For those in the cold and icy places

ejay said:
I'm in a similar boat but further south in the states and a transplant from California. I'm overthinking it too, I think. I just got some new floods/spots to replace my old ProComp lights and specially purchased Halogen KCs. Not only because I like the hue but also because they generate heat and won't get frozen over. That's overthinking it for sure.

Same tires as you too.
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I'm running TruckLites, non heated. I had the exact same fear. My brother-in-law has told me not to worry about it, he's lived here his whole live and down the street from us. They won't be an issue. Time will tell of course. The heated variety are so expensive I won't be replacing them anytime soon that's for sure. I will scrape the snow from them before driving. However, I did check after a drive one night back in California and they generated no noticeable heat to melt off anything. I lived in a very dark area, they were a fantastic upgrade. But, when I did it, moving to Canada wasn't on our radar. All of my upgrades were decided on based on desert Offroading. Now the closest Offroading is two hours away. Before it was around the block. Grrr.
 
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When you start talking about driving in the slop that's a whole different conversation. You will need to go VERY easy the first few times you drive in snow. The coefficient of friction is very different from anything you've probably experienced. It varies with temperature too... Cold snow grips better than warm snow, believe it or not.

Don't fall into the trap of driving fast because your have 4wd. 4wd only help you go.. It doesn't help you woah.

I second the suggestion of finding a large parking lot and learning how the Jeep behaves in low traction situations. What does it take to get it to understeer, oversteer, slide, etc. Then learn how to correct for those conditions. If it oversteers, what do you do to control it and how much of the road do you use while catching the slide? With some practice, you'll be four wheel drifting around parking berms for fun!
 
TJScott said:
I had read that keeping the wheels spinning and using 4wd will help the turning in slick situations. Of course ice is a whole other ball of wax. Since I don't have ABS in my TJ, I have to be mindful of my braking. However, I've been driving and motorcycling vehicles for 40 years without ABS and do a reasonable job of feathering the brakes even in panicked situations. But, ABS would make life easier. My wife's JK has it. And just due to the fact that it's the vehicle behind mine in the driveway and will have winter tires we will use it most often. But, I will still use mine, just not as much.
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My experience is that ABS makes driving in slick conditions harder. Snow or muddy conditions are actually easier with with out it. It’s been proven many times that someone who knows how to drive can stop faster without it. It’s just for people who just panic and lock up their brakes.
 
Practice and get a feel for bad conditions. It's amazing how different performance can be in conditions that look very similar!

4wd makes a huge difference in stability and stopping distance, so don't be afraid to use it even when there's just a little snow. You can shift on the fly in normal driving conditions as long as you're going straight.

Don't use cruise control when there's a chance it might be slick!
 
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I'm a warm weather transplant to a snowy region. Go slow, stay away from other cars who may be all over the road, practice in parking lots, learn how it responds, 4wd helps you go, but won't help you woah (good one @Mike_H), a lifted Jeep will help you through the deep stuff. Just go slow, learn how it turns, practice some more. I'm turning 2 teens loose this year, and 1 already on the road.


THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF SNOW EVERYONE IN YOUR TOWN WILL BE AN IDIOT.
 
1. Double check your engine coolant. It should be good to -35 at least
2. In snowy/icy conditions leave PLENTY of space between you & the vehicle in front of you. Also, keep an eye out for any driver sliding toward you from the rear & be ready to scoot to the shoulder if necessary.
3. When it starts to get slippery, use that 4WD. It will help A LOT with controlling the vehicle.
 
srimes said:
Practice and get a feel for bad conditions. It's amazing how different performance can be in conditions that look very similar!

4wd makes a huge difference in stability and stopping distance, so don't be afraid to use it even when there's just a little snow. You can shift on the fly in normal driving conditions as long as you're going straight.

Don't use cruise control when there's a chance it might be slick!
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how does 4WD help in stopping distance?
 
I can see where 4WD would help when the weather goes south. Tires are tires, so stopping it may not be of much help. Perhaps if you're using engine braking, 4WD may catch a better piece of road to slow the vehicle. I watched a video where they showed two turns on a downhill slope in the snow. They had less control and more slide in two wheel drive since the front tires weren't helping to propel/pull it. It was interesting. The coolant, I'm not sure what our Jeeps have in them. I'm guessing it wouldn't be for cold climates like this. If it's not for this climate, what could happen? Any permanent damage to the cooling system or engine?
 
TJScott said:
I can see where 4WD would help when the weather goes south. Tires are tires, so stopping it may not be of much help. Perhaps if you're using engine braking, 4WD may catch a better piece of road to slow the vehicle. I watched a video where they showed two turns on a downhill slope in the snow. They had less control and more slide in two wheel drive since the front tires weren't helping to propel/pull it. It was interesting. The coolant, I'm not sure what our Jeeps have in them. I'm guessing it wouldn't be for cold climates like this. If it's not for this climate, what could happen? Any permanent damage to the cooling system or engine?
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If you mix your antifreeze to the book, it will be fine. You can't run straight water, and shouldn't anyway. If you did, and it freezes, yes... It can damage the engine. Any quick change oil place can test your coolant for it's tolerance to cold.

Again...4wd helps you go, including pulling you around corners. Traction is finite... There is only so much available. Adding 4wd doubles your traction under power. Under braking, cars have had brakes on all 4 wheels basically forever. It's 4wd but for stopping. So that's why I say 4wd doesn't help for stopping.

Also remember what I said about traction being finite. You can use it to turn, use it to brake, or some combination of the two. Once you use up the available traction, your tire skids and you slide. In order to regain traction, you need to stop turning or stop braking... Or both. Situation dependent.
 
Anti-freeze is definitely mixed properly. I would never run straight water, I know better than that.
Traction being finite is kind of what I meant by tires are tires. They can only do so much. Obviously, I need behind the wheel time on snow to get a feel for it. But, it sure doesn't mean I can't learn from those that have been doing it for years. I'll be the slow guy for sure. Naturally, you don't want to get going too fast as you won't be able to stop or turn.
 
Mike_H said:
how does 4WD help in stopping distance?
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I was skeptical until I tried it in back-to-back tests. I think it works by keeping all wheels turning the same speed, making it easier to modulate the brakes just short of lockup.

I suspect in 2wd the front axle locks up first as there is less weight transfer due to the reduced friction, so when modulating the pedal to avoid lockup you end up underutilizing the rear wheels. 4wd keeps both axles turning the same so they're either all turning or all locked up, allowing you to keep them both at the limit. It doesn't double your stopping power but it is a noticeable improvement.

If you had an adjustable proportioning valve and set it up for snow then 4wd wouldn't make a difference, but who would do that?
 
@TJScott - I'm about an hour and a half north/east of where you are. I enjoy winter driving with my Jeeps. if you're living and working in Kitchener- Waterloo Region you won't have too much difficulty getting around. There will be days of heavy snowfalls but the municipality will clear the arterial roads quickly and work their way down to the local roads in no time.

There are lots of areas out of town that are worth going to, especially as it will be new to you. At worst you will have to pick your times but generally you'll be fine. If you want to drive on any ice highways it's best to do it in the winter as they'll be lakes and rivers for about 9 months of the year! 😊

Jeeps are pretty capable as is. As for mine ... I use Goodyear Duratrac tires, Bosch Icon wiper blades, winter washer fluid, 10W30 oil year round, spray them with Fluid Film, seat heaters in one (LJ) and that's about it. All Canadian Jeeps came with a block heater but I've rarely used them. I use battery tenders in them but that's mainly because some will sit for a few weeks without being used. I drive my TJ & LJ regularly in the winter and my XJ & MJ a little bit less. Just drive according to the conditions and you'll be fine. I'm more worried about someone slamming into me than I am about doing something stupid on my own.
 
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TJScott said:
We did occasionally get snow. Just not a lot. And certainly not what people would call real snow, then again we had no way to deal with it so it would close things down. This is about the extent of it. I was pulling the FedEx driver out. He had great tires for what they normally do, but terrible for snow. I had already told him if he got stuck to come back to my door and I would get him out.

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Yeah those vans suck in the snow big time.
 
Learning how to drive in winter conditions is the hard part compared to setting up the vehicle for it. Snow, ice, black ice, freezing rain and worst of all the other idiots on the road. It's like everyone has to relearn how to winter drive during the first snows and the accidents increase vastly and the ditches are full of vehicles. More extreme here in Alaska. We use block heaters, oil pan heaters and electric battery blankets all at same time. Most have remote starts. Almost all use carbide studs in the tires for traction. No studs then the most popular winter tire are Blizzaks. 5-20 or 5-30 oil , antifreeze mixed for -40 temps and washer fluid that doesn't freeze. We carry tire chains and snow shovel. People drive in 4wd all winter. That's how we roll in extreme winter. Once again learning how to drive on roads with snow and ice is main thing. Get ready for brakes that don't stop you and slipping, sliding butt puckering moments haha
 
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srimes said:
I was skeptical until I tried it in back-to-back tests. I think it works by keeping all wheels turning the same speed, making it easier to modulate the brakes just short of lockup.

I suspect in 2wd the front axle locks up first as there is less weight transfer due to the reduced friction, so when modulating the pedal to avoid lockup you end up underutilizing the rear wheels. 4wd keeps both axles turning the same so they're either all turning or all locked up, allowing you to keep them both at the limit. It doesn't double your stopping power but it is a noticeable improvement.

If you had an adjustable proportioning valve and set it up for snow then 4wd wouldn't make a difference, but who would do that?
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My intuition would be that 4WD would improve engine braking, which is a very important tool for driving in the snow and ice.
 
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chuck47 said:
My intuition would be that 4WD would improve engine braking, which is a very important tool for driving in the snow and ice.
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When driving on snow, I always switch to 4WD for this reason and if the road is in really bad condition, which happens often where I live, I switch to 4LO. Engine braking is the most effective way to slow down on a slippery road.
 
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One of the reasons to stay in 4WD in ice and snow is you will sit there and spin your tires at stop signs and intersections. Piss people off when it takes you forever to get going in 2wd. 2wd is for people with front wheel drive. Everyone here knows you are far less likely to go into a slide or spin out of control at highway speed in ice or snow when in 4wd. Not even debatable, you stay in 4wd. Think the road is clean enough for 2wd and you will meet Mr Black ice.
 
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