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If you can't come up with a half a billion, go sit in the corner and dream some more.

How much of that is in machinery capital vs regulatory stuff to get them street legal?

You could get around the machine expense by doing what most automakers do anyway and sourcing everything from companies already making them, only also sourcing the powertrain (maybe a GM crate powertrain or a Cummins/allison type combo). You'd end up with a TJ that cost more than a JL, but if I've learned anything from the niche vehicle market it's that there's a bigger supply of idiots with money that most of us realize and they love spending it on bullshit.
 
How much of that is in machinery capital vs regulatory stuff to get them street legal?

You could get around the machine expense by doing what most automakers do anyway and sourcing everything from companies already making them, only also sourcing the powertrain (maybe a GM crate powertrain or a Cummins/allison type combo). You'd end up with a TJ that cost more than a JL, but if I've learned anything from the niche vehicle market it's that there's a bigger supply of idiots with money that most of us realize and they love spending it on bullshit.
You can try the sourcing but at some point, you'll need to bring manufacturing in house for control and cost. If you want to know what fulfilling a niche market does to the end product cost without economies of scale, look at the cost of the stuff from Desert Power Wagons. Sadly, most won't want the similar thing in a modern TJ because they don't run carbureted motors and manual chokes.
 
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I grew up driving basic vehicles. Only luxury cars had "power-power", thus I feel anything with power windows and all the rest - never mind the electronics - is a luxury vehicle and my money is best spent elsewhere. Being forced to buy this crap grinds my gears as well. I gave fairly serious consideration to buying a new JL "Willys Edition" in "Sarge Green", and was investigating the "do dah" that bypasses the stupid ESS - which is, BTW, very poorly designed - an entire career in electronics and battery systems taught me that you avoid paralleling batteries whenever possible and NEVER, EVER parallel batteries that are different in any way!

But back to point, I couldn't justify the expense, and that horrid touch screen is just unacceptable. The one thing I will say is that at least Jeep doesn't force many of the luxury items on people; you can buy one without most, thank Goddess. The screen and much of the other electronics are there because of our wondrous OverLords, but "keyless start" is the answer to a question nobody was asking.

I get what Blaine is saying though. Technically it's not forced, as no one is forcing us to buy it. So I guess that's the wrong way to describe it. But, I know what you're saying for sure. I'll stick to the older Jeeps. I owned the a JK Rubicon for a while, and it was undoubtedly a better vehicle for day-to-day driving, I just didn't bond with it as much as I did the TJ.
 
Here you go, this is that Grand Tour segment on the original reproduction Jaguars XKSS:


It's a short watch, but check it out.

So yes, you can these companies to reproduce classics, but I promise you it ain't going to be cheap :ROFLMAO: That Jaguar is priced at over one million pounds, so I suspect if FCA were to revive a modern day TJ, you'd be paying in excess of at least 200k for one.

Listen to him talk about all the work they went to just to reproduce this thing, which appeals to an even more niche market than a TJ!
 
I get what Blaine is saying though. Technically it's not forced, as no one is forcing us to buy it. So I guess that's the wrong way to describe it. But, I know what you're saying for sure. I'll stick to the older Jeeps. I owned the a JK Rubicon for a while, and it was undoubtedly a better vehicle for day-to-day driving, I just didn't bond with it as much as I did the TJ.
Its not "forced" in that nobody's holding a gun to our heads, but it *is* "forced" from a de-facto standpoint. Its a 3-part (at least) problem: 1) Our "Benevolent OverLords" have decreed a lot of this crap. 2) The CarCos can get away with selling the non-decreed crap by simply removing consumer choice, and 3) My favorite peeve on the subject: The overall effeteness of the North American Car market. Americans are spoiled, and like to throw money around. Heaven forbid that an American have to take a key out of hir pocket to open or start a car! Perish the thought that anyone would have to roll their own window down or shift gears for themselves - that detracts from being able to use a smartphone!

I'm a cheap bastard, which is why I drive an old MBZ Diesel - the vehicle of choice among skinflints everywhere! Never try to out-cheap the owner of a Mercedes Diesel! :D
 
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Its not "forced" in that nobody's holding a gun to our heads, but it *is* "forced" from a de-facto standpoint. Its a 3-part (at least) problem: 1) Our "Benevolent OverLords" have decreed a lot of this crap. 2) The CarCos can get away with selling the non-decreed crap by simply removing consumer choice, and 3) My favorite peeve on the subject: The overall effeteness of the North American Car market. Americans are spoiled, and like to throw money around. Heaven forbid that an American have to take a key out of hir pocket to open or start a car! Perish the thought that anyone would have to roll their own window down or shift gears for themselves - that detracts from being able to use a smartphone!

I'm a cheap bastard, which is why I drive an old MBZ Diesel - the vehicle of choice among skinflints everywhere! Never try to out-cheap the owner of a Mercedes Diesel! :D
For every 1 cheap bastard there are 99 that wants to spend every dollar they don’t have.

Why would car companies cater to those that are so cheap if it cost a nickel to shit they’d have to puke?

When they can sell to those that will load up their loan for the next 84 months?
 
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For every 1 cheap bastard there are 99 that wants to spend every dollar they don’t have.

Why would car companies cater to those that are so cheap if it cost a nickel to shit they’d have to puke?

When they can sell to those that will load up their loan for the next 84 months?
That is the unfortunate truth.
 
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I think it was Henry Ford that said - If I asked what people wanted they’d have said a faster horse.
Yep, and he was the originator of not giving his customers choices: "You can have any color you want, as long as its black." - which given the color choices today, we're almost back to that!
 
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Yep, and he was the originator of not giving his customers choices: "You can have any color you want, as long as its black." - which given the color choices today, we're almost back to that!

And Ford is still that way. I can't get _______ option, because you can only get it in option package A. In other words, you have to pay some stupid price for a group of options as oppose to just getting the one you want :ROFLMAO:

When looking at new cars, the "packages" annoy me more than anything. It's like up-sell, after up-sell, after up-sell.

Oh, and don't forget the $1000 Scotch Guard package while at the dealer. You can roll that shit into your 84 month financing 🤣
 
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Some of the new econo shitboxes come standard with the touchscreen. Apparently they are much cheaper than other options

Even as a base model, the 2020 Spark includes a 7.0-inch screen with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto compatibility. If you want power windows, power locks, or remote keyless entry, you'll have to upgrade from the LS to the 1LT model, but cool exterior colors including the distinctive Passion Fruit as well as bright red, orange, and Caribbean Blue are also available. Power comes from a 98-hp four-cylinder engine mated to a five-speed manual or CVT.

I spent less for my Jeep than half of these POS cars that range from $14,000-19,000. Think that 2020 spark will be worth anything at the end of your 7 year loan. You could default on the loan after 5 years and they'd likely not even bother to repossess it.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/top-10-cheapest-new-cars/
 
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And Ford is still that way. I can't get _______ option, because you can only get it in option package A. In other words, you have to pay some stupid price for a group of options as oppose to just getting the one you want :ROFLMAO:

When looking at new cars, the "packages" annoy me more than anything. It's like up-sell, after up-sell, after up-sell.

Oh, and don't forget the $1000 Scotch Guard package while at the dealer. You can roll that shit into your 84 month financing 🤣
Chevy is pretty much the same way.

True story: About 1996 or so, I was looking for a pickup truck - basically 25 years ago. I went to Ford, GM, and Dodge and told them all the same thing: "I want your heavy duty 4X2 3/4 ton Diesel pickup with a manual transmission (Didn't bother to specify long bed, standard cab - that was a given back then). I want air conditioning, and I want cruise control, and I want all the heavy duty stuff (springs, cooling, etc). If it has a sliding rear window, that's great, if not, I can aftermarket it. If it has a nice stereo, great, if not I can aftermarket that too. I want a good, supportive bucket seat. I DO NOT WANT: Power windows, locks, seats, 'lighting packages', 'Appearance packages', etc, etc, etc. Can you sell me a truck like this?". Now this was in the days before complete idiocy had invaded trucks, leather and other stupidity wasn't in the deal as yet.

Ford and GM promptly said "Nope". Dodge said "Yep, we'll have to special order it, and you'll end up with a tilt steering wheel, but otherwise we can do it!" I ended up buying a used F-250 that was almost everything I wanted. I replaced the bench seat with a nice double bucket from J.C. Whip-me, installed a sliding rear window, replaced the smoker's carpet that was in it, had it repainted and it was PERFECT. But I've never forgotten Dodge's willingness to get me what I wanted - dunno if that would be true today.

I was an automotive enthusiast for many, many years. I am no-longer! I don't want to pay for this crap, pay interest on it, pay added licensing fees from the inflated price, nor do I want to be saddled with it and have to deal with it - much less have to maintain/repair/replace it when it breaks - as my late mother would say "Something else to break".
 
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Chevy is pretty much the same way.

True story: About 1996 or so, I was looking for a pickup truck - basically 25 years ago. I went to Ford, GM, and Dodge and told them all the same thing: "I want your heavy duty 4X2 3/4 ton Diesel pickup with a manual transmission (Didn't bother to specify long bed, standard cab - that was a given back then). I want air conditioning, and I want cruise control, and I want all the heavy duty stuff (springs, cooling, etc). If it has a sliding rear window, that's great, if not, I can aftermarket it. If it has a nice stereo, great, if not I can aftermarket that too. I want a good, supportive bucket seat. I DO NOT WANT: Power windows, locks, seats, 'lighting packages', 'Appearance packages', etc, etc, etc. Can you sell me a truck like this?". Now this was in the days before complete idiocy had invaded trucks, leather and other stupidity wasn't in the deal as yet.

Ford and GM promptly said "Nope". Dodge said "Yep, we'll have to special order it, and you'll end up with a tilt steering wheel, but otherwise we can do it!" I ended up buying a used F-250 that was almost everything I wanted. I replaced the bench seat with a nice double bucket from J.C. Whip-me, installed a sliding rear window, replaced the smoker's carpet that was in it, had it repainted and it was PERFECT. But I've never forgotten Dodge's willingness to get me what I wanted - dunno if that would be true today.

I was an automotive enthusiast for many, many years. I am no-longer! I don't want to pay for this crap, pay interest on it, pay added licensing fees from the inflated price, nor do I want to be saddled with it and have to deal with it - much less have to maintain/repair/replace it when it breaks - as my late mother would say "Something else to break".
Ford dealers can get you what you want but my experience has been the dealers are unwilling to order it. I went to three dealers before I found one that would place my order instead of push their lot vehicles on me.

I walked in with the printed build sheet and said this is exactly what I want, nothing else. It was a pain.
 
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Ford dealers can get you what you want but my experience has been the dealers are unwilling to order it. I went to three dealers before I found one that would place my order instead of push their lot vehicles on me.

I walked in with the printed build sheet and said this is exactly what I want, nothing else. It was a pain.
I have suspected as much for years, that its more the dealer than anybody else. I don't even want to buy off the lot, I want to submit a LINE ITEM order and get what I want in a couple of months - too much instant gratification I guess...

What were you after? Were you able to "get outside" of the packages and order what you wanted?

Never say never, but I'll probably never buy another new vehicle again anyway. I figure I have about 26 more years on this planet this time around, hopefully I can just keep what I have now.
 
I have suspected as much for years, that its more the dealer than anybody else. I don't even want to buy off the lot, I want to submit a LINE ITEM order and get what I want in a couple of months - too much instant gratification I guess...

What were you after? Were you able to "get outside" of the packages and order what you wanted?

Never say never, but I'll probably never buy another new vehicle again anyway. I figure I have about 26 more years on this planet this time around, hopefully I can just keep what I have now.
Mine was very well optioned. The big thing was I didn’t want the stupid chrome package and all the dealers get them with it.

It was an easy order since it was from the online configurator they just didn’t have it on their lot.
 
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