EV thread

[Apparition]

From the CEO of Delorean Motor Company speaking to the original DMC-12; "The body panels were brushed, unpainted stainless steel, but there were three made with 24-karat gold-plated bodies—two of which were part of a promotion with American Express."

Of the handful that I’ve seen in person, none have had stainless body panel rust issues. If some Teslas are rusting, I wonder what's different.

For us it was a no no because of corrosive environment. But, I believe most stainless exhausts are 304.

Here's what Google tells me -

Is 304 stainless steel OK for outside?

Type 304 is suitable for most interior and exterior applications with low corrosion risk, even with minimal or no maintenance. In moderately corrosive environments, Type 304 may be acceptable if a smooth finish is specified and there is regular cleaning.

WHAT CAN CAUSE STAINLESS STEEL TO RUST?​

There are more than 150 grades of stainless steel out there, and some are simply more prone to rust than others. It’s important to consider that, although 304 stainless steel can corrode, it will not rust in normal atmospheric conditions. The corrosion of stainless steel only occurs under more aggressive environments or in situations where the composition of the steel contains impurities.

Though stainless steel, for the most part, is resistant in nearly every environment, the various types will react differently when put into hostile conditions that aid in corrosion.

Some common causes of stainless steel corrosion include:

Bimetallic Corrosion – Dissimilar metals coming with a common electrolyte coming into contact with each other (also referred to as galvanic corrosion)

Crevice Corrosion – Triggered when oxygen levels in a crevice are very low

General Corrosion – Triggered when stainless steel has a pH value of >1

Intergranular Corrosion – When you heat stainless steel in the range of 450 to 850 degrees Celsius, carbon in the steel will convert to grain boundaries which lead to corrosion

Pitting Corrosion – When stainless steel is exposed to environments that contain chlorides (such as seawater)

Stainless steel is a multifunctional metal that can be used successfully for a huge range of applications, from automotive to medical devices. It’s the most readily available grade of stainless steel and typically less expensive than its common counterpart, 316 stainless steel, which offers super corrosion resistance but is very similar overall. If your application isn’t exposed to aggressive chemicals and is instead only exposed to milder acids, then 304 stainless steel is likely the perfect fit.

 

[Apparition]

https://www.businessinsider.com/cyb...sses-claims-the-tesla-evs-rust-in-rain-2024-2

Cybertruck engineer addresses claims the Tesla EVs rust in the rain​

A Cybertruck engineer, Wes Morrill, addressed claims that Tesla's electric pickup truck rusts in the rain and said the specks of rust were the size of a "pinhead" and not part of its stainless-steel body.

Over the past week, some new Cybertruck owners have taken to social media to complain about what they say are spots of rust on their brand-new electric vehicles, which cost up to $99,900. One owner even said they'd been warned when the truck was delivered that it could rust in the rain.

"The advisor specifically mentioned the Cybertrucks develop orange rust marks in the rain and that required the vehicle to be buffed out," a member of the Cybertruck Owners Club forum wrote.
In a post on X, Morrill said it wasn't the Cybertruck's metal itself that was rusting and gave some advice on how to address the orange spots, which were explained as apparent rusting from metal particles that may have collected from the factory or when the vehicles were transported via railway. The engineer — who has worked at Tesla for more than 13 years, according to his LinkedIn — referenced a YouTube video on the issue.

"Good myth busting. Stainless is reactive and free iron that sits on it will rust," the Cybertruck engineer said. "It's surface contamination only and can be cleaned off easily."

Tesla CEO Elon Musk also appeared to confirm Morrill's comments, writing "Yeah" in response to the post.

Justin Demaree, the host of the YouTube channel Bearded Tesla Guy, said in his video on the issue that a Cybertruck owner had brought the truck to him the day after it was delivered when he'd noticed the specks.

In his video, Demaree said the tiny orange specks were probably the result of "rust dust" or particles that had landed on the surface of the truck and embedded into the material. He said rust dust could come from the grating of metal on metal at a train track or even from areas in an automotive factory where vehicles go through their final polishing. The small specks of metal in the air could collect on the vehicle and rust over time, he said.

The issue doesn't appear to be entirely unique to the Cybertruck. Demaree told Business Insider he'd seen the issue before but said the Cybertruck seemed to be even more prone to collecting the dust, probably due to its stainless-steel exterior.

"When I finally had a chance to see the issue first hand, I recognized what I was looking at right away," Demaree wrote over email. "Sometimes when new cars would arrive at a dealership, especially white ones, it would look like the car was 'rusting.' It doesn't just wipe away, it has to be buffed off. That's when I first learned about 'rust dust' or 'rail dust.'"

For the most part, automakers have avoided using stainless steel. The Cybertruck is the first production vehicle to be made out of stainless steel since the Delorean was produced in 1983. The metal can be difficult to shape and prone to smudging.



The YouTuber tried a handful of methods to address the issue, including wiping the car with Windex and a liquid form of Bar Keepers Friend. Demaree said the latter method appeared to do the trick but advised Cybertruck owners to be careful using the polish on the truck.

"Every time you do this, you're basically cutting it down to a fresh layer," the YouTuber said.

Morrill recommended using either Bar Keepers Friend or Citrisurf 77 to address the issue.

"Clean it anytime or don't if it doesn't bother you," Morrill wrote on X. "It's not the base metal. The specs are about the size of the pin of a pinhead."

Morrill and a spokesperson for Tesla didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

It's no wonder some Tesla owners are taking note of the specks. The much-hyped electric pickup comes with a price tag from $60,990 to $99,990. And millions of Tesla fans have been waiting for the truck since 2019.

It's unclear how many Cybertrucks have been delivered. Tesla delivered its first dozen on November 30, and several celebrities have been spotted with their own Cybertrucks in the months since.

 

[Shank]

https://www.businessinsider.com/cyb...sses-claims-the-tesla-evs-rust-in-rain-2024-2

Cybertruck engineer addresses claims the Tesla EVs rust in the rain​

A Cybertruck engineer, Wes Morrill, addressed claims that Tesla's electric pickup truck rusts in the rain and said the specks of rust were the size of a "pinhead" and not part of its stainless-steel body.

Over the past week, some new Cybertruck owners have taken to social media to complain about what they say are spots of rust on their brand-new electric vehicles, which cost up to $99,900. One owner even said they'd been warned when the truck was delivered that it could rust in the rain.

"The advisor specifically mentioned the Cybertrucks develop orange rust marks in the rain and that required the vehicle to be buffed out," a member of the Cybertruck Owners Club forum wrote.
In a post on X, Morrill said it wasn't the Cybertruck's metal itself that was rusting and gave some advice on how to address the orange spots, which were explained as apparent rusting from metal particles that may have collected from the factory or when the vehicles were transported via railway. The engineer — who has worked at Tesla for more than 13 years, according to his LinkedIn — referenced a YouTube video on the issue.

"Good myth busting. Stainless is reactive and free iron that sits on it will rust," the Cybertruck engineer said. "It's surface contamination only and can be cleaned off easily."

Tesla CEO Elon Musk also appeared to confirm Morrill's comments, writing "Yeah" in response to the post.

Justin Demaree, the host of the YouTube channel Bearded Tesla Guy, said in his video on the issue that a Cybertruck owner had brought the truck to him the day after it was delivered when he'd noticed the specks.

In his video, Demaree said the tiny orange specks were probably the result of "rust dust" or particles that had landed on the surface of the truck and embedded into the material. He said rust dust could come from the grating of metal on metal at a train track or even from areas in an automotive factory where vehicles go through their final polishing. The small specks of metal in the air could collect on the vehicle and rust over time, he said.

The issue doesn't appear to be entirely unique to the Cybertruck. Demaree told Business Insider he'd seen the issue before but said the Cybertruck seemed to be even more prone to collecting the dust, probably due to its stainless-steel exterior.

"When I finally had a chance to see the issue first hand, I recognized what I was looking at right away," Demaree wrote over email. "Sometimes when new cars would arrive at a dealership, especially white ones, it would look like the car was 'rusting.' It doesn't just wipe away, it has to be buffed off. That's when I first learned about 'rust dust' or 'rail dust.'"

For the most part, automakers have avoided using stainless steel. The Cybertruck is the first production vehicle to be made out of stainless steel since the Delorean was produced in 1983. The metal can be difficult to shape and prone to smudging.



The YouTuber tried a handful of methods to address the issue, including wiping the car with Windex and a liquid form of Bar Keepers Friend. Demaree said the latter method appeared to do the trick but advised Cybertruck owners to be careful using the polish on the truck.

"Every time you do this, you're basically cutting it down to a fresh layer," the YouTuber said.

Morrill recommended using either Bar Keepers Friend or Citrisurf 77 to address the issue.

"Clean it anytime or don't if it doesn't bother you," Morrill wrote on X. "It's not the base metal. The specs are about the size of the pin of a pinhead."

Morrill and a spokesperson for Tesla didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

It's no wonder some Tesla owners are taking note of the specks. The much-hyped electric pickup comes with a price tag from $60,990 to $99,990. And millions of Tesla fans have been waiting for the truck since 2019.

It's unclear how many Cybertrucks have been delivered. Tesla delivered its first dozen on November 30, and several celebrities have been spotted with their own Cybertrucks in the months since.

Rail dust is typical on all cars. See it all the time on painted cars.

 

[Apparition]

Rail dust is typical on all cars. See it all the time on painted cars.

I've had to claybar vehicles of my own to remove it.

 

[BlueC]

In a post on X, Morrill said it wasn't the Cybertruck's metal itself that was rusting and gave some advice on how to address the orange spots, which were explained as apparent rusting from metal particles that may have collected from the factory or when the vehicles were transported via railway. The engineer — who has worked at Tesla for more than 13 years, according to his LinkedIn — referenced a YouTube video on the issue.

"Good myth busting. Stainless is reactive and free iron that sits on it will rust," the Cybertruck engineer said. "It's surface contamination only and can be cleaned off easily."

That makes sense. I've seen that before, especially when people use steel wool to polish a section of stainless, typically on boats. I learned that bronze wool should be used on stainless. I'd still be pissed if I had a new Tesla with rust staining.

 

[InOmaha]

Rail dust is typical on all cars. See it all the time on painted cars.

I have some on my Jeep I need to get off. My brother has more on his. There's a recycling yard on his side of town that chops iron and cars into similar sized pieces before compacting them into cubes.

 

[BlueC]

I have some on my Jeep I need to get off. My brother has more on his.

I just picked up an "iron remover" last week, it was the Meguires. https://www.meguiars.com/profession...-clay-industrial-fallout-iron-remover-without I found it on the shelf at Autozone.

It might be worth trying for you. I used it on some wheels, but barely had a reaction.

 

[chili_pepper]

That makes sense. I've seen that before, especially when people use steel wool to polish a section of stainless, typically on boats. I learned that bronze wool should be used on stainless. I'd still be pissed if I had a new Tesla with rust staining.

For what they're charging for them, the dealer's prep/detail department should be addressing this kind of thing before the owner takes possession.

This frequently happens when new vehicles are transported by rail, and typically requires a clay bar to remove as it becomes embedded in the paint. In this case, not sure as it must be adhered to the surface of the stainless as opposed to embedded.

 

[Apparition]

I just picked up an "iron remover" last week, it was the Meguires. https://www.meguiars.com/profession...-clay-industrial-fallout-iron-remover-without I found it on the shelf at Autozone.


View attachment 502855

It might be worth trying for you. I used it on some wheels, but barely had a reaction.

I bought similar, different brand, for some wheels I had and wasn't impressed with it. Hopefully you have better luck.

 

[Westtown Willy]

People with physical limitations would disagree.

they can disagree all they want but the majority of people don't fit that description; overly excessive 'tech' does nothing but add unnecessary dollars to the already over inflated price of the vehicle plus the added trouble of diagnosing/repairing problems it causes.

If you need it/want it/can afford it, there's no problem with it. I'm looking at the broader view of the entire market and how the average Joe has been priced out of new car/truck purchases due in large part to the ever increasing 'teching' of vehicles. I've read manufacturers are now rolling out 96 month payment plans, that's their great solution to make vehicles 'affordable', what a joke. If we continue on this trajectory what's the next stop, the 10 year car loan?

"Debt free" is not all it is cracked up to be.

sure it is.

One of the biggest scams in America is the credit score.

6 years ago I was 100% debt free. I have a pension, 401k, IRA, savings, own a home and vehicles free and clear.

Somehow, because I don't owe money, I am a higher credit risk and pay more for auto and home insurance.

Credit scores are a crock of shit, I agree; a system cooked up by banks to keep customers in debt with the promise of saving on interest, or in your example, ten cents on car insurance

On the other hand if you believe your debt-free-caused higher credit risk status & resultant increased insurance premiums are so bad, you must be willing to get yourself back into debt to pump up your credit score to lower those premiums?

If you're not, debt freedom remains the holy grail, the other issues are nominal and easily solved.

Pro-tip: it's simple to be debt free AND have a high credit score, the best of all worlds. Simply get yourself a credit card & use it exclusively for all necessities, gas, groceries, cell phone bill... then pay it off every month. Your credit score will be in the top tier for all purposes (including credit risk assessments for insurance) while you pay zero dollars in interest & maintain debt free status. If, after doing this, your credit score is not top tier, something else is going on.

 

[Zorba]

When I worked offshore we couldn’t use 304 and had to use 316.

Ditto that. 308 was a no-go as well. Even 316 will rust under the right conditions unless its passivated and polished.

 

[Zorba]

One of the biggest scams in America is the credit score.

6 years ago I was 100% debt free. I have a pension, 401k, IRA, savings, own a home and vehicles free and clear.

Somehow, because I don't owe money, I am a higher credit risk and pay more for auto and home insurance.

Absolutely. My wife and I have been debt. free for well over a decade now. Our credit score is usually around 825 - BUT - get this: I put over $21K onto my credit card to pay for a re-plumb job on our house. Paid it off when the bill came in, and collected the "points". Because I actually *USED* my credit line, my score plummeted to the low 700s. Open a new card? Score goes down. Even apply for one and get a "hard inquiry" - score goes down. Seemingly the ONLY way to keep a good credit score is to have 10X the credit you need and never use it - or be in debt up to your eyeballs.

Oh, wife was denied some chickenshit credit thing because "no record of a mortgage loan in the last 12 months..."

I wouldn't give a tinker's damn about ANY of this, except there is now a thing called an "Insurance Score" - which is tied to your credit score. If you don't play their fucking GAMES, you get to pay more for insurance. I hate playing games, and it seems that anything/everything that has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with money is a goddamned GAME.

I was shopping for car insurance, and received a letter from one company that informed me about the "insurance score" and how I would have been offered cheaper insurance from them had I had a better credit score (this was just after I paid the plumber), and that the "insurance score" was "highly accurate" - bull-fucking-shit!

 

[Zorba]

they can disagree all they want but the majority of people don't fit that description; overly excessive 'tech' does nothing but add unnecessary dollars to the already over inflated price of the vehicle plus the added trouble of diagnosing/repairing problems it causes.

If you need it/want it/can afford it, there's no problem with it. I'm looking at the broader view of the entire market and how the average Joe has been priced out of new car/truck purchases due in large part to the ever increasing 'teching' of vehicles. I've read manufacturers are now rolling out 96 month payment plans, that's their great solution to make vehicles 'affordable', what a joke. If we continue on this trajectory what's the next stop, the 10 year car loan?

Yep, yep, and yes! Fucking worthless garbage, just like the smartphone!

 

[Zorba]

Pro-tip: it's simple to be debt free AND have a high credit score, the best of all worlds. Simply get yourself a credit card & use it exclusively for all necessities, gas, groceries, cell phone bill... then pay it off every month. Your credit score will be in the top tier for all purposes (including credit risk assessments for insurance) while you pay zero dollars in interest & maintain debt free status. If, after doing this, your credit score is not top tier, something else is going on.

This is what we do - and I guess it works UNTIL you actually use the credit line. Then "they" don't care that you paid it off the same month. Although, I don't consider a cell phone a "necessity", not even the flip that I carry.

 

[Westtown Willy]

This is what we do - and I guess it works UNTIL you actually use the credit line. Then "they" don't care that you paid it off the same month.

when you say credit line are you referring to a cash advance? If so that's a different story, I'd never use a cc cash advance for that reason, it's instant interest charges... it makes sense, they're actually fronting you cash, unlike when you purchased that Peloton Treadmill & Exercise Bike combo pack for five grand you only used twice, they skimmed their vig off the top then hundreds if not thousands more in interest in the 9 years it took you to pay it all off

 

[bmcgc]

they can disagree all they want but the majority of people don't fit that description; overly excessive 'tech' does nothing but add unnecessary dollars to the already over inflated price of the vehicle plus the added trouble of diagnosing/repairing problems it causes.

If you need it/want it/can afford it, there's no problem with it. I'm looking at the broader view of the entire market and how the average Joe has been priced out of new car/truck purchases due in large part to the ever increasing 'teching' of vehicles. I've read manufacturers are now rolling out 96 month payment plans, that's their great solution to make vehicles 'affordable', what a joke. If we continue on this trajectory what's the next stop, the 10 year car loan?



sure it is.



Credit scores are a crock of shit, I agree; a system cooked up by banks to keep customers in debt with the promise of saving on interest, or in your example, ten cents on car insurance

On the other hand if you believe your debt-free-caused higher credit risk status & resultant increased insurance premiums are so bad, you must be willing to get yourself back into debt to pump up your credit score to lower those premiums?

If you're not, debt freedom remains the holy grail, the other issues are nominal and easily solved.

Pro-tip: it's simple to be debt free AND have a high credit score, the best of all worlds. Simply get yourself a credit card & use it exclusively for all necessities, gas, groceries, cell phone bill... then pay it off every month. Your credit score will be in the top tier for all purposes (including credit risk assessments for insurance) while you pay zero dollars in interest & maintain debt free status. If, after doing this, your credit score is not top tier, something else is going on.

You're not schooling me on personal finance, there is a reason why I am financially secure, it's not from the lottery or a trust fund.

I have made good investments, limited spending and developed multiple passive income streams.

I use credit when it is to my advantage to use credit.

You're out of touch with what the consumer wants in a vehicle. Most people want the bells and whistles. Consumers don't like the price, but so far, they are willing to pay it.

Despite the strike, Ford and GM's earning far exceeded expectations. I am collecting my 15¢ quarterly div plus an additional 18¢ special dividend on my Ford stock. GM bumped it's dividend 3¢ a quarter.

 

[Apparition]

Absolutely. My wife and I have been debt. free for well over a decade now. Our credit score is usually around 825 - BUT - get this: I put over $21K onto my credit card to pay for a re-plumb job on our house. Paid it off when the bill came in, and collected the "points". Because I actually *USED* my credit line, my score plummeted to the low 700s. Open a new card? Score goes down. Even apply for one and get a "hard inquiry" - score goes down. Seemingly the ONLY way to keep a good credit score is to have 10X the credit you need and never use it - or be in debt up to your eyeballs.

Oh, wife was denied some chickenshit credit thing because "no record of a mortgage loan in the last 12 months..."

I wouldn't give a tinker's damn about ANY of this, except there is now a thing called an "Insurance Score" - which is tied to your credit score. If you don't play their fucking GAMES, you get to pay more for insurance. I hate playing games, and it seems that anything/everything that has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with money is a goddamned GAME.

I was shopping for car insurance, and received a letter from one company that informed me about the "insurance score" and how I would have been offered cheaper insurance from them had I had a better credit score (this was just after I paid the plumber), and that the "insurance score" was "highly accurate" - bull-fucking-shit!

You remind me of when I graduated from college with zero credit.

I used to go to cabelas and fill out their credit card applications for the free stuff and discounts they offered. I was rejected so many times.

That was the problem with always paying cash for everything.

But couldn't rent an apartment either and had to have my parents co-sign. They wouldn't even let me pay a years rent in advance.

 

[Zorba]

when you say credit line are you referring to a cash advance? If so that's a different story, I'd never use a cc cash advance for that reason, it's instant interest charges... it makes sense, they're actually fronting you cash, unlike when you purchased that Peloton Treadmill & Exercise Bike combo pack for five grand you only used twice, they skimmed their vig off the top then hundreds if not thousands more in interest in the 9 years it took you to pay it all off

No, just a standard credit card charge. I'm with you on "cash advance".

Then there was the thrash getting a "Discount Tire" credit card as I wanted their "9 months same as cash + 5% off" deal. I wasn't able to successfully apply for the thing online at home, but was successful in getting it at the store - because I don't have a PHOOOOOONNE!!

 

[Zorba]

You're out of touch with what the consumer wants in a vehicle. Most people want the bells and whistles. Consumers don't like the price, but so far, they are willing to pay it.

There's actually two sides of this argument: Yes, effete Americans have always tended towards luxury vehicles until that's pretty much all that's available in our market. BUT - I'm finding more and more and more people who do NOT want the "technology" - its just gone too damn far. They still want the power crap, like windows, doorlocks, and even seats, but not the tech. I personally don't want ANY of it.

 

[Apparition]

No, just a standard credit card charge. I'm with you on "cash advance".

You're meaning carry a balance aren't you?