Looking at a 2002 SE, how bad is this rust?

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Gammalance

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Hello! I've been looking around the forum for what to look for with rust and everything, but I'm still not sure that I can judge how bad rust is. I would really appreciate your thoughts on this.
Now that it's blowing the pictures up as I post them, I don't think it looks great, but again I'm not really sure. If you could, I'd really appreciate it if you could point out what to look for in other jeeps that I'm checking out, or areas to check out that aren't in the pictures.
Just as a note, I haven't seen this jeep in person yet, these are pictures posted online.

Thanks very much!
Jeep rust 1.jpg
jeep rust 2.jpg
jeep rust 3.jpg
jeep rust 4.jpg
jeep rust 5.jpg
rust 6.jpg

rust 7.jpg
rust 8.jpg


rust 7.jpg
 
Yikes that looks bad. I would pass that up because mine was only rust in one area and I’ve been working for weeks to get it fixed


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Run.

The difference between surface rust and whats really bad is not a concrete line when it comes to TJ's. Typically what you're really worried about is internal frame rot. The frames rot from the inside out so figuring out what is bad and what is good is sometimes difficult. The most tried and true method to discerning whether or not a frame is solid is sticking your finger inside the round hole by the rear control arm mount (just in front of the rear tire on the frame). If you feel much else besides smooth metal, don't buy the Jeep. Frames can be deceiving. The outside of the frame may have no rust while the inside is rotted out. Typically, if you see next to any rust on the outside of the frame then the inside is rotted. And don't fall for someone telling you the frame is good. Most people have no idea what constitutes a solid frame because they are not aware that they rot on the inside.


Here is what internal frame rot means. This is actually my old frame after it was cut in half to expose what was going on inside. You can see how the inside of the frames rot out in this photo.

FullSizeRender.jpg
 
Gammalance said:
Got it! So in the future, what should I look for to tell the difference between 'surface rust' and what's really bad?
Click to expand...

a copy of the photos you posted are a great reminder :thumbup:.

Seriously, it's usually pretty obvious, the flaking you see in those photos shows that the rust has dug in deep as opposed to what people call 'surface rust' which is, on the surface, not great either but it's easily treated. When you see scaling and cracks in the frame you know it's shot. The part that's even worse is what lies underneath & out of sight (inside the frame), for whatever you can see on the outside you can usually assume it's even worse on the inside. Inspecting frames starts with the visual, sometimes you can see enough walking towards a TJ in a parking lot to know you wouldn't want anything to do with it. Other times the exterior looks good (either because it is good, someone made it look good, or while the outside is actually good there's death inside). For those you need to do more than look, it starts with looking closely, looking inside the frame holes as far as you can see, feeling in there with your finger for chips/chunks, & better yet looking with an endoscopic camera hooked to your phone. Also, more of a physical exam with a hammer and screw driver can reveal a lot, though some people might object to you whacking their frame with a hammer - I'd say if you're seriously considering buying a particular TJ then the seller is just gonna have to suck it up & let that happen otherwise the sale may fall through. All in all it's not hard to identify a good frame vs. a bad one, & most of them in areas outside the south and west will have some degree of roughness to them, trick is to find one that's either already in great shape or one that can be treated & made to last indefinitely. Just use common sense. Posting pictures here is also highly recommended.
 
I WOULD NOT touch that thing. The frame is rotted and large sections will need to be cut out and replaced.

Just my opinion of course, but I would stay far away from that one. There are far better TJs to be had.
 
The reason to skip it at almost any price is that they sprayed it with some sort of gooey stuff that will make it rust faster and be harder to clean up. When I see that at a used car dealer they are on my never stop there again list.
 
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xackley said:
The reason to skip it at almost any price is that they sprayed it with some sort of gooey stuff that will make it rust faster and be harder to clean up. When I see that at a used car dealer they are on my never stop there again list.
Click to expand...
I've always just used a flat black rattle can paint after a good scuffing with a 3m scuff pad. If there's any surface rust at all in an area, I'll sand it away lightly with 320, and self etch it then rattle can flat black over that. The frame usually will get this done once a year after a good pressure washing. I've not really ever understood the use of a rubberized undercoat because it always is a pain to deal with anyway... aside from it being porous as all hell, and trapping water up close to the metal.
 
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I have the unpopular opinion that beating with a hammer is useless.

Firstly, it is not a concrete way to learn anything. You could hit my old frame in every single place besides one small area in the front and you wouldn't break through. Most frames that are rotting away aren't bad enough to break with a hammer. Hitting the frame with a hammer may give you a false sense of security.

Secondly, if the person is knowingly selling you a bad frame, then they won't let you hit it anyways. So you aren't going to learn anything in this scenario either.

Thirdly, you are going to put off honest potential sellers who don't understand frame rot. I wouldn't let anyone hit my frame with a hammer and I understand frame rot. To those who don't understand, it just looks like you are beating their Jeep for no reason.

There are much better ways to check a frame out than hitting it with a hammer. A visual inspection of the outside and feeling the inside of the frame will give you a very good idea of what condition the frame is in. You can literally reach the worst spot for internal rust with your finger. If that spot is good and the rest of the Jeep is rust free then you can be fairly certain the frame is fine.

I would use these quick checks when looking at a frame:

If the frame is full of dirt up to the holes, don't buy it.
If the outside of the frame has rust surrounding the holes, don't buy it.
If you can pull chunks of rust from the inside of the frame, don't buy it.
If the body of the Jeep has significant rust, don't buy it.
 
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jodomcfrodo said:
I have the unpopular opinion that beating with a hammer is useless.

Firstly, it is not a concrete way to learn anything. You could hit my old frame in every single place besides one small area in the front and you wouldn't break through. Most frames that are rotting away aren't bad enough to break with a hammer. Hitting the frame with a hammer may give you a false sense of security.

Secondly, if the person is knowingly selling you a bad frame, then they won't let you hit it anyways. So you aren't going to learn anything in this scenario either.

Thirdly, you are going to put off honest potential sellers who don't understand frame rot. I wouldn't let anyone hit my frame with a hammer and I understand frame rot. To those who don't understand, it just looks like you are beating their Jeep for no reason.

There are much better ways to check a frame out than hitting it with a hammer. A visual inspection of the outside and feeling the inside of the frame will give you a very good idea of what condition the frame is in. You can literally reach the worst spot for internal rust with your finger. If that spot is good and the rest of the Jeep is rust free then you can be fairly certain the frame is fine.

I would use these quick checks when looking at a frame:

If the frame is full of dirt up to the holes, don't buy it.
If the outside of the frame has rust surrounding the holes, don't buy it.
If you can pull chunks of rust from the inside of the frame, don't buy it.
If the body of the Jeep has significant rust, don't buy it.
Click to expand...

You are 100% Correct. Knowing what you are looking at is more important than just wacking away.

I should gave more information in my last comment of the places to look at.

Thanks for the words!
 
A guy showed me he bought rubber plugs to plug those holes. He said he blew them out good and then plugged them. Is this a wise idea?
 
mgroeger said:
A guy showed me he bought rubber plugs to plug those holes. He said he blew them out good and then plugged them. Is this a wise idea?
Click to expand...

Only if you take them out and clean the frame regularly. If you never take them out, the only thing they can do is keep stuff in the frame. My philosophy is to keep as much junk out of the frame as possible but wash it out regularly because you can't prevent everything from getting in.
 
I use the rubber plugs in the winter to (try) and prevent salt from getting in. During the summer, I remove the plugs. But I also have drain holes in my frame.
 
Hell that frame doesn't look that bad for where I live. LOL
Northern Ohio

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