Looking for suggestions on new steering

John Middleton

John Middleton

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
145
Location
Missouri, United States
2003 RubiconFreshly installed 31/2” Metalcloak short arm/long reach lift. Took it to alibnment shop (recommended by 4WD place as who they use).
New ball joints, new tie rod system, & $2K later it has a moment of play which is unsettling and handling worse than before lift.
The tie rod system is a Rough Country (not my choice) designed for a Dodge truck & very beefy. However, the steering link is attached to the drag link at the passenger tie rod end and not further inboard to driver’s side as OEM. Shop mgr says it is a better design but another shop told me that steering link & track bar need to attach to their anchors at same area & stay parallel. I’m concerned this is my issue. They also wanted a dropped pitman arm which I rejected.
Looking for suggestions?

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Good grief. Makes me sick. If it were a better design it would drive right. Irks me that the average guy (or me, below average) can rebuild his steering in his garage and align it with a tape measure and get better results than a pro shop. Something is wrong with that.

First, the V8 Cherokee ZJ components bolt right on- cost far less, and nothing gets weird.

Your clamping collar at the pitman end of you drag link is rubbing the track bar.


You need to rethink all this in my opinion- trusting a shop to select parts for these is just a bad gamble-

First if it is lifted you to make sure you still have sufficient caster.

You need 1/8 of toe in.

load range c tires with 26 psi

If the sway bar links are Rough Country they will fail in 6 months, get some with no ball socket joint or JKS.

I would throw that steering away and get Moog ZJ components, notice your track bar and drag link are way too divergent - they need to be close to parallel to follow the same arc.

Your track bar has a heim joint at the frame and usually those have urethane at the axle- I like a clevite bushing at the axle and a the heim needs to be watched.

Ask @SamwiseGamJeep or @John Cooper how my 03 Rubicon drives, and it is in no way special.
 
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Whoever recommended that RC steering kludge should be shot. Its terrible geometry is notorious for causing the steering issues you're experiencing.

At least you resisted the dropped Pitman arm which would have just made it worse.

The fix, I'm sorry to say, is to restore the steering back to the inverted-Y design it originally came with that was introduced in 1997 with the TJ. It's a superb geometry that works very well with lot of different lift heights and axle designs. That doesn't mean the skinny OE factory steering components get reinstalled, they get replaced by heavy duty replacements like from Currie. That will eliminate the steering issues. It does mean you also need replacement steering knuckles that were modified to install the RC kludge.

There's really no way to make what they installed steer well, that design is simply unworkable. It might look tough and bitchin' enough to some to keep and just live with the shitty steering but I sure would not.

Personally I'd raise hell with whoever recommended and installed it. They should have known better.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
Whoever recommended that RC steering kludge should be shot. Its terrible geometry is notorious for causing the steering issues you're experiencing.

At least you resisted the dropped Pitman arm which would have just made it worse.

The fix, I'm sorry to say, is to restore the steering type back to the inverted-Y design that was introduced in 1997 with TJ. It's a superb geometry that works very well with lot of different lift heights and axle designs. That doesn't mean the skinny OE factory steering components get reinstalled, they get replaced by heavy duty replacements like from Currie. That will eliminate the steering issues. It does mean you also need replacement steering knuckles that were modified to install the RC kludge.

There's really no way to make what they installed steer well, that design is simply unworkable. It might look tough and bitchin' enough to some to keep and just live with the shitty steering but I sure would not.

Personally I'd raise hell with whoever recommended and installed it. They should have known better.
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My point exactly. I’m not sure exactly why- I don’t know if it is because shops are generalists, or if TJs are so far out of production, or the wide array of product choices- but the amount of misinformation on these seems to be limitless. A coil spring/ pan hard bar front end is not that unusual- maybe the truth is there are just too many bad choices and only a few good choices so the odds play in. More ugly girls and it’s closing time.

I’m in construction, and we see the same thing- people simply don’t know what they are doing. The shortage of technical knowledge in the trades is at a critical level.
 
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AndyG said:
Good grief. Makes me sick. If it were a better design it would drive right. Irks me that the average guy can rebuild his steering in his garage and align it with a tape measure and get better results than a pro shop. Something is wrong with that.

First, the V8 Cherokee ZJ components bolt right on- cost far less, and nothing gets weird.

Your clamping collar at the pitman end of you drag link is rubbing the track bar.


You need to rethink all this in my opinion- trusting a shop to select parts for these is just a bad gamble-

First if it is lifted you to make sure you still have sufficient caster.

You need 1/8 of toe in.

load range c tires with 26 psi

If the sway bar links are Rough Country they will fail in 6 months, get some with no ball socket joint or JKS.

I would throw that steering away and get Moog ZJ components, notice your track bar and drag link are way too divergent - they need to be close to parallel to follow the same arc.

Your track bar has a heim joint at the frame and usually those have urethane at the axle- I like a clevite bushing at the axle and a the heim needs to be watched.

Ask @SamwiseGamJeep or @John Cooper how my 03 Rubicon drives.
Click to expand...
Listen to @AndyG and @Jerry Bransford they both know of what they speak!!!!!! Andy's Rubi is a smooth riding Jeep that handles nicely, it looks good to. (Am I closer to getting the tires now :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: ) if Jerry ever gets moved over this way, maybe just maybe I can meet him also!!!!!
 
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2003 Rubicon. Freshly installed 31/2” Metalcloak short arm/long reach lift. Took it to alignment shop (recommended by 4WD place as who they use).
New ball joints, new tie rod system, & $2K later it has a moment of play which is unsettling and handling worse than before lift.
The tie rod system is a Rough Country (not my choice) designed for a Dodge truck & very beefy. However, the steering link is attached to the drag link at the passenger tie rod end and not further inboard to driver’s side as OEM. Shop mgr says it is a better design but another shop told me that steering link & track bar need to attach to their anchors at same area & stay parallel. I’m concerned this is my issue.
Looking for suggestions?
 
Yep, the trac bar and drag link need to be parallel from mounting point to mounting point. Can’t believe they did that. I’d be pissed
 
John Cooper said:
Listen to @AndyG and @Jerry Bransford they both know of what they speak!!!!!! Andy's Rubi is a smooth riding Jeep that handles nicely, it looks good to. (Am I closer to getting the tires now :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: ) if Jerry ever gets moved over this way, maybe just maybe I can meet him also!!!!!
Click to expand...
He had to throw in it looks good. Watch him boys, he is smooth!
 
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John Middleton said:
2003 Rubicon. Freshly installed 31/2” Metalcloak short arm/long reach lift. Took it to alignment shop (recommended by 4WD place as who they use).
New ball joints, new tie rod system, & $2K later it has a moment of play which is unsettling and handling worse than before lift.
Click to expand...
You have two issues you are fighting. The first is some bump steer from them using the OEM mounting points in a different configuration than stock. The second is that crap inverted T steering set up. It is not better, it will never be better and even on the Dodge truck it came on stock, is not good. And, that Dodge is far lower, the links are much closer to parallel and it still sucks. Once you move higher in lift, it just gets worse. The input from the draglink rolls the tie rod up and down before it moves the knuckles which is some of the play you are experiencing. The bump steer is just making that worse. You don't have to take anyone's word for that and you should educate yourself some for the discussion with the shop about taking that pile of mechanical poo back.

Have someone hop behind the wheel, start it up and then turn the steering wheel side to side several inches in a fairly quick manner. You watch the linkage and you'll see the problem. That is part of the conversation you get to have with the shop.
John Middleton said:
The tie rod system is a Rough Country (not my choice) designed for a Dodge truck & very beefy. However, the steering link is attached to the drag link at the passenger tie rod end and not further inboard to driver’s side as OEM. Shop mgr says it is a better design but another shop told me that steering link & track bar need to attach to their anchors at same area & stay parallel. I’m concerned this is my issue.
Looking for suggestions?
Click to expand...
The OEM is not parallel but it not the same length either. What matters is they figured out how to make it work with minimal play and minimal bump steer.
 
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Thanks all for your input! Great info for a chat with the alignment shop. I know to avoid Rough Country But was out of town & discussed new steering linkage on phone as well as adjustable ball joints to correct some camber (not caster) issues which were probably non issues as well.
Sorry about the double post & best place to buy Correct link?
 
John Middleton said:
Thanks all for your input! Great info for a chat with the alignment shop. I know to avoid Rough Country But was out of town & discussed new steering linkage on phone as well as adjustable ball joints to correct some camber (not caster) issues which were probably non issues as well.
Sorry about the double post & best place to buy Correct link?
Click to expand...
Your rig looks like it could use a ZJ Tie Rod Conversion.

Here’s a link to the post that includes everything you need.

Thread 'ZJ Tie Rod Conversion'
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/zj-tie-rod-conversion.2373/
 
John Middleton said:
Also, anyone have experience with Rubicon Express steering linkage?
Click to expand...
Yes I had their system for a while but it won't work for the same reason the Currie steering system I recommended above won't work until the steering knuckles are replaced. The jarheads who installed your RC steering kit drilled your steering knuckles out so an inverted-Y steering system like RE's and Currie's can't be bolted on.
 
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What handling problems do you have? Is the track bar in stock location? I have the Rugged Ridge version of that steering and have no issues other than they are lower than the stock type.
 
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