Frustrated with my TJ

[Chris]

Oh, and the SE is telling me she needs front LCA skids and steering gear box protection now as well, so that's going on the list. Lol

Right!? If I do, I'll keep the SE. She's not going anywhere. Those JLR's sure look nice though, especially in red. Clackamas Town Center here I come! 35's are supposed to fit nicely under a JLR by the way...

With the JLR, you can forget about working on it yourself... unless you're a computer specialist

If you do all that, your SE is going to need a V8. That 4 banger isn't going to like 35" tires!

I keep telling myself I won't put a Chevy V8 in, but all roads are starting to lead there :risas3:

 

[StG58]

With the JLR, you can forget about working on it yourself... unless you're a computer specialist

If you do all that, your SE is going to need a V8. That 4 banger isn't going to like 35" tires!

I keep telling myself I won't put a Chevy V8 in, but all roads are starting to lead there :risas3:

32's and 5.13 gears for the SE. Theoretically I'll only gain about 250 to 300 pounds by the time it's done. Theoretically.

I refuse to even think about a V8. Have I mentioned that I love me some Chevy V8's? There's some tricks to those engines that can make them stupid powerful. Have you been through the Novak site? Sigh...

 

[Chris]

32's and 5.13 gears for the SE. Theoretically I'll only gain about 250 to 300 pounds by the time it's done. Theoretically.

I refuse to even think about a V8. Have I mentioned that I love me some Chevy V8's? There's some tricks to those engines that can make them stupid powerful. Have you been through the Novak site? Sigh...

Oh yes, I've been through the Novak site plenty of times. A Chevy V8 swap could be done for a reasonable cost if you got one of the V8s from a cargo van or similar. Sure, a Corvette LS engine would be cool, but no one needs 600hp in a TJ... it's pointless.

Hey... you've got a Suburban sitting around with a V8... right?

 

[StG58]

Oh yes, I've been through the Novak site plenty of times. A Chevy V8 swap could be done for a reasonable cost if you got one of the V8s from a cargo van or similar. Sure, a Corvette LS engine would be cool, but no one needs 600hp in a TJ... it's pointless.

Hey... you've got a Suburban sitting around with a V8... right?

It's a 454. Believe me, I've parked the two side by side and gone over every inch of both with a tape measure. The big block would require more body and frame work than it's worth. 460 horse and 600 ft-lbs of torque WOULD be fun though...

Oh, it's got a locked corporate 14 bolt in it too. Think Dana 60.

 

[RustyCage]

A Rubicon won't sit any higher, if that is an issue. I am happy where I am at with mine. It does what I need (mostly) and I haven't spent a fortune. A taller skid, engine skid, and a few odds and ends should complete it. I beat the poor thing up in Idaho last week; dented fender, scratches down the sides, grill and fenders rock blasted, plus a busted headlight. Felt bad for treating her so poorly.

Where'd you run in Idaho!?

 

[Chris]

It's a 454. Believe me, I've parked the two side by side and gone over every inch of both with a tape measure. The big block would require more body and frame work than it's worth. 460 horse and 600 ft-lbs of torque WOULD be fun though...

Oh, it's got a locked corporate 14 bolt in it too. Think Dana 60.

Yep, that engine is too big for your TJ realistically. It would be cool, but definitely more work than it would be worth.

And with full width Dana 60s, then you need some GenRight (or similar tube fenders), completely new steering (thing PSC), and at that point you'd better be ready to spend 30k or more!

 

[JMT]

Why the coil spacers? Just curious... The whole point of the the H&R springs was to replace my old sagging stock springs because the poor TJ was dragging it's gas tank skid across drainage bars (mini cut and berms) on logging roads... The springs fixed that. The springs needed longer shocks, hence the new Bilsteins...bad choice it seems though. So now to wedge a new set of Ranchos under there and do the whole suspension cycling thing all over again. Since I'm getting tire rub on the passenger side now at full lock, and better backspace on the wheels isn't on the list at the moment, a new front track bar is in order.

Anyway, I've got a build plan out for the next couple of years. Here it is. Feel free to shoot holes in it. I've spun in circles forever over the limited slip vs. lockers deal for a year now.

Block one
H&R springs (Done)
Bilstein 5100 shocks (Done)
KO2 31x10.50R15 tires (Done)

Block two $380 left
Full tune up (Done)
Centric front brakes (full kit, stock) (Done)
Centric rear brakes (full kit, stock) (Done)
YJ front brake hoses (Done)
ZJ Moog Front track bar (Done)
JKS quicker disconnects (Done)
JKS front track bar OGS126 $240
LED Tail lights $32 (Done)
LED Flasher EP26 $13 (Done)
3rd brake light / License plate light / license plate spare tire mount Ace #ACESTPR $95 (Done)

Block three $1,055
UCF aluminum winch plate $140
Engo SR9S winch $449
Smittybilt Premium Sailcloth replace-a-top $250 (Done)
Bestop replacement tailgate bar $66.95

Block four $2,453 (not including gear install)
Revolution Gear and Axle 5.13 gears & Master install kit $476
Alloy Dana 30 & Dana 35 axle shaft kits
Rear Dana 35
Left Hand - YA WM35C-27-L-HD [21304] $151 Yukon 4340 Chrome Moly 27 spline. 30 11/16" long, requires screw-in axle studs (part number YSPSTUD-010)
Right Hand - YA WM35C-27-R-HD [21306] $151 Yukon 4340 Chrome Moly 27 spline. 29 1/8" long, requires screw-in axle studs (part number YSPSTUD-010).
Front Dana 30
Left Inner - YA W38821 [21358] $125 Yukon 4340 Chrome-Moly left-hand, inner axle. Uses 5-760X u-joint, 27 spline, 16.63" from end of splines to center of u-joint bore.
Right Inner - YA W38875 [21359] $301 Yukon 4340 Chrome-Moly right hand, inner axle. Uses 5-760X u-joint, 27 spline, 32.36" from end of splines to center of u-joint bore
Outer (x2) - YA W39125 [21361] $103x 2 Yukon 4340 Chrome-Moly outer stub axle, Uses 5-760X u-joint, 27 spline, 6.11" from end of splines to center of u-joint bore.
Spicer 5-760X u-joint $25 x 2
Yukon studs YSPSTUD-010 $3.50 x 20
Detroit Truetrac(s)
Dana 30 - Eaton Detroit TrueTrac 912A585 27 Spline $451
Dana 35 - Eaton Detroit TrueTrac 912A569 27 Spline $472

Block five $780
Core4x4 control arms, tier 2, rubber/JJ, +hardware, core4x4_tj_set8_T2 $780

Block six $1,105
M.O.R.E. 1" body lift BLTJ97 $150
Brown Dog 1" MML and engine mounts KU2569-1H $275
Savvy transfer case shifter $170
Advance Adapters SYE with Tom Wood rear drive shaft $510

Block seven $1,478
UCF rocker guards (Genright with backers?) $350
UCF tailgate hinges $158
UCF deep cover skid plate system, aluminum, UHC $760
UCF high clearance aluminum gas tank skid $368

Block eight $1,500
32x11.50R15 tires $200 x 5
15x8 wheels $100 x 5

Total: $8,751 (without gear install)

With the weight your adding (I think you said you calculated 380lbs), I think you're going to need more SL, even with the BL. I'd say 2.5"SL because that's going to get reduced to just under 2" (depending on spring rate, but try finding that without contacting the company, excepting OME), and then a 1"BL will get you to 3" and you can run the 32x11.5's. Otherwise, I think you are going to be short with the H&R springs. Spacers would work, but they'd need to be about 1"

 

[bobthetj03]

Why the coil spacers? Just curious... The whole point of the the H&R springs was to replace my old sagging stock springs because the poor TJ was dragging it's gas tank skid across drainage bars (mini cut and berms) on logging roads... The springs fixed that. The springs needed longer shocks, hence the new Bilsteins...bad choice it seems though. So now to wedge a new set of Ranchos under there and do the whole suspension cycling thing all over again. Since I'm getting tire rub on the passenger side now at full lock, and better backspace on the wheels isn't on the list at the moment, a new front track bar is in order.

Anyway, I've got a build plan out for the next couple of years. Here it is. Feel free to shoot holes in it. I've spun in circles forever over the limited slip vs. lockers deal for a year now.

Block one
H&R springs (Done)
Bilstein 5100 shocks (Done)
KO2 31x10.50R15 tires (Done)

Block two $380 left
Full tune up (Done)
Centric front brakes (full kit, stock) (Done)
Centric rear brakes (full kit, stock) (Done)
YJ front brake hoses (Done)
ZJ Moog Front track bar (Done)
JKS quicker disconnects (Done)
JKS front track bar OGS126 $240
LED Tail lights $32 (Done)
LED Flasher EP26 $13 (Done)
3rd brake light / License plate light / license plate spare tire mount Ace #ACESTPR $95 (Done)

Block three $1,055
UCF aluminum winch plate $140
Engo SR9S winch $449
Smittybilt Premium Sailcloth replace-a-top $250 (Done)
Bestop replacement tailgate bar $66.95

Block four $2,453 (not including gear install)
Revolution Gear and Axle 5.13 gears & Master install kit $476
Alloy Dana 30 & Dana 35 axle shaft kits
Rear Dana 35
Left Hand - YA WM35C-27-L-HD [21304] $151 Yukon 4340 Chrome Moly 27 spline. 30 11/16" long, requires screw-in axle studs (part number YSPSTUD-010)
Right Hand - YA WM35C-27-R-HD [21306] $151 Yukon 4340 Chrome Moly 27 spline. 29 1/8" long, requires screw-in axle studs (part number YSPSTUD-010).
Front Dana 30
Left Inner - YA W38821 [21358] $125 Yukon 4340 Chrome-Moly left-hand, inner axle. Uses 5-760X u-joint, 27 spline, 16.63" from end of splines to center of u-joint bore.
Right Inner - YA W38875 [21359] $301 Yukon 4340 Chrome-Moly right hand, inner axle. Uses 5-760X u-joint, 27 spline, 32.36" from end of splines to center of u-joint bore
Outer (x2) - YA W39125 [21361] $103x 2 Yukon 4340 Chrome-Moly outer stub axle, Uses 5-760X u-joint, 27 spline, 6.11" from end of splines to center of u-joint bore.
Spicer 5-760X u-joint $25 x 2
Yukon studs YSPSTUD-010 $3.50 x 20
Detroit Truetrac(s)
Dana 30 - Eaton Detroit TrueTrac 912A585 27 Spline $451
Dana 35 - Eaton Detroit TrueTrac 912A569 27 Spline $472

Block five $780
Core4x4 control arms, tier 2, rubber/JJ, +hardware, core4x4_tj_set8_T2 $780

Block six $1,105
M.O.R.E. 1" body lift BLTJ97 $150
Brown Dog 1" MML and engine mounts KU2569-1H $275
Savvy transfer case shifter $170
Advance Adapters SYE with Tom Wood rear drive shaft $510

Block seven $1,478
UCF rocker guards (Genright with backers?) $350
UCF tailgate hinges $158
UCF deep cover skid plate system, aluminum, UHC $760
UCF high clearance aluminum gas tank skid $368

Block eight $1,500
32x11.50R15 tires $200 x 5
15x8 wheels $100 x 5

Total: $8,751 (without gear install)

So your end goal is 32's then. Ok, take a tape measure and measure how much up travel you have right now as it sits. Don't include the jounce bumpers. Bottom of spring pad to metal jounce bumper cup. How much up travel you gots? If you have extended bump stops, them measure from them up.

 

[StG58]

I strongly recommend you talk to Dave Kishpaugh. He really knows his stuff.

That said, I really think the TJ really shines with a small lift and slightly bigger tires than what comes stock. I really like the 2.5" lift and 32" tires combo for many reasons. I think it's a sweet spot for a lot of us in general. This is what I have and this is where I'm staying.

Tinkering with the Jeep is fun and it's easy to get caught in the frenzy. But there are definite advantages for a small lift. You are much more experienced and knowledgeable than me, I'm sure you've seen both sides of the argument and I'm sure you are doing your things for a reason. Stay with it and you'll figure out a way!

I would, but I feel bad about picking his brain if I don't buy something from him. His time is worth something, and I'd feel like I was stealing from him.

 

[StG58]

So your end goal is 32's then. Ok, take a tape measure and measure how much up travel you have right now as it sits. Don't include the jounce bumpers. Bottom of spring pad to metal jounce bumper cup. How much up travel you gots? If you have extended bump stops, them measure from them up.

5-3/4" front, 6" rear. +/- 1/8". No additional bump stops (yet) as everything fits so far. Just threw a tape on it.

 

[Chris]

I would, but I feel bad about picking his brain if I don't buy something from him. His time is worth something, and I'd feel like I was stealing from him.

You'd be surprised... that guy just likes talking and giving free advice, it's one thing I really like about him.

I'm actually speaking with him as I type this about dropping off my Jeep to have him outboard the rear shocks, install the RubiCrawler, and extend my Savvy arms in the rear.

He was telling me I might just want to do 4-link, but when I mentioned I drive it on the road quite often, he had said something about 4-link isn't really good for a daily driver under load. Not sure what that means.

Either way, he's a very nice guy and he doesn't have give off that vibe where you feel like you're bugging him or anything.

 

[StG58]

With the weight your adding (I think you said you calculated 380lbs), I think you're going to need more SL, even with the BL. I'd say 2.5"SL because that's going to get reduced to just under 2" (depending on spring rate, but try finding that without contacting the company, excepting OME), and then a 1"BL will get you to 3" and you can run the 32x11.5's. Otherwise, I think you are going to be short with the H&R springs. Spacers would work, but they'd need to be about 1"

250 to 300 pounds. Close enough though. Nothing ever works out per plan, right?

 

[StG58]

You'd be surprised... that guy just likes talking and giving free advice, it's one thing I really like about him.

I'm actually speaking with him as I type this about dropping off my Jeep to have him outboard the rear shocks, install the RubiCrawler, and extend my Savvy arms in the rear.

He was telling me I might just want to do 4-link, but when I mentioned I drive it on the road quite often, he had said something about 4-link isn't really good for a daily driver under load. Not sure what that means.

Either way, he's a very nice guy and he doesn't have give off that vibe where you feel like you're bugging him or anything.

He's in Sandy, or was it Estacada? I might motor out and have a chat with him then.

 

[bobthetj03]

5-3/4" front, 6" rear. +/- 1/8". No additional bump stops (yet) as everything fits so far. Just threw a tape on it.

That is actually a good amount of up travel. stock is 4" up, 4" down as a general rule. 6" and 6" would be the bees knees. I figured that with the 1" coil spacers you could gain an additional inch of up travel, and with the upcoming body lift, you wouldn't have to add any additional bumpstop for the 32's. You want as much up travel as you can muster for a better ride. Even though those jounce bumpers are soft, they still add to the harshness over smaller road events. If your front shocks have an exposed piston rod, you could do the zip tie test and do some normal everyday driving and see how often you are hitting the jounces.

 

[JMT]

250 to 300 pounds. Close enough though. Nothing ever works out per plan, right?

What are your spring rates?

 

[StG58]

That is actually a good amount of up travel. stock is 4" up, 4" down as a general rule. 6" and 6" would be the bees knees. I figured that with the 1" coil spacers you could gain an additional inch of up travel, and with the upcoming body lift, you wouldn't have to add any additional bumpstop for the 32's. You want as much up travel as you can muster for a better ride. Even though those jounce bumpers are soft, they still add to the harshness over smaller road events. If your front shocks have an exposed piston rod, you could do the zip tie test and do some normal everyday driving and see how often you are hitting the jounces.

I've been trying to keep the suspension travel as balanced as humanly possible. Good points. And avoiding additional bump stop. So far, so good.

 

[StG58]

What are your spring rates?

Don't know for sure, I'll try to find out or load test to get a rough estimate.

 

[psrivats]

I would, but I feel bad about picking his brain if I don't buy something from him. His time is worth something, and I'd feel like I was stealing from him.

I would think you can buy one of his recommended trackbars from him instead of Amazon or elsewhere

He's in Sandy, or was it Estacada? I might motor out and have a chat with him then.

I went to his shop in Oregon City.

 

[StG58]

What are your spring rates?

So, I went out, set a tape measure, and sat on a fender. 15/16" difference for 245 pounds. Then realized that isn't a useful bit of information. Sure, I loaded the spring and measured the difference, but I also unloaded the off side spring, was working through an unknown lever arm, got into the sway bar and etc. I'll try to figure out a better way, and try contacting H&R to get a spring rate to work with.

 

[Chris]

He's in Sandy, or was it Estacada? I might motor out and have a chat with him then.

He works at Jeep West in Oregon City. He was doing it all out of the shop on his property in Estacada, but now he's at Jeep West permanently.