Ford kills it

[Chris]

No. I remember. That was shitty.

I also remember my Ram truck and front ends and steering they knowingly sold for what, 2003 to 2012 and when FINALLY recalled, my truck was in que for almost 2 years. I traded it in before they had parts to fix it.

Jeep has cracking frames at the welds with the JL.

I guess my point is, they all suck. I know you got shafted on your focus, but I’ll be honest and say...the big three don’t make cars. They do trucks the best, with the mustang, corvette and challenger/charger being the decent exception.

they never could do a small or mid size car worth a shit.

The difference is, Jeep is fixing stuff, right? Ford didn't fix anything whatsoever, nada.

I'm not saying don't buy it, I'm just saying anyone who rushes out to buy the first year (or even first several years) is asking for trouble. Hell, the same thing even happened with the JLs when they first launched.

If you actually read what the engineer whistleblowers said about Ford when they designed the Focus / Fiesta transmission, Ford actually told them to go ahead with the design anyways, even though the engineers vehemently warned them that there were serious issues with the design.

I'm sorry, but I have a very hard time trusting a company that deliberately told their engineers to go ahead and push forward, even though the design was found to be faulty before it went into production.

 

[AMS417]

With the exception of super duty trucks (which still have vacuum actuated hubs BUT an option to manual lock, all have the lame electrical nannies to lock in 4x4.

But your not wrong on your other experiences.

If you ever have to tap and insert #4 and #8 plugs (under the cowl) on a 5.4L 2v you will develop a cautious disliking for anything they make, its a really sucky job. The hub arrangement is frail. A friend broke his 4x4 system on a ecoboost F150 pulling his ski boat up a wet ramp. All in the name of MPG ratings. Don't get me started on the 6.0 and 6.4 diesel. Aside from the emissions issues that cost a fortune to fix myself because back then there were no aftermarket parts, my 1995 was a decent truck.

 

[Rick Flair]

The difference is, Jeep is fixing stuff, right? Ford didn't fix anything whatsoever, nada.

I'm not saying don't buy it, I'm just saying anyone who rushes out to buy the first year (or even first several years) is asking for trouble. Hell, the same thing even happened with the JLs when they first launched.

If you actually read what the engineer whistleblowers said about Ford when they designed the Focus / Fiesta transmission, Ford actually told them to go ahead with the design anyways, even though the engineers vehemently warned them that there were serious issues with the design.

I'm sorry, but I have a very hard time trusting a company that deliberately told their engineers to go ahead and push forward, even though the design was found to be faulty before it went into production.

True. I remember reading something about that.

They all really suck.

But I’ve good luck with my Ford trucks so far.

I’ll also be waiting a few years to see how this tests out. My wife was all hot to trot, I said nope. I’m not writing that check to be a beta tester.

especially since we both know, these will go at MSRP or more. Nope, its a Ford. I’m not dumb.

 

[Rick Flair]

If you ever have to tap and insert #4 and #8 plugs (under the cowl) on a 5.4L 2v you will develop a cautious disliking for anything they make, its a really sucky job. The hub arrangement is frail. A friend broke his 4x4 system on a ecoboost F150 pulling his ski boat up a wet ramp. All in the name of MPG ratings. Don't get me started on the 6.0 and 6.4 diesel. Aside from the emissions issues that cost a fortune to fix myself because back then there were no aftermarket parts, my 1995 was a decent truck.

Yeah, that must have sucked. I never had the pleasure of a 5.4 2V!
Don’t know what broke on your friends F150, but I bought mine for power not mileage. I average about 18.5-19 mpg. I’m good with that.

I had a 1995 F350 with the 7.3. It leaked oil, ate glow plugs, manual ZF trans ground 2nd gear but it was reliable for the most part. Fly by wire throttle gave me some fits. Sold with 250k on it.

I wouldn’t take a 6.4Powerstroke, but I’d do a 6.0 if the price was right. They have been fleshed out. The 6.4 is junk.

But I get it. I most likely won’t own another GM product.

 

[Chris]

True. I remember reading something about that.

They all really suck.

But I’ve good luck with my Ford trucks so far.

I’ll also be waiting a few years to see how this tests out. My wife was all hot to trot, I said nope. I’m not writing that check to be a beta tester.

especially since we both know, these will go at MSRP or more. Nope, its a Ford. I’m not dumb.

If I had to guess, Ford puts all their R&D into trucks since that's where the bread and butter is, because I've even heard of transmission issues (lots of them) on the news Mustangs.

Oh well, I guess what I'm really getting at is that I hope no one here is foolish enough to buy the first year run of the Bronco. While I have no doubt it will sell in mass, I'm also 100% certain they'll have issues, just like almost any first year production vehicle does.

In 3 years or so, they'll have ironed most of it out. I just hate to be the "test dummy", especially on a vehicle that costs this much.

Of course I won't be buying one at all, I'll just live vicariously through you guys

 

[AMS417]

Yeah, that must have sucked. I never had the pleasure of a 5.4 2V!
Don’t know what broke on your friends F150, but I bought mine for power not mileage. I average about 18.5-19 mpg. I’m good with that.

I had a 1995 F350 with the 7.3. It leaked oil, ate glow plugs, manual ZF trans ground 2nd gear but it was reliable for the most part. Fly by wire throttle gave me some fits. Sold with 250k on it.

I wouldn’t take a 6.4Powerstroke, but I’d do a 6.0 if the price was right. They have been fleshed out. The 6.4 is junk.

But I get it. I most likely won’t own another GM product.

I stopped buying GM in 2012 when they wouldn't fix my 2011 Chevy Silverado that was burning 1 quart of oil every 800 miles. It had 40k on it and I bought it new. Almost all highway miles too. They said it was within the allowable limit. I had one warranty issue with my 2014 Ram 1500, they replaced my third brake light. They all go through peaks and valleys. Ford needs a win here, and I hope they get it. I just won't be standing in line, at least not until someone else has paid to be a beta tester.

The Ford at the boat ramp chewed the teeth out of the hub because it didn't fully engage. Lots of loud noises and no traction. Another friend pulled it up the hill with his Duramax and it got driven home to the dealer to fix. They did replace the hub under warranty. Was more the fact it failed after little use, under light load.

 

[Rick Flair]

If I had to guess, Ford puts all their R&D into trucks since that's where the bread and butter is, because I've even heard of transmission issues (lots of them) on the news Mustangs.

Oh well, I guess what I'm really getting at is that I hope no one here is foolish enough to buy the first year run of the Bronco. While I have no doubt it will sell in mass, I'm also 100% certain they'll have issues, just like almost any first year production vehicle does.

In 3 years or so, they'll have ironed most of it out. I just hate to be the "test dummy", especially on a vehicle that costs this much.

Of course I won't be buying one at all, I'll just live vicariously through you guys

I’d bet your right!!!

Well, 2023 will tell. I’m excited to see the beta testers do this!!!

 

[Byhumba]

Better articulation, lower crawl ratio, 35s from the factory.
Disconnects that release and engage while articulating.
Factory rock rails.

Approach/departure.... Id have to check but pretty sure they beat the JL.
V8s are history. You'll never see one from the factory in a Wrangler either.

Be interesting to see the Ford Used Car Lots filling with Wranglers next year.

Jeep is trying to steal some thunder from Bronco, or the 392 is coming to a Wrangler.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/13/jeep-wrangler-rubicon-392-concept-revealed/

 

[Rick Flair]

I stopped buying GM in 2012 when they would fix my 2011 Chevy Silverado that was burning 1 quart of oil every 800 miles. It had 40k on it and I bought it new. Almost all highway miles too. They said it was within the allowable limit. I had one warranty issue with my 2014 Ram 1500, they replaced my third brake light. They all go through peaks and valleys. Ford needs a win here, and I hope they get it. I just won't be standing in line, at least not until someone else has paid to be a beta tester.

Right?!? It’s such BS. My BIL has a 80k duramax. The damn seat heater didn’t work from day one. They messed his new truck up doing the fix, he took it back four times. Over a seat heater.

next door neighbor had his 2018 Denali in four times for transmission sudder. Last time, they didn’t tighten the pan and it dumped trans fluid all over his driveway. Current class action against GM for that shit 8 speed....

 

[Chris]

My guess is we'll see a mid-cycle refresh of the JL, complete with a 392 option, a high end suspension offering (i.e. Fox), and probably some cosmetic refreshes both inside and out.

Mid-cycle refreshes are common in the automotive industry, and people are Jeep knew this was coming for a long time (the Bronco), so I'd bet dollars to donuts they are indeed planning and answer to the Bronco, you can count on it.

Lastly, with the Bronco having IFS, you can almost count on it that the next generation Wrangler will have IFS for certain, and likely an option of solid axles on "off-road" package versions.

To the average person driving a JLU, the Bronco 4-door with IFS is a far better option, especially if you're never taking it off the pavement.

 

[rasband]

To the average person driving a JLU, the Bronco 4-door with IFS is a far better option, especially if you're never taking it off the pavement.

Other than the sales guy speak, do you think the average person understands this? Or even feels it in a test drive?

 

[TJ4Jim]

If I had to guess, Ford puts all their R&D into trucks since that's where the bread and butter is, because I've even heard of transmission issues (lots of them) on the news Mustangs.

Oh well, I guess what I'm really getting at is that I hope no one here is foolish enough to buy the first year run of the Bronco. While I have no doubt it will sell in mass, I'm also 100% certain they'll have issues, just like almost any first year production vehicle does.

In 3 years or so, they'll have ironed most of it out. I just hate to be the "test dummy", especially on a vehicle that costs this much.

Of course I won't be buying one at all, I'll just live vicariously through you guys

Plaintiffs are awaiting certification of a class action against Ford and the Mustang transmissions.

 

[Rick Flair]

My guess is we'll see a mid-cycle refresh of the JL, complete with a 392 option, a high end suspension offering (i.e. Fox), and probably some cosmetic refreshes both inside and out.

Mid-cycle refreshes are common in the automotive industry, and people are Jeep knew this was coming for a long time (the Bronco), so I'd bet dollars to donuts they are indeed planning and answer to the Bronco, you can count on it.

Lastly, with the Bronco having IFS, you can almost count on it that the next generation Wrangler will have IFS for certain, and likely an option of solid axles on "off-road" package versions.

To the average person driving a JLU, the Bronco 4-door with IFS is a far better option, especially if you're never taking it off the pavement.

One thing I really have to commend Ford on doing....you can order a base model Bronco and get the Sasquatch option (35” tires, lockers, beadlocks, sway bar disco and 4.7 tcase) without having to buy a top of the line model.

Jeep fucks people who don’t want all the bells and whistles.

 

[Chris]

Other than the sales guy speak, do you think the average person understands this? Or even feels it in a test drive?

With as good as they've gotten the solid axles to perform on-road, probably not.

But you're forgetting something very important that matters more than anything to auto manufacturers...COSTS!

My understanding is that IFS is cheaper to manufacture and produce. Maybe I'm wrong, that's what I've heard though.

And if that is true, making IFS the primary option would make more sense if it saves them money.

 

[Rick Flair]

Other than the sales guy speak, do you think the average person understands this? Or even feels it in a test drive?

Back to back drives, you’ll feel IFS driving much better on the test drive.

 

[Chris]

Plaintiffs are awaiting certification of a class action against Ford and the Mustang transmissions.

Ahhh, I knew there was a lawsuit going on for this.

Really makes you want to go out and buy a Ford, doesn't it?

I don't know much about Chevys or RAM trucks, but I don't think I've heard about all this sort of stuff outside of Ford. Nothing on this scale at least.

One thing I really have to commend Ford on doing....you can order a base model Bronco and get the Sasquatch option (35” tires, lockers, beadlocks, sway bar disco and 4.7 tcase) without having to buy a top of the line model.

Jeep fucks people who don’t want all the bells and whistles.

Yes, that's something nice they've done. I hate when companies force all the packages down your throat just to get one thing you want!

 

[Starrs]

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...ling certain 2018,pose an increased fire risk.

Couldn’t remember what all happened. Between that, the frames, and some catching on fire. It’s been one hell of a break in period for the Jeep/fiat

 

[Rick Flair]

Ahhh, I knew there was a lawsuit going on for this.

Really makes you want to go out and buy a Ford, doesn't it?

I don't know much about Chevys or RAM trucks, but I don't think I've heard about all this sort of stuff outside of Ford. Nothing on this scale at least.



Yes, that's something nice they've done. I hate when companies force all the packages down your throat just to get one thing you want!

Oh GM is suffering a class action suit for their 8 speed as well.

Ram has a decent one finally.

 

[Chris]

Oh GM is suffering a class action suit for their 8 speed as well.

Ram has a decent one finally.

I guess this is the result of the industry adopting new technology (transmissions) to meet EPA requirements (among other things). Wait until these transmissions have been out for over 10 years and you'll likely have something solid. But when they are new to the market, it might be painful.

Makes you appreciate an old manual transmission, I'll tell you that much.

 

[AMS417]

Oh GM is suffering a class action suit for their 8 speed as well.

Ram has a decent one finally.

The ZF 8 speed in both my 2014 and 2019 have both been awesome. I will say the 5.7 hemi has a lot of valve noise. I really was hoping for a 6.4 Rebel package, but gave up and got a Laramie with the Sport package too. 12" screen and pano roof. I like it.