What is on the seal is not going to matter...it's the outboard side of the cap that will do the most.
Jeep 4.0 rear main seal thoughts
- Thread starter Jms76
- Start date
Cracked open the replacement engine box, couple of positives compared to the original engine purchases:
1. Stated remanufactured in the USA
2. Better paint job, more glossy complete compared to other which was matte and not as heavily coated.
3. Toque verification marks present. Prior engine did not.
4. Much heavier coat of oil on the engine and parts. Both were in a VCI bag.
5. Mahle gasket kit and Melling oil pump, last engine had unknown name gasket kit, and maybe a melling oil pump - but think
It may have been a different brand. Also included timing chain rubber damper.
6. Additional documentation on priming oil system, break-in, etc.
7. And I’m not sure if I like or not, but in the documentation they stated engine block may contain stop leak tabs for core plugs, etc. don’t be alarmed with antifreeze discoloration. I know the other engine did not have these as I’ve drained the new coolant I put in last year into clear containers, looks perfect. I did find two stop leak tabs when I looked into the water pump opening. 3rd pic.
1. Stated remanufactured in the USA
2. Better paint job, more glossy complete compared to other which was matte and not as heavily coated.
3. Toque verification marks present. Prior engine did not.
4. Much heavier coat of oil on the engine and parts. Both were in a VCI bag.
5. Mahle gasket kit and Melling oil pump, last engine had unknown name gasket kit, and maybe a melling oil pump - but think
It may have been a different brand. Also included timing chain rubber damper.
6. Additional documentation on priming oil system, break-in, etc.
7. And I’m not sure if I like or not, but in the documentation they stated engine block may contain stop leak tabs for core plugs, etc. don’t be alarmed with antifreeze discoloration. I know the other engine did not have these as I’ve drained the new coolant I put in last year into clear containers, looks perfect. I did find two stop leak tabs when I looked into the water pump opening. 3rd pic.
My bad, sometimes i need time to subconsciously digest what i have read to fully understand it. I see that what you wrote went completely over my head, and my response did not address your concern.
Anaerobic will definitely not cure, and applying little of rtv on rubber should not have negative effect. Worst case it wont seal, best case it will.
Umm... if it leaks past the seal lip, your green marked area is irrelevant, it will have no effect on anything.
I must be missing something in the pictures. Does the lip on the cap beyond the seal (area in green) not mate to a corresponding machined surface on the block?
Lip of the seal is THE SEAL, past it is oil dripping down the transmission inspection plate
Got engine ready to pull. Also installed new rear main seal on the old engine before I put bearing cap back on. Had a felpro seal I was going to test out before using the Mopar as practice.
Anyhow, the seal went in real smooth and nice even with the RTV that I had to remove, still went in very well. I’m confident I’d be able to install if I had to. Just press, and continue to follow around the crank. Rolls in very nice.
Lastly, one thing that I’d like to point out when unbolting the bell housing from engine. There are two reverse torx bolts on the top of the bell housing. They are very difficult to get at. Last time I did the engine change, unbolted the engine from the body mounts and took tension off the lift which allowed the engine to drop providing more clearance to get the ratchet and socket in from the top side.
Today, used a 10mm ratcheting box wrench with a flex head. Worked great and did not have to drop engine down. The 10mm fits great on the reverse torx socket head. So it is now completely unbolted ready to lift out.
Anyhow, the seal went in real smooth and nice even with the RTV that I had to remove, still went in very well. I’m confident I’d be able to install if I had to. Just press, and continue to follow around the crank. Rolls in very nice.
Lastly, one thing that I’d like to point out when unbolting the bell housing from engine. There are two reverse torx bolts on the top of the bell housing. They are very difficult to get at. Last time I did the engine change, unbolted the engine from the body mounts and took tension off the lift which allowed the engine to drop providing more clearance to get the ratchet and socket in from the top side.
Today, used a 10mm ratcheting box wrench with a flex head. Worked great and did not have to drop engine down. The 10mm fits great on the reverse torx socket head. So it is now completely unbolted ready to lift out.
Couple of follow-up items so far.
Decided not to remove and reseal anything on replacement engine. After inspecting some of the problem areas with the previous engine, found this engine may have had issues resolved. The only thing I did was use a syringe to inject some oil inti the crank RMS area to super lubricate and attempt to avoid any dry metal on rubber contact on start-up.
The old engine had gray RTV on the exposed part of the RMS. This one has a reddish brown sealer.
This engine also has visible sealer on the #11 head bolt end and sensor plug in head.
Two other points, the Mahle oil pan seal is very similar to the Permatex, but the Mahle seal fits much better into the groove in the main bearing cap. The Mahle fits snug in the groove, the Permatex fit was a little too wide for the groove and seemed to fit more over than on top and set in groove.
It is possible that it was related to the bearing cap on the last engine had a smaller groove. I’m sure there is some casting/machining variation.
Lastly, don’t forget to swap over the main bearing girdle. This is easy to leave on the old engine.
Decided not to remove and reseal anything on replacement engine. After inspecting some of the problem areas with the previous engine, found this engine may have had issues resolved. The only thing I did was use a syringe to inject some oil inti the crank RMS area to super lubricate and attempt to avoid any dry metal on rubber contact on start-up.
The old engine had gray RTV on the exposed part of the RMS. This one has a reddish brown sealer.
This engine also has visible sealer on the #11 head bolt end and sensor plug in head.
Two other points, the Mahle oil pan seal is very similar to the Permatex, but the Mahle seal fits much better into the groove in the main bearing cap. The Mahle fits snug in the groove, the Permatex fit was a little too wide for the groove and seemed to fit more over than on top and set in groove.
It is possible that it was related to the bearing cap on the last engine had a smaller groove. I’m sure there is some casting/machining variation.
Lastly, don’t forget to swap over the main bearing girdle. This is easy to leave on the old engine.
We’ll got new engine installed, prelubed engine with drill for a bit, and fired up and did the 20 min break-in. Running conventional 10W-30 pennzoil.
All seems well except what I think is noisy lifters. Very noticeable ticking at idle and increase with rpm. This is after the break-in with engine at op temp.
My other engine did not make this much noise at all, was much quieter. I tried to put my ear with screwdriver to multiple parts of the engine and covers, really hard to tell where it comes from. Even side is hard to really determine.
Not and exhaust leak, and pulled one injector at a time. Other than engine stumble a bit, no charge in noise.
The instructions with this engine stated valves may need adjusted after running. They set the valves at factory at 0 lash then 1 clockwise rotation.
I’ve not messed with the valves or really ever messed with setting valves on hydraulic lifters.
Would like to get some thoughts on how to proceed.
All seems well except what I think is noisy lifters. Very noticeable ticking at idle and increase with rpm. This is after the break-in with engine at op temp.
My other engine did not make this much noise at all, was much quieter. I tried to put my ear with screwdriver to multiple parts of the engine and covers, really hard to tell where it comes from. Even side is hard to really determine.
Not and exhaust leak, and pulled one injector at a time. Other than engine stumble a bit, no charge in noise.
The instructions with this engine stated valves may need adjusted after running. They set the valves at factory at 0 lash then 1 clockwise rotation.
I’ve not messed with the valves or really ever messed with setting valves on hydraulic lifters.
Would like to get some thoughts on how to proceed.
Last edited:
Before adjusting anything roll the engine over by hand and check lash by turning each pushrod with your fingers to see if there is any noticeable difference between them.
To be blunt this is not a adjustable valve system, See FSM instructions on rocker install. LOL
INSTALLATION
NOTE: This procedure can be done with the engine
in or out of the vehicle.
(1) Lubricate the ball ends of the push rods with
Mopart Engine Oil Supplement, or equivalent and
install push rods in their original locations. Ensure
that the bottom end of each push rod is centered in
the tappet plunger cap seat.
(2) Using
Mopart
Engine
Oil
Supplement,
or
equivalent, lubricate the area of the rocker arm that
the pivot contacts. Install rocker arms, pivots and
bridge above each cylinder in their originally position
(Fig. 24).
(3) Loosely install the capscrews through each
bridge.
(4) At each bridge, tighten the capscrews alter
nately,
one turn at a time, to avoid damaging the
bridge. Tighten the capscrews to 28 N·m (21 ft. lbs.)
torque.
(5) Install the engine cylinder head cover (Refer to
9 - ENGINE/CYLINDER HEAD/CYLINDER HEAD
After listening to the videos, any idea what it may be? I know they valve train is not adjustable, but not sure what else it would be. Do you think it needs to be checked or left as is?
Pulled the valve cover. Everything was tight, nothing loose. All rods and rockers had similar play movement, nothing excessive while rotating engine. All clicked out at 21 ft-lbs. Sent all videos and info to LQK/ATK this weekend. Spoke to one guy, discussed a few things that I checked, but was at a loss. Waiting to hear back from another technical rep.
Took another video with valve cover off and running.
Any insight or feedback would be helpful. It is not injector noise or an exhaust leak. Also, with mechanic stethoscope, seems to be coming from back of engine, 5th or 6th cylinder, passenger side, more top end noise.
Btw, this was a friggin mess.
Took another video with valve cover off and running.
Any insight or feedback would be helpful. It is not injector noise or an exhaust leak. Also, with mechanic stethoscope, seems to be coming from back of engine, 5th or 6th cylinder, passenger side, more top end noise.
Btw, this was a friggin mess.
I took a look a look and saw no video related. Maybe missing something.
Think I found the issue. Not sure how this happened unless valve retainer was incorrect, out of spec, or failed somehow.
Was sent a replacement cylinder head. Installed it along with new lifters. Sounds great in idle. Only issue is that between 12-1400 rpm get a tapping sound. Quite at idle and no noise past 1500 rpm or so.
Happens in gear, in idle. Clutch in or out, and engine cold or at op temp.
Running conventional 10w-30 pennzoil, intake gasket new, manifold less that 6K miles (checked extensively no exhaust leaks) and swapped injectors around to see if it followed.
Valve train has been checked, all tight, all firm.
With stethoscope, determined noise was coming from #5 exhaust pipe just after exiting head. There is no tapping at idle, just in the 1200 range then goes away.
See video.
Any thoughts? I’m at a loss at this point.
Happens in gear, in idle. Clutch in or out, and engine cold or at op temp.
Running conventional 10w-30 pennzoil, intake gasket new, manifold less that 6K miles (checked extensively no exhaust leaks) and swapped injectors around to see if it followed.
Valve train has been checked, all tight, all firm.
With stethoscope, determined noise was coming from #5 exhaust pipe just after exiting head. There is no tapping at idle, just in the 1200 range then goes away.
See video.
Any thoughts? I’m at a loss at this point.