputable 4x4 shop and the mega store 4 Wheel Parts that just opened an hour away and considered opinions here and I am leaning toward :

>Detroit Lockers : simple, proven, reliable
>Revolution Axles : US Made, 1350 Ujoints
>Revolution Gear set : just doesn't seem to have pros or cons compared with others.
>Gear ratio ...... undecided, I like the 5.13s, but the local guy suggest they may be the weak link and recommends 4.88 for strength, not that they still wouldn't be the weak link, but stronger than 5.13s.

He also prefers Nitro gears and axles, but is good with and can get any I choose

So, nothing is definite, but that's the way I'm leaning.

Any opinions on the 5.13 issue? Any other considerations?

The mega chain recommends all G2 components with my choice of lockers.

He did give me a deal on the wife's JKU for installing G2 4.88 gears for 1300$ parts and labor.

Thanks again

The Detroits and Revo axles are good choices.

He likely prefers Nitro because that is what he sells/gets a good deal on

No issues running the 5.13. Blaine can explain better than myself but, you aren't gaining strength using the 88 over the 13

Same on the G2. They deal with them so that is where profits can be made.

Nitro and G2 didn't exist when I was in the biz. But that is not to say they aren't good. We never had an issue with any gear in particular. Revolution didn't exist either but I have set up a couple sets in my own TJ and really liked how they set up and patterned. You probably can't go wrong with any name brand gear set. Most issues arise from poor install.

 

[StG58]

The Detroits and Revo axles are good choices.

He likely prefers Nitro because that is what he sells/gets a good deal on

No issues running the 5.13. Blaine can explain better than myself but, you aren't gaining strength using the 88 over the 13

Same on the G2. They deal with them so that is where profits can be made.

Nitro and G2 didn't exist when I was in the biz. But that is not to say they aren't good. We never had an issue with any gear in particular. Revolution didn't exist either but I have set up a couple sets in my own TJ and really liked how they set up and patterned. You probably can't go wrong with any name brand gear set. Most issues arise from poor install.

This^^^

When I talked with the local 4x Super Store they highly recommended G2 products. The counter guy was distracted by my oldest daughter and was trying to carry on two conversations at once...so...the upshot is that they recommend the G2 stuff because that is the "House Brand" and had the least amount of pain involved on their end. Had no idea who Circle K was and couldn't tell me where the G2 products were made or by whom. Pretty women are better than truth serum, btw. Just make sure they are on your side.

 

[StG58]

<snip>
>Detroit Lockers : simple, proven, reliable
<snip>

You get snow in Ohio. There are occasions where Detroits and snow don't mix as well as they could. Give a serious look at the Eaton E-locker as a viable alternative. They were specifically designed for off road use according to Eaton, and have been improved over the years just like the Detroits have. If they fit your budget, they are a very viable alternative. Maybe a Detroit in the back and an E-locker up front. In any case, they are worth looking into.

 

[ohiopatriot]

You get snow in Ohio. There are occasions where Detroits and snow don't mix as well as they could. Give a serious look at the Eaton E-locker as a viable alternative. They were specifically designed for off road use according to Eaton, and have been improved over the years just like the Detroits have. If they fit your budget, they are a very viable alternative. Maybe a Detroit in the back and an E-locker up front. In any case, they are worth looking into.

It's not a DD, and with the way Jeeps rust it will be in the barn for the winter, Ohio loves it salt when it snows. I like the mechanicals of the Detroits, seems simple and reliable, kind of like me, ha ha.

 

[Dozerdude]

Just got a price from Northridge, Dynatrac pro rock 44, 1/2" wall, stock tj width, arb locker, rcv shafts, 5.13.
$4800 shipped to the house. Don't know if this helps.

 

[mrblaine]

Ok, did more research, talked to local and reputable 4x4 shop and the mega store 4 Wheel Parts that just opened an hour away and considered opinions here and I am leaning toward :

>Detroit Lockers : simple, proven, reliable

Even without snow, they have a learning curve and you couldn't pay me to run one in the rear axle.

>Revolution Axles : US Made, 1350 Ujoints
>Revolution Gear set : just doesn't seem to have pros or cons compared with others.

Only because they don't know. Circle K gears are respected by all who have compared them to anything else.

>Gear ratio ...... undecided, I like the 5.13s, but the local guy suggest they may be the weak link and recommends 4.88 for strength, not that they still wouldn't be the weak link, but stronger than 5.13s.

Never pick a ratio dependent upon info from some gear monkey who knows how but not why. When 4.88's were first introduced many years ago, folks said exactly the same thing. Go 4.56 for strength. Now there is a lower gear ratio and they say the same thing and they have no clue about how gears work.

He also prefers Nitro gears and axles, but is good with and can get any I choose

He prefers Nitro because he has an account there and no other reason. If there were another reason he would tell you to get any gear you like the color of the box they come in because on any given day, they can and will be anything from Circle K to OEM Dana. Nitro doesn't have a brand, they sell whatever they can get their hands on. Ask him if he has set up any 5.13's or 5.38's. If so, he set up Circle K's.

The mega chain recommends all G2 components with my choice of lockers.

In order of who owns who starting at the top-
Polaris
Transamerica
G2...Smittybilt......Poison Spyder..........ProComp.........4 Wheel Parts.......4 Wheel Drive Hardware

There is a reason they push those brands and it isn't because they are good or bad, it's because they are all owned by the same entity.

He did give me a deal on the wife's JKU for installing G2 4.88 gears for 1300$ parts and labor.

Thanks again

Around here, I can get a JK re-gear done for roughly a grand if you want to put that price into perspective and I'm guessing high so he isn't far out of line. Again though, G2 doesn't have a gear brand. It can and will be anything in the box.

 

[Ron505]

He did give me a deal on the wife's JKU for installing G2 4.88 gears for 1300$ parts and labor.

Thanks again

Where are you in Ohio? $1300 front and rear re-gear I assume? What/where shop?

 

[Dozerdude]

Question for mrblaine, is 5.13 being stonger than 5.38 a myth. Thanks in advance.

 

[mrblaine]

Question for mrblaine, is 5.13 being stonger than 5.38 a myth. Thanks in advance.

Yes. It has to do with potential work and leverage. Think of it similar to a 10 speed bike. Put it in the top or highest gear and take off from a standstill at the base of a small hill. You'll have to get up on the pedals and grab the handlebars to pull against and put a large amount of force into getting moving up the hill. The "gear set" will see lots of force from the motor (you) and is getting stressed. Put it in the lowest gear, and the effort to move the same load up the hill drops way down.

Another way to look at it is dig around and see who sells gears and if they have a disclaimer for the lower gears such as, This gear ratio is not covered under warranty after 90 days if used offroad, etc..

Companies are not going to sell a low profit item they have to warranty repeatedly. They will attempt to limit use and weight and you don't see that any where on any website that sells those ratios.

Further, a lot of times (most times when it comes to "stronger" type questions) the wrong question is being asked.

Which is stronger, 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern or 5 on 5.5? The larger one is, but the correct question that we all know the answer to since it came stock on all TJ's and is just not an issue is "is the 5 on 4.5 bolt circle strong enough?" and the answer is yes.

How come no one ever asks if a 4-1 t-case is weaker than a 2.72-1 t-case?