How durable are the factory TJ Rubicon lockers?

[derekmac]

Since I just bought a Rubi, this is a good read. A couple of guys I know we're telling me to lock the rear right away as it was less stressful on the rear end. A lot of the trails we run have long muddy sections where low range would be less than ideal though. I do plan on doing the locker bypass though, so I will be able to engage in high range.

 

[Chris]

Since I just bought a Rubi, this is a good read. A couple of guys I know we're telling me to lock the rear right away as it was less stressful on the rear end. A lot of the trails we run have long muddy sections where low range would be less than ideal though. I do plan on doing the locker bypass though, so I will be able to engage in high range.

Your stock lockers are more than adequate. Run them until they break (if that even happens), and only then should you throw money at aftermarket lockers.

 

[Troll]

Can I assume the reason the rear won't take any shock loading has to do with the integrated limited slip in the rear locker?

Hope I am not stating the obvious but remember the limited slip is under zero strain any time the locker is engaged since there is no load difference to compensate for. After a few days research on all types and brands of lockers I found that the rear lockers fail at a higher rate due to the increased thrashing they receive on all styles and brands.

 

[billiebob]

Lockers are as fragile as any manual mechanical transmission part. They need a second or two with zero load to engage, disengage. Most damage occurs when you try to shift them under load and they only partially engage. You need to be deliberate. You need to understand what they do when you flip the switch. Once fully engaged,,, they are pretty bullet proof. Or at least as bullet proof as the rest of the TJ power train.

But the right guy can break anything.

 

[Ben Jarvis]

What's the most common way of breaking lockers or axles by mis-use? I have a totally stock 2005 Rubicon. I never engage the transfer case or the lockers unless I'm at a stop and in neutral. I never use them except at a crawl. Sometimes the vehicle is somewhat heavily loaded with full fuel, driver, three passengers and a couple hundred pounds of gear. I used to turn them on for only very challenging parts of trail, and engage both front and rear, but now tend to leave them on for all the low 4WD on rough road as the vehicle moves more steadily and surely forward and seems to do less damage to the road. Under those conditions, what is the biggest risk of breaking or damaging the lockers?

 

[Drizit]

What's the most common way of breaking lockers or axles by mis-use? I have a totally stock 2005 Rubicon. I never engage the transfer case or the lockers unless I'm at a stop and in neutral. I never use them except at a crawl. Sometimes the vehicle is somewhat heavily loaded with full fuel, driver, three passengers and a couple hundred pounds of gear. I used to turn them on for only very challenging parts of trail, and engage both front and rear, but now tend to leave them on for all the low 4WD on rough road as the vehicle moves more steadily and surely forward and seems to do less damage to the road. Under those conditions, what is the biggest risk of breaking or damaging the lockers?

Shock load is the most common way, or in the case of the rear of its unlocked lots of torque input while having different traction levels and/or turning. As stated before in this thread, the limited slip gears tend to let go (probably partially due to the extra torque of the 4:1 case) when unlocked. If the locker is engaged its quite strong but large tires and sufficient brute force and ignorance can kill anything.

If you wheel generally with lots of traction and crawl on things it will probably survive for as long as you want it to with the rear locked.

FYI, you will find locking both seriously hampers your ability to turn, I wouldn't worry too much about locking the front unless you are getting wheel spin.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[AndyG]

I think some people think a locker is like shift on the fly 4wd drive . It ain't.

Easy does it .

 

[Johnnyairtime]

Hello folks....

New user here.
Found this thread searching for OEM Rubicon locker info.

This past weekend, I broke my second rubi (rear) locker.

First one; driving up to Big Bear on the pavement. As I was in the corners, it sounds like it was trying to engage and almost threw me off the road. Of course it was NOT engaged, nor did I accidentally flip the switch to engage it. Just so happens Big Bears local shop had a rear locker and set of chromo axles out of another Rubi. So they put them in and off I went.

Second one; this past weekend on a trip across country (mostly in dirt - limited 4wd terrain). From San Diego to Parker AZ. 400 miles in total. Pulled into a gas station, and *POP*. Heard it break again and knew right off what it was. Drove it home on pavement 150 miles. Every stop sign corner, it'd pop once or twice. I made it home.

I'd say, that I didn't have more than 2000 miles or so on the second 'used' locker. However, after reading the way these break... I might know what I did to cause the second issue. A couple times, leaving the parking lot at 5mph... I'd romp... romp.... romp.... the skinny pedal with a slight turn to the wheel to get the Jeep to rock back and forth (as if the Jeep had a cam - if that makes sense). Just screwing off at the time, but it seems after reading this thread that might have been the straw that broke the camels back. Who knows.

SO.... Blaine, and David Kishpaugh... should it be time I go to an Eaton E-Locker.... or ask David Kishpaugh what's the cost on a shipped rear OEM locker, and just be easier on the pedal when on the hard pack??? I run 37s, and still am on the OEM front Rubi locker. Or, would a Detroit locker be the way to go... or too tough on the rest of the drivetrain (ring and pinion, etc)?

HELP!!!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

37's are just too big for those Rubicon axles & lockers. They hold together with 35's but once you get to 37's or larger they are known to not hold up. My Rubicon lockers & axles are holding up fine with 35's with some occasionally very tough wheeling on our SoCal trails. I learned early on they're simply not up to 37's or I would have gone to that size tire years ago. For our trails a Detroit Locker is a great choice, so is the E-Locker but I don't believe the Rubicon's front Dana 44 is up to 37's at all and the rear is barely/kinda/sorta up to them with alloy shafts but the lockers? I don't believe they are.

 

[Johnnyairtime]

37's are just too big for those Rubicon axles & lockers. They hold together with 35's but once you get to 37's or larger they are known to not hold up. My Rubicon lockers & axles are holding up fine with 35's with some occasionally very tough wheeling on our SoCal trails. I learned early on they're simply not up to 37's or I would have gone to that size tire years ago. For our trails a Detroit Locker is a great choice, so is the E-Locker but I don't believe the Rubicon's front Dana 44 is up to 37's at all and the rear is barely/kinda/sorta up to them with alloy shafts but the lockers? I don't believe they are.

Thanks Jerry....
I understand I'm at my limit, with 37s.

I bought this LJ with 37s, and 46K miles. The previous owner, wheeled this thing like it was a buggy... so, not sure if he ever had an OEM locker issue or if when I bought it... it was original or not. I drove it home from Montana non stop... and let me tell you ... Mr. Toads wild ride has nothing on that 24hr trek. Wallowed out control arm bushings made it a blast (sarcastic)!! Kept me awake!!

Since I've lost the second OEM (rear) locker... I think it's best to go E-Locker. I like the ability to switch it on or off and save wear and tear. However, that's why I was asking also about the detroit locker and if anyone thought it'd beat part up when driven on the pavement (albeit... rare... as it's trailered to/from places like Moab, CO, etc).

I've got RCVs up front, and still on an OEM locker... so once it gives up, I'll for sure go e-locker then too. Just not ready to take such a large hit at the moment with two e-lockers and install costs.

... and sorry if I'm hijacking a thread. I tried to see if I can send a private message, but couldn't. Must be my limited membership.

 

[Johnnyairtime]

BTW, I'd go to D60s if I could afford it. As then, I'd be eager to go to 39s. But, it'd not fit in the garage anymore and I'd have to move it to the shop..... *big smile* So, I'm trying to curb my desires, wants, needs.... haha. Going down to 35s would ruin the reason I went with this purchase in the first place (it had AEV hiline fenders, hood, etc. Now, just the hood with JCR hiline so I don't have to worry about any future damage to unobtanium parts)

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I'm a big fan of the Detroit Locker, I had one on my previous TJ (loved it) but the E-Locker has a good reputation too. Shafts up front don't help it withstand larger tires, its the front axle's ball joints that don't hold up once you install anything bigger than 35's.

The Rubicon's front Dana 44 is a Dana 44 only between its u-joints. The rest of the axle is pure Dana 30. My rear axles run Revolution Gear 4340 shafts and the fronts are Superior Axle 4340 30 spline Evolution shafts with CTM u-joints yet I still limit the tire size to 35's. If it was my TJ I'd change those 37's out to 35's and stop worrying about breakages.

 

[Johnnyairtime]

................. If it was my TJ I'd change those 37's out to 35's and stop worrying about breakages.

Ya... as I get older, I realize that's the more responsible thing to do. Just not as fun. HAHA.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Ya... as I get older, I realize that's the more responsible thing to do. Just not as fun. HAHA.

It's more fun when you don't have breakages to contend with. And on the trail, it's a LOT less fun when an axle or locker breaks. I've had my share of breakages over my 23 years of TJ ownership including an axle shaft, locker, steering, etc. but not in the last 10 years since figuring out what works and what doesn't.

 

[Johnnyairtime]

It's more fun when you don't have breakages to contend with. And on the trail, it's a LOT less fun when an axle or locker breaks. I've had my share of breakages over my 23 years of TJ ownership including an axle, locker, steering, etc. but not in the last 10 years since figuring out what works and what doesn't.

I get it... but, you can only lead a camel to water....
And honestly, I like the challenges when something breaks. Not that I want it to break, but I enjoy the challenge of the repair... using the tools... the welder... the knowledge of those in the group...etc.

Ever broke a pitman arm?
We did on "top of the world" Moab. Not fun waiting for a replacement... nor was it fun for those aiding in the ordeal. But it made the day more adventurous... and, in the end it turned out okay and a great learning experience. Now I carry a spare.

Wow... now I'm really taking this thread the wrong way.

 

[g.hayduke]

I like the challenges when something breaks

Do the people you wheel with feel the same way when your stuff breaks?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Do the people you wheel with feel the same way when your stuff breaks?

Exactly., and that's the real problem. I've been on the trail too often when yahoos broke something they should have expected to break. Usually Dana 35 axle shafts with 35" tires or a locker. I was leading 15 Jeeps Saturday through canyons near Calico Ghost Town in CA when I learned two of them were running Dana 35 rear axles. Rather than have them break a shaft on a trail where it was likely, I insisted on winching them up in those spots to avoid an axle breakage which would have cost us a couple hour plus the time back at camp to replace the broken shaft.

It's not fair to others in the group when wheeling something that is on or over the edge.

 

[mrblaine]

Thanks Jerry....
I understand I'm at my limit, with 37s.

No, the limit was passed when the 35's went away. While you may slow down the outright breakage, you won't slow down the attrition due to just wearing stuff out. When you get tired of it and your wheeling buddies get tired of you being "that guy", maybe then it will change. Based on what I've read so far, I do have my doubts though. Locker choice doesn't matter, that isn't the weak link.

 

[mrblaine]

Exactly., and that's the real problem. I've been on the trail too often when yahoos broke something they should have expected to break. Usually Dana 35 axle shafts with 35" tires or a locker. I was leading 15 Jeeps Saturday through canyons near Calico Ghost Town in CA when I learned two of them were running Dana 35 rear axles. Rather than have them break a shaft on a trail where it was likely, I insisted on winching them up in those spots to avoid an axle breakage which would have cost us a couple hour plus the time back at camp to replace the broken shaft.

It's not fair to others in the group when wheeling something that is on or over the edge.

Matt was in a group out there a couple weeks ago. 3 hours in, they haven't completely got them through the gatekeeper. 3 broken rigs at the same time. Yay!

 

[toximus]

Ever broke a pitman arm?

Is this an OEM pitman arm?