Help With Gear Install

If you run it without the crush sleeve or the crush sleeve not collapsed the pinion bearings won't be locked tightly together with the sleeve. Your bearings will be preloaded against the rollers and races and between the pinion head and the slinger and yoke, but no tension between the inner races of the cone and roller assemblies. Is this a problem? I think that tension should be there, you wouldn't believe how much that stuff can flex in there when put under severe stress. Such as climbing a rock slipping a tire off and reloading that tire, all your axles wind up and release that energy.

One hard core racer I knew running 9" Ford axles with Moser 40 spline gun drilled axles, and nodular iron case would have us rebuild his 9" without a crush sleeve but using a hard spacer machined to fit for preload and could have the pinion nut torqued to a high load. Buuuut he was running a 500 HP big block Chevy + 250 shot of nitrous.

Wheel bearings on old Corvette rear axles required hard spacers selective fit between the tapered roller bearings even though they were set with .003 to .010 lash.
 
Yendra Built said:
If you run it without the crush sleeve or the crush sleeve not collapsed the pinion bearings won't be locked tightly together with the sleeve. Your bearings will be preloaded against the rollers and races and between the pinion head and the slinger and yoke, but no tension between the inner races of the cone and roller assemblies. Is this a problem? I think that tension should be there, you wouldn't believe how much that stuff can flex in there when put under severe stress. Such as climbing a rock slipping a tire off and reloading that tire, all your axles wind up and release that energy.

One hard core racer I knew running 9" Ford axles with Moser 40 spline gun drilled axles, and nodular iron case would have us rebuild his 9" without a crush sleeve but using a hard spacer machined to fit for preload and could have the pinion nut torqued to a high load. Buuuut he was running a 500 HP big block Chevy + 250 shot of nitrous.

Wheel bearings on old Corvette rear axles required hard spacers selective fit between the tapered roller bearings even though they were set with .003 to .010 lash.
Click to expand...

I definitely understand what you're saying. If you have the time to read through it I'd love to hear your thoughts on the discussion in the link I posted back in post #11 of this thread. I would definitely rather the crush sleeve be in there. But that conversation made some good points.
 
So, all the pinion depth is now behind the bearing, not the race? And still the same? You have to run a crush sleeve. There has to be something for the pinion nut to bind against. Using the bearings to do so will fry them in short order.
 
dsharp6855 said:
I can't get the link to work. I got the spec from the factory service manual.
Click to expand...
Here's the post:

ANY shimmed Dana,
Get yourself a regular pinion nut, you are going to be running it on and off WAY too many times to use the 'Prevaling Torque' nut,

If you use the Prevailing Torque nut to set up bearing pre-load, you WILL kill the nut's ability to lock it's self into place,
And you WILL kill the threads on the pinion.

USE LUBRICANT ON THE THREADS!
If you don't lubricant the threads on the pinion, you will gall the threads with all the hammering on and off of the nut while you get the shims right.

DO NOT use an impact wrench to 'Tighten' on fine threads!
Impact wrenches to tighten fine threads, you will eventually ruin the threads.

LEAVE THE PINION SEAL OUT until you have the preload you are looking for...

——————————————-

Once you have a PLAIN nut (No 'Crimp' to screw up the threads on the pinion),

INSIDE shims determine the pinion's effects on the ring gear.

OUTSIDE shims determine the bearing pre-loads.

You don't need more than about 35 to 50 Ft.Lbs. on the pinion nut to determine rotating preload.

Once you get the shims in the outside about where you 'Think' they will give you the preload you want,
Put the yoke on, tighten the nut to about 35 Ft.Lbs. and check for rotational torque.
Around 25 INCH POUNDS when it's just the pinion (No carrier/ring gear),
Up to 40-50 INCH POUNDS with the carrier/ring gear in place.

With the carrier/ring gear in the housing, I usually shoot for around 35-45 Inch Pounds....

When I come up with the low side of that, I put the yoke on and actually tighten to about 75 Ft.Lbs. on the spindle nut.
You aren't going compress the shims, metal inner bearing hub, ect. any more past about 75 Ft. Lbs. on the nut, but around 75 Ft.Lbs. is enough to seat everything, squeeze out oil/grease from between the shims/bearing/pinion shoulder,

So if at 75 Ft.Lbs. I still have a rotational torque in the specified range,
I back off the assembly nut, remove the yoke,
Put the seal in the housing, grease the lip,
I use 'Never-Seize' or heavy grease on the pinion threads,
And install the yoke,
and put the actual 'Prevailing Torque' (Crimp Type Lock Nut) on the yoke threads,

Run the actual lock nut down to the specified torque, which is around 225 Ft.Lbs. and do one last check on the rotational torque...

Which usually gains about one or two inch pounds between the 'Assembly' nut torque of 75 to total of 200 Ft.Lbs. with the lock nut...

———————————

Did you wind up with three sizes of shims for the pinion?

If you have THREE sets of shims off the pinion,
That means your housing was cut undersized from the factory, and you are probably going to need shims under the bearings 'Cups' or 'Races' on both sides of the housing.

The shims under the PINION HEAD side bearing determines your gear pattern, front to rear in the housing.

IF YOU TIGHTEN UP THE PINION NUT ON THE YOKE/PINION (set up or assembly torque) AND THE PINION MOVES IN AND OUT OF THE HOUSING...
Then you need more shims under the YOKE SIDE BEARING RACE IN THE HOUSING...

Once you get that puppy shimmed up enough to get the slop out of the stack,
Then you can go after rotational preload shims...
 
Yendra Built said:
If you run it without the crush sleeve or the crush sleeve not collapsed the pinion bearings won't be locked tightly together with the sleeve. Your bearings will be preloaded against the rollers and races and between the pinion head and the slinger and yoke, but no tension between the inner races of the cone and roller assemblies. Is this a problem? I think that tension should be there, you wouldn't believe how much that stuff can flex in there when put under severe stress. Such as climbing a rock slipping a tire off and reloading that tire, all your axles wind up and release that energy.

One hard core racer I knew running 9" Ford axles with Moser 40 spline gun drilled axles, and nodular iron case would have us rebuild his 9" without a crush sleeve but using a hard spacer machined to fit for preload and could have the pinion nut torqued to a high load. Buuuut he was running a 500 HP big block Chevy + 250 shot of nitrous.

Wheel bearings on old Corvette rear axles required hard spacers selective fit between the tapered roller bearings even though they were set with .003 to .010 lash.
Click to expand...
Some differentials set up with shims for preload instead of a crush sleeve. Using a solid spacer like you mentioned is a good way to go. It is consistent as opposed to a stack of thin shims that can spin off and change the preload. The difficult part is, you have to machine it to the correct thickness, so a lot of trial and error.
 
Rob5589 said:
So, all the pinion depth is now behind the bearing, not the race? And still the same? You have to run a crush sleeve. There has to be something for the pinion nut to bind against. Using the bearings to do so will fry them in short order.
Click to expand...

That's correct. I just don't know what to do from here.
 
Rob5589 said:
To recap: Both races seated correctly; nothing behind either of them; using slinger as depth shim. Can you post some pics of the new and old pinion gear next to one another.
Click to expand...

Sure, I have already put it back to the way I had it first. The opinions look the same to me.

20200308_095458.jpg
 
the Revo kit did the same thing for my JK axle.
it takes the shims out from under the inside race (like most write ups describe them placed) and moves them to behind the pinion head on top of the bearing. this did not seem correct to me but they are not the diameter of the bearing cup and would be very hard to keep stacked clean behind the cup, leaving a much smaller diameter i'd need to slip the crush sleeve through.

but his should decrease the distance between bearing cones internally and engage the crush sleeve a few thou earlier is all really.

my front and a rear crush sleeves are not even close to equal length, IDK if thats true for TJ axles? you got the right 1?
 
Rob5589 said:
For set up, you are running the slinger under the rear bearing?
Click to expand...

The shims that came with the Revo kit moved them to between the race and housing so this is the way I initially set it up. I wanted to reuse the slinger but could not because it was too thick to get the pinion depth right. I reinstalled the slinger to check the crush sleeve issue but it felt pretty much the same.
 
someguysjeep said:
the Revo kit did the same thing for my JK axle.
it takes the shims out from under the inside race (like most write ups describe them placed) and moves them to behind the pinion head on top of the bearing. this did not seem correct to me but they are not the diameter of the bearing cup and would be very hard to keep stacked clean behind the cup, leaving a much smaller diameter i'd need to slip the crush sleeve through.

but his should decrease the distance between bearing cones internally and engage the crush sleeve a few thou earlier is all really.

my front and a rear crush sleeves are not even close to equal length, IDK if thats true for TJ axles? you got the right 1?
Click to expand...

Mine did the opposite. Moved them from between the pinion head and bearing to between the race and housing.
 
dsharp6855 said:
The shims that came with the Revo kit moved them to between the race and housing so this is the way I initially set it up. I wanted to reuse the slinger but could not because it was too thick to get the pinion depth right. I reinstalled the slinger to check the crush sleeve issue but it felt pretty much the same.
Click to expand...
I get that. By placing shims behind the race, the distance between the bearings increases. That increase may be your issue. Run the slinger, no other shims, try to set the preload. Don't worry about the depth right now.
 
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Rob5589 said:
I get that. By placing shims behind the race, the distance between the bearings increases. That increase may be your issue. Run the slinger, no other shims, try to set the preload. Don't worry about the depth right now.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll give it another shot. But couldn't detect a difference last time. What I dont understand is why Revo doesn't just send shims to go in the correct place. They have to know that could become an issue. If the slinger corrects the crush sleeve issue, what do I do if the pinion is too deep?
 
dsharp6855 said:
Okay, I'll give it another shot. But couldn't detect a difference last time. What I dont understand is why Revo doesn't just send shims to go in the correct place. They have to know that could become an issue. If the slinger corrects the crush sleeve issue, what do I do if the pinion is too deep?
Click to expand...
It is easier to send shims for behind the race since you can mix and match to obtain the correct depth.
 
correct me if i'm wrong plz , but the slinger goes between the pinion head and the bearing correct?

i did not notice it on the pics. i thought it was larger in diameter than the bearing cone.

and the Dana 30 has or does not have a baffle behind the inner cup?
 
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