Heavy steering feedback: Feels like a lack of power steering

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Hoaglandcm

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New to me 1997 TJ. I have gone through the suspension (new Currie 4” springs with 35” tires added to a RC long arm (was already on the Jeep) and front end/steering replaced pretty most everything (new ball joints, complete currectlync, pitman arm, jks track bar, knuckles & hubs and removed the steering stabilizer (for the moment). It has the factory steering pump and a Dakota steering gear installed by the PO.

It steers smoothly and easily without binding or noise lock to lock. (no whine from the steering pump and very little slop in the steering gear).

The issue I am experiencing is that fast steering inputs (sawing the wheel left/right quickly at 20 mph, or a fast emergency type steering correction in one direction) results in HEAVY steering feedback. there is significant resistance to turn in the wheel feels like a lack of power steering .

I’m unfamiliar enough with the steering to know if that’s normal or if the pump is weak and just can’t build the pressure to assist or if I need to look elsewhere for a problem (there isn’t much left to replace)
 
Hmm, it's hard to say without driving it, but I would say that's pretty normal, especially with heavy, 35" tires. I know the steering definitely doesn't respond nice and fast like a sports car with that setup.
 
I'd look into the Dakota steering box. I remember when I had my steering box replaced, the steering became so easy that I was almost unable to drive safely for a few days. I don't know enough about a power steering system to figure out why the change was so significant with a new steering box. My best guess is that the ratio changed, giving the steering system more mechanical advantage against the resistance of turning big tires.

What you're feeling is definitely not normal. I can turn my steering wheel with 1 finger and I run 35's.
 
There are larger aftermarket pumps that can be installed, however I seem to recall them being quite expensive.

The Durango box may require higher fluid flow volume, so it’s likely you’ve hit the limits of what the power steering pump can provide. It’s a trade off of speed versus turning force.

Hopefully someone with more experience can respond.

My first guess would have been the resistance from the steering damper, but since you have it removed, that’s clearly not the issue.

If you find yourself frequently hitting the limits, adding something like a suicide knob might help you turn the wheel more quickly in the meantime, especially if you’re shifting a manual.
 
Jerry Bransford said:
What tire pressure is in those 35" tires? Should be 24-26 psi. Make sure your power steering reservoir is filled to where it needs to be too.
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Tires are currently actually high pressure at 32psi. They will be dropped down to about 25 once it’s back on the road.

I did check the fluid level it’s at the full line of the dip stick.

It’s just an odd situation that I haven’t experienced in any lifted truck before. Steering is smooth and easy if you gently turn the wheel. It only gets hard when you execute a rapid steering input like you were trying to avoid something that jumped out in front of you or an unexpected pot hole. Then the steering feels like there’s no power assist.
 
I suspect by Dakota, you probably mean Durango which has a larger bore than the stock steering gear. The larger bore places a higher demand on the pump in order to have the same response to steering input at lower speeds when the engine RPM is turning the pump slower. If you add a pump that is losing performance to the higher demands of the larger bore, or have a swapped in pump from a generic rebuilder, low speed response can suffer.

The tire pressure thing wasn't clarified very well. At your current 32 psi, the tires will be easier to turn and will require more effort from the system as the tire pressure drops. The lower the pressure, the harder they are to turn.
 
I also drive a TJ with 35's. The steering isn't the greatest to say the least plus I have a 4in lift on it as well. But I already knew this before buying it. I would agree with Chris that is probably normal but something like that is kind of hard to tell without driving it.
 
Chris said:
Hmm, it's hard to say without driving it, but I would say that's pretty normal, especially with heavy, 35" tires. I know the steering definitely doesn't respond nice and fast like a sports car with that setup.
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I’ve run 35-37” tires on all of our trucks and rigs. And yes agree that at slow speeds the steering can be heavier...but even at 30-40mph there is a significant difference in the effort to turn the wheel of the TJ.

If the input is slow/gentle like taking a curve or turning at an intersection I can turn the wheel with a few fingers.

If it’s fast like an avoidance manuever I have to pull the wheel hard to get it to move. (It feels like the Jeep is standing still and you are turning the wheel ...it moves but it’s hard to turn)
 
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mrblaine said:
I suspect by Dakota, you probably mean Durango which has a larger bore than the stock steering gear. The larger bore places a higher demand on the pump in order to have the same response to steering input at lower speeds when the engine RPM is turning the pump slower. If you add a pump that is losing performance to the higher demands of the larger bore, or have a swapped in pump from a generic rebuilder, low speed response can suffer.

The tire pressure thing wasn't clarified very well. At your current 32 psi, the tires will be easier to turn and will require more effort from the system as the tire pressure drops. The lower the pressure, the harder they are to turn.
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Yes I did mean Durango. Mistype on my part.

Ok the Durango steering gear is a larger bore. That could explain it. Not enough instantaneous volume with a “tired” but still functional steering pump to support a rapid input.

The “right” route is probably to replace the steering gear vs sourcing high volume pump.
 
Hoaglandcm said:
I’ve run 35-37” tires on all of our trucks and rigs. And yes agree that at slow speeds the steering can be heavier...but even at 30-40mph there is a significant difference in the effort to turn the wheel of the TJ.

If the input is slow/gentle like taking a curve or turning at an intersection I can turn the wheel with a few fingers.

If it’s fast like an avoidance manuever I have to pull the wheel hard to get it to move. (It feels like the Jeep is standing still and you are turning the wheel ...it moves but it’s hard to turn)
Click to expand...
Something does sound right then. I can hit 60-70mph (rarely do I go this fast) but steering is still pretty smooth.
 
Hoaglandcm said:
I’ve run 35-37” tires on all of our trucks and rigs. And yes agree that at slow speeds the steering can be heavier...but even at 30-40mph there is a significant difference in the effort to turn the wheel of the TJ.

If the input is slow/gentle like taking a curve or turning at an intersection I can turn the wheel with a few fingers.

If it’s fast like an avoidance manuever I have to pull the wheel hard to get it to move. (It feels like the Jeep is standing still and you are turning the wheel ...it moves but it’s hard to turn)
Click to expand...

This is a long shot since this post was 2019 but did you ever figure this out? Seem to be having the same issue with a psc sg400r and psc pump(normal reservoir) and the 16in heat sink cooler.
 
NPhopper said:
This is a long shot since this post was 2019 but did you ever figure this out? Seem to be having the same issue with a psc sg400r and psc pump(normal reservoir) and the 16in heat sink cooler.
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Post up some pics of the plumbing, more specifically, all of the fittings you used to plumb in the gear and cooler.

What is a "normal" reservoir?
 
mrblaine said:
Post up some pics of the plumbing, more specifically, all of the fittings you used to plumb in the gear and cooler.

What is a "normal" reservoir?
Click to expand...
I apologize in advance im a little all over the place and have tried to understand this for the last 3 day.


I appreciate the response!



Well i originally tried to mount it in front with the v bar, i made sure to have everything lower and all air out. I cracked the return lines at the box as i saw it suggested by you on a thread.cycled it off the ground slowly lock to lock. Checked for leaks. Found none so i took it for a test drive and if i turn the wheel quick it feels as if i hit a wall,but when done slowly it was done without issue. I started to look at my lines the return line was rather long so for a temporary solution to test for the problem.



I ended up mounting to the wheel well outside to reduce the run of the 3/8 ps line i went from 5 feet of return line to about a foot totally not including the 16 inch cooler. It was just a test and i dont plan on keeping it there.







Important info that was actually asked for:

I have the return line from a the reservoir mounted on the pump.( i had seen you talking in a thread about cooler kit and using the remote reservoir from psc to use an -8AN from the remote reservoir to get more fluid back into the cooler.)

I have the small stock like reservoir attatch to the pump. It has the plastic nipple for 3/8 hose. That is about a 7 inch run to the cooler mounted on the wheel well. The coolet runs at a slight doward angle. Then theres a 7 inch hose to the box.



Connecters for the cooler where -6AN.



My thought was it was too restrictive of the fluid so quick movement has it bind up.

Higher rpms do not change the issue.

Pics:

16815979028746027482438709644646.jpg


16815979525554978032241042598481.jpg


16815983996511047980844519655831.jpg


16815987342347095177698708384339.jpg
 
NPhopper said:
I apologize in advance im a little all over the place and have tried to understand this for the last 3 day.


I appreciate the response!



Well i originally tried to mount it in front with the v bar, i made sure to have everything lower and all air out. I cracked the return lines at the box as i saw it suggested by you on a thread.cycled it off the ground slowly lock to lock. Checked for leaks. Found none so i took it for a test drive and if i turn the wheel quick it feels as if i hit a wall,but when done slowly it was done without issue. I started to look at my lines the return line was rather long so for a temporary solution to test for the problem.



I ended up mounting to the wheel well outside to reduce the run of the 3/8 ps line i went from 5 feet of return line to about a foot totally not including the 16 inch cooler. It was just a test and i dont plan on keeping it there.







Important info that was actually asked for:

I have the return line from a the reservoir mounted on the pump.( i had seen you talking in a thread about cooler kit and using the remote reservoir from psc to use an -8AN from the remote reservoir to get more fluid back into the cooler.)

I have the small stock like reservoir attatch to the pump. It has the plastic nipple for 3/8 hose. That is about a 7 inch run to the cooler mounted on the wheel well. The coolet runs at a slight doward angle. Then theres a 7 inch hose to the box.



Connecters for the cooler where -6AN.



My thought was it was too restrictive of the fluid so quick movement has it bind up.

Higher rpms do not change the issue.

Pics:

View attachment 416812

View attachment 416813

View attachment 416816

View attachment 416818
Click to expand...

16816038422764220527547566328493.jpg
 
mrblaine said:
I don't see anything obviously restricting flow which could cause a low steering response. Did you order the steering gear from PSC and if so, did you order it stock as they make it or something special?
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I ordered directly from psc. I ordered the sg400r big bore xd cylinder assist with their SP1205c with reservoir and pulley. Along with their 16 in single pass heat sink with -6AN fittings. Nothing special that i know about. They ended up sending me a second pump so i went through again and took even more time bleeding the new pump. Being very careful. But still no avail. They also sent me another box to try but i really dont see how it could be that?

Screenshot_20230415_182525_Chrome.jpg
 
NPhopper said:
I ordered directly from psc. I ordered the sg400r big bore xd cylinder assist with their SP1205c with reservoir and pulley. Along with their 16 in single pass heat sink with -6AN fittings. Nothing special that i know about. They ended up sending me a second pump so i went through again and took even more time bleeding the new pump. Being very careful. But still no avail. They also sent me another box to try but i really dont see how it could be that?

View attachment 416903
Click to expand...

Very unlikely it is the box. I'd ask them if you could trade in that pump for the remote reservoir version and high volume steel pump and -12 feed line. Then convert the return side to -8, get the cooler in the grill where it belongs and that will likely fix it up. With a .190 t-bar, that thing should have no lag whatsoever without a cylinder in the mix.
 
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mrblaine said:
Very unlikely it is the box. I'd ask them if you could trade in that pump for the remote reservoir version and high volume steel pump and -12 feed line. Then convert the return side to -8, get the cooler in the grill where it belongs and that will likely fix it up. With a .190 t-bar, that thing should have no lag whatsoever without a cylinder in the mix.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your help, i will go ahead and contact psc.
 
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