Is my rear axle doomed?

[Assforkr]

Clickbait aside, I recently bought a TJ with a stock Dana 30/ regeared Dana 35. Had a shop take a look through the rear and they said one of the half shafts has begun showing signs of wear. I did what any sane man would rationally do, I loaded up the truck and drove it 2200 miles home where I could swap the half shafts myself.

In comes my friend who wheels his TJ telling me the Dana 35 isn't worth investing in and that after I replace the shafts the spider gear will go and I and the truck will burst into flames and roll into Valhalla. I keep telling him that my idea of "offroading" is climbing up to a remote camping spot or country roads and that the 33x10 is the only tire I'll ever put on the TJ. He persists.

Now the options are fairly simple.

-I can find a used Dana 44 for around 750 in my area and then save up to regear back to 4.10. (How big of a difference is 4.10 vs 3.73?).
-Alloy half shafts for the Dana 35.
-A shop the paranoid friend swears by has a rough estimate of over a grand for an 8.8 swap. Geared to my choice.

Obviously money is money and I'd like to keep enjoying having some so which route would you guys direct me towards?

 

[Westtown Willy]

funny you should ask this particular question, I just joined the forum today to toss my two cents into the very thread dedicated to answering that question. First thing I would do is take any one "friend's" (or any other single person's) advice with a grain of salt then proceed to educate yourself, read read read then read some more until you're comfortable you know why you're making the decision you're making.

This is a good place to start:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/should-i-upgrade-my-dana-35-axle.2925/

Edit: by the way for your described purposes it sounds like you're probably good keeping it stock anyway, upgrading to an S35 or swapping in a 44 or 8.8 may be throwing good money after bad unless you get a silly good deal on ready-to-go no-work-necessary axles with the correct gearing...

 

[Rob5589]

Rear "half shafts?" Did he mean the rear axle shaft? Did he actually pull them and take a look at the bearing surface or he is just FOS?

Your friend is also, misinformed. For your use the 35 as-is will be fine. If you start getting into hard off roading, the S35 kit is what is recommended.

 

[Alex01]

Seems like lots of people on this forum run the super 35 kit and have had great experiences with it. From what I understand a super 35 kit is stronger then a stock dana 44. The difference you feel in 3.73 to 4.10 will have a lot to do with your transmission, tire size. If you provide that people can help more. I found my 33's with 4.10 and nv3550 to be a very good combination before I went 35's and 4.88. From what you describe as your idea of a fun time a stock dana 35 will be fine IMO.

 

[Assforkr]

Rear "half shafts?" Did he mean the rear axle shaft? Did he actually pull them and take a look at the bearing surface or he is just FOS?

Your friend is also, misinformed. For your use the 35 as-is will be fine. If you start getting into hard off roading, the S35 kit is what is recommended.

Yeah, the rear axle shafts. 2 pieces so I called them half shafts by mistake.

The mechanic I left the car with before leaving for the 2000 mile trip home said the driver side shaft was showing wear signs and the driver rear bearing sounds funky. My friend is just doing a really good job making me paranoid about the shaft walking out at highway speeds.

 

[Assforkr]

Seems like lots of people on this forum run the super 35 kit and have had great experiences with it. From what I understand a super 35 kit is stronger then a stock dana 44. The difference you feel in 3.73 to 4.10 will have a lot to do with your transmission, tire size. If you provide that people can help more. I found my 33's with 4.10 and nv3550 to be a very good combination before I went 35's and 4.88. From what you describe as your idea of a fun time a stock dana 35 will be fine IMO.

33 x 10.5 tires. 5 speed manual with a 4.0. I expect that's the way it'll stay, I'm a hobby fabricator so the mods will be either superficial or I'll start making aluminium cargo racks. Not adding major weight.

I just located a Dana 44 with 3.53 gears drum to drum for 600. If shafts, bearings and seals go for around 350-450 it might be worth looking at.

 

[Assforkr]

Bump for encouragement to buy replacement 35 shafts and stay with what I got as long at the gear looks good and there are no teeth chipped.

 

[Drizit]

So I'm the first guy to tell people not to polish that turd. However for your use it doesn't need polishing. Get yourself 2 sets of junkyard shafts and a set of spider gears (make sure the spiders match your carrier, there are more than one kind) replace the worn shaft with a used stocker and a new bearing. Keep the second set in the jeep with the spiders and some gear oil when you wheel just in case. Sometimes the 35 just let's go for no reason but if you have the parts it's an hour job to fix.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[Westtown Willy]

So I'm the first guy to tell people not to polish that turd

not counting the other million people that repeat that tired old nonsense, yes you are the first, congratulations!

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

 

[Assforkr]

So I'm the first guy to tell people not to polish that turd. However for your use it doesn't need polishing. Get yourself 2 sets of junkyard shafts and a set of spider gears (make sure the spiders match your carrier, there are more than one kind) replace the worn shaft with a used stocker and a new bearing. Keep the second set in the jeep with the spiders and some gear oil when you wheel just in case. Sometimes the 35 just let's go for no reason but if you have the parts it's an hour job to fix.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

You had me until the last statement. If the 35 sometimes lets go for no reason, and a 35 is a c clip axle. Wouldn’t the catastrophic results of just letting go for no reason be worth the upgrade of alloy shafts if not a 44 axle altogether?

 

[balfred]

not counting the other million people that repeat that tired old nonsense, yes you are the first, congratulations!

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

It is a turd compared to the other options in stock form if you are trying to run big tires. If you do the S35 kit then it is stronger, much stronger, but it is then as strong as it can be. You could then try to argue that it is better than a 44 or 8.8 but you would be arguing against them in stock form because as soon as either of them are upgraded the 35, although strong, is again the weakest in the bunch

Who knows how much though, it's all about what happens on the trail and I have no experience pushing the limits of all three

 

[Westtown Willy]

It is a turd compared to the other options in stock form if you are trying to run big tires.

Yes, there is no question the stock Dana 35 is weaker than the Dana 44 or 8.8.

If you do the S35 kit then it is stronger, much stronger, but it is then as strong as it can be. You could then try to argue that it is better than a 44 or 8.8 but you would be arguing against them in stock form because as soon as either of them are upgraded the 35, although strong, is again the weakest in the bunch

I’m not trying to argue anything of the sort, just pointing out that the can’t polish a turd statement that reverberates around the internet faster than what Kim Kardashian had for breakfast is an inherently flawed piece of logic.

Taken at face value it stands for the proposition that you cannot improve the strength/performance of the (admittedly) weak stock Dana 35. But of course we all know you can! If people took the time to look past all the nonsense & see the myriad evidence that the S35 (the ‘polished turd’ in our example) performs beautifully for countless people (I, along with people I’ve wheeled with among them) maybe that knee jerk comment wouldn’t be made with the same regularity. The incidents of blown S35s (be it shafts, rings, pinions or bending of the stock differential housing & tubes it all sits in) are extremely small; I’ve searched high & low for statistics of which none exist but at least from an anecdotal evidence standpoint the failure rates are probably comparable to failures of the 44 from what I’ve seen.

I don’t think anyone argues that the Dana 35 can somehow leapfrog over the 44 or any other axle for that matter when you ‘Super’ it, rather, given that the overwhelming majority of TJs that rolled off the assembly line came with the 35 there is another viable option to strengthen it to the point where it can be competently & confidently wheeled without failure that doesn’t include a visit to the junkyard or building a brand new one online…

Who knows how much though, it's all about what happens on the trail and I have no experience pushing the limits of all three

well, as related to the S35, I do, & since that's the only rear axle under my TJ that's all that's relevant to me. Strength, size, thickness, diameter, & all the other measures that go into the components of these rears aside, what's the really important question? Can you drive the thing where you want to drive it. Given that I can and do on a regular basis I'd say my turd polished up real nice

 

[Rob5589]

Look at it this way, anything can and will break. Will the 35 break before the 44? Possibly. Will the S35 be stronger than a stock 44? Yes. Or you can add some 1541H shafts, which is what is recommended by @mrblaine over the 4340 due to the bearing riding on the axle, for added strength over stock shafts. Those with a locker or Truetrac, depending on your foreseen usage, will hold up unless you get stupid with the go pedal.
If you want something that has a high likelihood of survival under nearly any condition, build a Dana 60 with Detroit locker and 35 spline shafts.

 

[Drizit]

build a Dana 60 with Detroit locker and 35 spline shafts.

You can do 40 spline on the 14 bolt now or a Dana 80 if you want to go full retard

What I was getting at is anything could fail suddenly and unexpectedly. Was damage done at some other point that didn't catastrophically fail until then? Possibly, probably even. It's impossible to say. I'd say for your use though a stock axle will probably hold up just fine and as long as you have cheap spares and know how to fix it then you are good. However if you'd rather spend the money a S35 kit will probably hold up nicely. Don't however go part way with shafts and no locker as the stock spiders and carrier become the weak point.

Or spend some more on a built 8.8 or 44, probably unnecessary for your usage but going to a built 44 that doesn't have c clips is always nice. Only you can decide what the best solution is for you. I'm however a fan of go the cheapest way that will probably work and then if it doesn't go all the way.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[balfred]

You can do 40 spline on the 14 bolt now or a Dana 80 if you want to go full retard

 

[Drizit]

But it's so much fun

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[Westtown Willy]

You can do 40 spline on the 14 bolt now or a Dana 80 if you want to go full retard

notwithstanding everything I've said above about the S35, I'd be open to something like this if/when it implodes; the failure would have to be catastrophic to the rear warranting either a complete rebuild or swap. I'm not one of those guys that's trying to break stuff just so I have a good excuse to build bigger but if it happens it happens, I'll acknowledge it & move on to something bigger...

Though I'd have to find the strongest rear I could put under there that wouldn't require additional lift/bigger tires because I can't go any taller unless I want to built a new garage too , probably something like a Currie Dana 44 with the biggest chromoly shafts they'll stuff in there

 

[sgtjdgelinas]

You had me until the last statement. If the 35 sometimes lets go for no reason, and a 35 is a c clip axle. Wouldn’t the catastrophic results of just letting go for no reason be worth the upgrade of alloy shafts if not a 44 axle altogether?

I might be wrong, but I believe doing a disc brake conversion will keep the axle from flying out if the c-clip happens to fail in a Dana 35. And it's a bolt on upgrade from a grand Cherokee.

 

[Drizit]

I might be wrong, but I believe doing a disc brake conversion will keep the axle from flying out if the c-clip happens to fail in a Dana 35. And it's a bolt on upgrade from a grand Cherokee.

I'm not familiar with this mod but if it's just putting disks on then yes it should keep the wheel in but you would probably trash at least the pads and rotor if you went any distance like that. There may be a c clip eliminator kit available, again not sure but I know one exists for the 8.8 so maby.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[Assforkr]

So options ave presented themselves. 750 bucks for an 8.8 with disc brakes and the bracketry has already been welded up. Includes the yoke adapter. Gearing is optimal and I'm told the pinion angle during the welding was set to stock ride height. Question is, will I need adjustable control arms and can I use the stock driveshaft with my 2" lift.

The alternative is keeping the Dana 35 and paying 400 for shafts and 200 for the disc brake components and then hope the ring gear is in good condition and doesn't implode.

Whatcha think?