Signage at the pump for E15 says it is for "2001 and newer passenger vehicles." Has anyone tried running their Jeep on E15?
E15 in stock engine?
- Thread starter toximus
- Start date
I'm fairly certain you can run it, you'll just get even worse fuel economy than you get now 
I know some guys who have run it in their JKs without any issue.
I know some guys who have run it in their JKs without any issue.
Idonno, I hate the 10% crappinol we get down here since it turns to 5% water in about a week. There's even a station near my house that has a sign that says "Zero ethanol". Unfortunately, it's only for the premium grade and I ain't goin' there.
The higher the ethanol content, the more likely you are to have issues with hoses and connectors. That's why E85 vehicles (admittedly, way higher ethanol content) are special, because they can handle running on mostly water, er, alcohol without disintegrating. E15 is a comparatively recent addition to the scene and didn't exist when our TJs were originally spawned (I believe it came out in 2011). Given the choice, I'd stay to E10 or better/less but you would probably be OK running it.
The higher the ethanol content, the more likely you are to have issues with hoses and connectors. That's why E85 vehicles (admittedly, way higher ethanol content) are special, because they can handle running on mostly water, er, alcohol without disintegrating. E15 is a comparatively recent addition to the scene and didn't exist when our TJs were originally spawned (I believe it came out in 2011). Given the choice, I'd stay to E10 or better/less but you would probably be OK running it
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It mainly has to do with the aluminum parts in the fuel systems, the alcohol is corrosive and the ecm's are not really mapped for the extra alcohol in the older vehicles. After 01, the rules mandated changes to the fuel system to allow for alcohol, at a later date it mandated allowances for E-85. The E-85 makes a lot of power and you can run a butt load of compression but uses a lot more fuel to do it. Tim
https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html
https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html
Here's a link to an ethanol plant near me where you can check prices at their pump: http://www.ibecethanol.com
E-85 needs sell around 30% cheaper to offset the BTU difference.
Current prices:
E-85 $1.49
E-15 $2.39
While visiting out in AZ E-85 was 10¢ MORE than E-10/E-15.
Not surprising though as big oil isn't going to distribute alternatives.
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Big Oil also has enough money to keep the misinformation campaign going.
Henry Ford designed the model T to run on ethanol.
BTW: There are no troops guarding my corn fields.
E-85 needs sell around 30% cheaper to offset the BTU difference.
Current prices:
E-85 $1.49
E-15 $2.39
While visiting out in AZ E-85 was 10¢ MORE than E-10/E-15.
Not surprising though as big oil isn't going to distribute alternatives.
.
Big Oil also has enough money to keep the misinformation campaign going.
Henry Ford designed the model T to run on ethanol.
BTW: There are no troops guarding my corn fields.
Idonno, I hate the 10% crappinol we get down here since it turns to 5% water in about a week. There's even a station near my house that has a sign that says "Zero ethanol". Unfortunately, it's only for the premium grade and I ain't goin' there.
The higher the ethanol content, the more likely you are to have issues with hoses and connectors. That's why E85 vehicles (admittedly, way higher ethanol content) are special, because they can handle running on mostly water, er, alcohol without disintegrating. E15 is a comparatively recent addition to the scene and didn't exist when our TJs were originally spawned (I believe it came out in 2011). Given the choice, I'd stay to E10 or better/less but you would probably be OK running it
I read some where that refiners added up to 4% water w/o any adverse effects.
Doesn't work where it freezes in the winter.
Incidentally, when you get water in your gas HERE...you add HEAT (which is a bottle of ethanol) which absorbs the water and allows it to burn through.
5% water? Might drop your gas tank and see if theres a hole on top!
I was joking/exaggerating about the 5% water. I just don't like the way ethanol gas ages.
As to the HEAT, yes, precisely the issue; alcohol absorbs water; in gas and from the air (into the gas). And it does not allow it to burn it, it just binds with it so it gets run through the engine. Water, even bound to alcohol, will not combust and does not improve combustion.
Lastly, I do not like the idea of burning food. If you listen to the MS media, half of the planet is starving, and yet we take the time and energy to convert our food into fuel and burn it in our cars.
As to the HEAT, yes, precisely the issue; alcohol absorbs water; in gas and from the air (into the gas). And it does not allow it to burn it, it just binds with it so it gets run through the engine. Water, even bound to alcohol, will not combust and does not improve combustion.
Lastly, I do not like the idea of burning food. If you listen to the MS media, half of the planet is starving, and yet we take the time and energy to convert our food into fuel and burn it in our cars.
More Kool-Aid sponsored by big oil.Lastly, I do not like the idea of burning food. If you listen to the MS media, half of the planet is starving, and yet we take the time and energy to convert our food into fuel and burn it in our cars.
We have an ample supply of feed grain. Of that bushel of corn, 2.8 gallons of ethanol are produced. By product is distillers grains which is in demand for animal feed.
You and I cant do much with whole dent corn as we don't have 5 stomachs to digest it.
Googling distillers grains:
"Distillers grains are a co-product of the ethanol production process and a great, low cost alternative feed ingredient that continues to be produced in large quantities by the dry-grind fuel ethanol industry. They are rich in the protein, fat, minerals and vitamins that animals need, making them a popular feed ingredient for livestock and poultry diets.
There are several advantages of distillers grains. Drying them increases shelf life and improves the ability for them to be transported over longer distances. For example, the U.S. ethanol industry produces, on average, nearly 90,000 tons of distiller grains each week. While a portion of the distiller grains is sold domestically, a large portion is exported as Distillers Dried Grains with Solubles (DDGS).
Distillers grains can also be sold wet to a local market. While the shelf life is not as long, the nutritional value maintains and the ethanol plant saves on drying costs.
Recent record-high feed ingredient prices around the world have caused animal nutritionists to search for lower cost alternative feed ingredients to minimize the cost of food animal production. The high energy, protein and phosphorus content of DDGS make it a very attractive partial replacement for some of the more expensive traditional energy (corn), protein (soybean meal), and phosphorus (mono- or dicalcium phosphate) ingredients used in animal feeds.
When DDGS is added to animal feeds that are properly formulated, it provides excellent animal health, performance and food product quality. These attributes, and others, have made distillers grains one of the most popular feed ingredients to use in animal feeds both in Iowa and around the world."
So then if water is being sucked into your fuel system wouldn't it be throwing EVAP codes for the obvious leak?
I see you have personal ties to this subject so I don't want to pursue it to the point where we have unnecessary animosity. But I will reply to the concerns you mentioned.
First, calling something "cool-aid" or "claptrap" or any number of other derogatory terms does not make it so. Also, it seems astounding to me that some large corporate entities get labeled as "Big ____" and are automatically pegged as evil, despite the fact that many of them are that big because they must be in order to afford to do their business (without heavy government subsidies...i.e. Socialism). Oil exploration, for instance is an enormously expensive undertaking. But, far more expansive and invasive corporations such as your Google, who virtually controls the modern dissemination of information through their search engine, owns and (by and large) controls the software your phone runs on (unless your an Apple man), tracks nearly everything you do online, etc. is considered a benign "brother of Mankind".
As for "Big Oil" attempting to spread disinformation about ethanol; with the exception of E85, the petroleum industry really has little incentive to do so. They still sell their product but, instead of some other additive to increase the octane, they use Ethanol, not a big deal, except for the government mandate part of it. For E85, yeah they probably don't really like being forced to support, distribute, and maintain a product they do not, for the most part, produce. It would be a bit like forcing Tony Lama to sell moccasins made by the Paiute Nation; probably nice moccasins, but not what Tony Lama does. As a note, I have not personally seen any petroleum industry spokesman dissing ethanol. It does not mean they have not, it's just that my comments were purely from my personal experience.
The fact that a byproduct of an enterprise, like distiller's grains, can be made useful, does not necessarily make that enterprise overall beneficial. Would the whole grain corn (not just what is left over after ethanol processing) not be even more nutritious than the distiller's grains? Would other crops that take an equal amount of resources to produce be more beneficial (and require less quantity) than the distiller's grains?
To the idea that we would not [, as Humans,] be able to get much out of whole dent corn; again, would you be growing all that corn if it were not for the ethanol industry? Would you not be growing something more suited to the Human digestive system? Didn't you, before corn became fuel?
Finally, in reference to your question "if water is being sucked into your fuel system wouldn't it be throwing EVAP codes for the obvious leak?"; there is no leak. The water being absorbed into the fuel is from the air in the tank (not much of an issue in AZ perhaps, but much more so in say, Louisiana, or the Texas coast). You can, of course, minimize this effect by keeping your gas tank mostly full most of the time...a good idea, especially when the vehicle will be sitting a lot and will take more time to burn through the fuel. All that aside, the EVAP system does not detect an issue because it is not designed to detect water in your gas.
Again, I don't wish to get into a war of words on a subject in which you appear to have a vested interest and upon which I am unlikely to sway your opinions so, I'll call it done here and wish you and yours all the best until we speak again.
P.S. Of course, you are welcome to rebut, I am just reticent to get into a proverbial "pissing contest" with someone with whom I have never even had the opportunity to enjoy a drink
First, calling something "cool-aid" or "claptrap" or any number of other derogatory terms does not make it so. Also, it seems astounding to me that some large corporate entities get labeled as "Big ____" and are automatically pegged as evil, despite the fact that many of them are that big because they must be in order to afford to do their business (without heavy government subsidies...i.e. Socialism). Oil exploration, for instance is an enormously expensive undertaking. But, far more expansive and invasive corporations such as your Google, who virtually controls the modern dissemination of information through their search engine, owns and (by and large) controls the software your phone runs on (unless your an Apple man), tracks nearly everything you do online, etc. is considered a benign "brother of Mankind".
As for "Big Oil" attempting to spread disinformation about ethanol; with the exception of E85, the petroleum industry really has little incentive to do so. They still sell their product but, instead of some other additive to increase the octane, they use Ethanol, not a big deal, except for the government mandate part of it. For E85, yeah they probably don't really like being forced to support, distribute, and maintain a product they do not, for the most part, produce. It would be a bit like forcing Tony Lama to sell moccasins made by the Paiute Nation; probably nice moccasins, but not what Tony Lama does. As a note, I have not personally seen any petroleum industry spokesman dissing ethanol. It does not mean they have not, it's just that my comments were purely from my personal experience.
The fact that a byproduct of an enterprise, like distiller's grains, can be made useful, does not necessarily make that enterprise overall beneficial. Would the whole grain corn (not just what is left over after ethanol processing) not be even more nutritious than the distiller's grains? Would other crops that take an equal amount of resources to produce be more beneficial (and require less quantity) than the distiller's grains?
To the idea that we would not [, as Humans,] be able to get much out of whole dent corn; again, would you be growing all that corn if it were not for the ethanol industry? Would you not be growing something more suited to the Human digestive system? Didn't you, before corn became fuel?
Finally, in reference to your question "if water is being sucked into your fuel system wouldn't it be throwing EVAP codes for the obvious leak?"; there is no leak. The water being absorbed into the fuel is from the air in the tank (not much of an issue in AZ perhaps, but much more so in say, Louisiana, or the Texas coast). You can, of course, minimize this effect by keeping your gas tank mostly full most of the time...a good idea, especially when the vehicle will be sitting a lot and will take more time to burn through the fuel. All that aside, the EVAP system does not detect an issue because it is not designed to detect water in your gas.
Again, I don't wish to get into a war of words on a subject in which you appear to have a vested interest and upon which I am unlikely to sway your opinions so, I'll call it done here and wish you and yours all the best until we speak again.
P.S. Of course, you are welcome to rebut, I am just reticent to get into a proverbial "pissing contest" with someone with whom I have never even had the opportunity to enjoy a drink
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They're taking the sugars from the corn when distilling ethanol. Demand for the byproduct DDG (dry distillers grain) is very high as a desirable and easily digestive feed for animals.
I do have a "vested" interest from the standpoint of better or improved prices for corn.
Personally I have one E-85 vehicle but will only buy when it's 30% less than E10 which isn't very often.
I attempt to enlighten folks when the following statements show up:
Ethanol ruins all the seals in my fuel system
Ethanol draws water into the fuel
We are burning all our food.
I'd like to think of it as a civil discussion where in we both learn some points from the discussion and perhaps find a middle ground instead of digging heals in a pissing match. Unlike current politics.
I came to this forum to learn and share knowledge on TJ jeeps but chime in on other subjects that I have knowledge on.
I do have a "vested" interest from the standpoint of better or improved prices for corn.
Personally I have one E-85 vehicle but will only buy when it's 30% less than E10 which isn't very often.
I attempt to enlighten folks when the following statements show up:
Ethanol ruins all the seals in my fuel system
Ethanol draws water into the fuel
We are burning all our food.
I'd like to think of it as a civil discussion where in we both learn some points from the discussion and perhaps find a middle ground instead of digging heals in a pissing match. Unlike current politics.
I came to this forum to learn and share knowledge on TJ jeeps but chime in on other subjects that I have knowledge on.