Need your opinion on this tire balance

[eastbloc]

Gentleman and ladies (if any left around),
asking for your opinion on this KO2 that have been outperforming all of my expectations for the past 6000 miles.

So far they have been back to balancing machine 4 times.
This last time i have discovered a difference between static and dynamic balancing. Statically tires balance well, 2 are in 1oz range and other 3 are in 4 to 5 oz range, not bad but that does not do the trick. By putting a spare into rotation, i was able to single out the worst tire which was terrorizing me at 50mph. That left me with 4 that are flawless at 55 mph, but start to shake at 65 and get better beyond 70.

Worst tire had roadforce of 32, dynamic balancing called for 6.5oz on inside and 7.25oz on the outside, so that one is replaced due to manufacturing defect.
Another tire was identified as outside of balancing ability(but they didn't give me any numbers), and is replaced due to manufacturing defect as well.

One of old tire was rotated on the rim to purposefully use more balancing weights, which are placed to counter balance each other. 6oz of stickies on one end, and 2.75oz of clip on opposite of stickies.


One of the new tires was purposefully mounted and balanced the same way, 4oz of stickies and 4.2oz of clips on opposite end.


Another new tires was balanced with just clips, and rest of the tires received same amount of sticky weights as before.

So, in summary this is what i have going on:
old 12oz sticky
old 9oz sticky
old 6oz sticky and 2.75oz clip on opposite.
new 4oz sticky and 4.2oz clip on opposite.
new 2.3oz clip on.

Still shaking at 65, but now shake feels worse than before this last shop, i quote "We gonna balance it so good, it will feel like driving a Cadillac".
Right now i am thinking to go to another tire shop, and get road force number for all 5 tires. From what i gather, it should be within 20 lb. What you guys think?

 

[Gilaguy23]

Id definitely try another shop, but I'll add BFG's are on the bottom of the, would I ever buy them again, due to your exact issue. I wont name names, but one of the site sponsors and very large volume dealers has been the most problematic of my 4 local shops. 3 tries on the jeep, and finally a Low budget 50/50 used/ new kinda tire shop got it right.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Right now i am thinking to go to another tire shop, and get road force number for all 5 tires. From what i gather, it should be within 20 lb. What you guys think?

I gave up on paying extra for Road Force balancing, I wasn't getting any better results with it. The best results I've had in years was a shop 50 miles from me with a typical 1960's era tire balance machine run by a guy who simply knew what he was doing. I'd go back there right now but they shut their doors last year.

 

[Gilaguy23]

I gave up on paying extra for Road Force balancing, I wasn't getting any better results with it. The best results I've had in years was a shop 50 miles from me with a typical 1960's era tire balance machine run by a guy who simply knew what he was doing. I'd go back there right now but they shut their doors last year.

I'll second that one. So many old school guys are gone anymore,machinists, mechanics a wealth of trial by fire and good old hands on knowledge. Nothing against the uber high tech of today, but it seems its just alot of big word hype much of the time.

 

[1Salty Dawg]

I was getting ready to buy those tires also, now I have to rethink because there is no old school shop around me to correctly balance that I know of.

 

[Josh300]

Just my 2 cents here on recent findings of my own, I finally tried ceramic balance beads in my home made beadlocks with 36x13.50 iroks and I must say, I’m impressed. Either I put down some crazy even welds or the beads are working. They actually ride better than my Mickey T’s on procomp wheels. BUT, I’ve been told they seem to work better on bigger tires.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Just my 2 cents here on recent findings of my own, I finally tried ceramic balance beads in my home made beadlocks with 36x13.50 iroks and I must say, I’m impressed. Either I put down some crazy even welds or the beads are working. They actually ride better than my Mickey T’s on procomp wheels. BUT, I’ve been told they seem to work better on bigger tires.

I should add some beads to mine, my MT/Rs are are getting old enough that balance issues are getting more common. But damn, it's not easy to do with bead lock wheels. I'll see about putting some in via the valve stems.

 

[eastbloc]

I gave up on paying extra for Road Force balancing, I wasn't getting any better results with it. The best results I've had in years was a shop 50 miles from me with a typical 1960's era tire balance machine run by a guy who simply knew what he was doing. I'd go back there right now but they shut their doors last year.

I'll second that one. So many old school guys are gone anymore,machinists, mechanics a wealth of trial by fire and good old hands on knowledge. Nothing against the uber high tech of today, but it seems its just alot of big word hype much of the time.

If someone could point me to one, i would drive there right now.
I use discount tire, and purposefully went to 4 different locations to have them rebalanced. The result is fairly consistent between 4 shops, they balance them the same and they equally failing to detect and eliminate the issue.

What a frustrating pain in the ass this is, i have heard about KO2 balancing issues but didn't think it be this bad. Unfortunately there are not that many options as far as tires that are narrower than 12.5.
What do you guys think about them porpusfuly rotating a tire on a rim to use more weight? Something tells me it is a bandaid on the issue that will resurface later.

 

[eastbloc]

Just my 2 cents here on recent findings of my own, I finally tried ceramic balance beads in my home made beadlocks with 36x13.50 iroks and I must say, I’m impressed. Either I put down some crazy even welds or the beads are working. They actually ride better than my Mickey T’s on procomp wheels. BUT, I’ve been told they seem to work better on bigger tires.

I am not against this, so what, you just dump ceramic balls between a rim and tire?
I have used Centramatics before with not much success, and with this new 15" rims they are pretty much unusable due to lack of clearance.

 

[Longwhitejeep]

I have run airsoft bb's before in a set of swampers before. It worked OK but swampers are typically hard to balance and ride like garbage anyway.

They do make a shing sound when you stop kinda quickly from the bb's falling on the wheel.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I am not against this, so what, you just dump ceramic balls between a rim and tire?
I have used Centramatics before with not much success, and with this new 15" rims they are pretty much unusable due to lack of clearance.

Something like this is what I'm close to going with. https://www.abcbalancingbeads.com/the-right-way-to-install-tire-balancing-beads/

 

[Mudflat]

Id definitely try another shop, but I'll add BFG's are on the bottom of the, would I ever buy them again, due to your exact issue. I wont name names, but one of the site sponsors and very large volume dealers has been the most problematic of my 4 local shops. 3 tries on the jeep, and finally a Low budget 50/50 used/ new kinda tire shop got it right.

I agree with you on this. I’ve had 2 separate balancing issues with KO2s on 2 different vehicles (one is them is my TJ). The first time was about 10 years ago with my F-350. The guy at Discount tire told me that a belt had shifted or something so I replaced them all with a different brand; ‘No problems after that.
My second problem with KO2s was with my TJ. I bought it with these tires, did a lot of front end work which helped a lot, but I still had a little shake starting at around 45 mph. The KO2s were over 5 years old & I was going to change them in a year anyway so I bought a set of Falken AT3Ws. ‘Smooth as silk even at 70+mph.

 

[Josh300]

I am not against this, so what, you just dump ceramic balls between a rim and tire?
I have used Centramatics before with not much success, and with this new 15" rims they are pretty much unusable due to lack of clearance.

Yes, used 1-10 ounce bag per tire for my application. There are charts you can use for reference on how much you need.

 

[Josh300]

I should add some beads to mine, my MT/Rs are are getting old enough that balance issues are getting more common. But damn, it's not easy to do with bead lock wheels. I'll see about putting some in via the valve stems.

I should also disclose my iroks are bias ply. That may have some to do with the better ride. But they definitely ride better than my Mickeys/stick on weights I daily drive it with.

 

[pagrey]

Used tire shops normally have people that know how to balance tires. They also don't have pencil pushing salesman wearing white shirts sitting behind a computer and you can talk to the person running the machine. Try searching for used tires in your area. When you talk to the guy running the machine tell them your Jeep is sensitive to balance because it's a piece of shit and you'd really like the tires at zero. They'll understand and at least try to get it right.

 

[steelhd]

Something like this is what I'm close to going with. https://www.abcbalancingbeads.com/the-right-way-to-install-tire-balancing-beads/

The injection system looks like a pretty slick solution. The description of their beads sounds like magical snake oil and pure nonsense.

"ABC’s trademark balancing beads are glass tempered beads that balance at the center of your tire.

Unlike regular beads, ABC’s balancing beads use memory technology to keep them stabilized and in place, even when your vehicle has stopped. They continuously balance your tires as you drive. Our beads balance the complete axle in, the tire, the wheel, and all the moving components of the wheel."

WTF?

 

[Josh300]

They can shing, ding, dong or fart for all that i care, as long as am not shaking and worrying about seals and bearings failing



Any reason between this or that? I can find them all on Amazon: ABC, E-Z, Couteract ceramic and temper glass ... all equally look like a scam
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079MGGNR4/?tag=wranglerorg-20https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VO70W7E/?tag=wranglerorg-20https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06W2N5MTW/?tag=wranglerorg-20
Josh300 did you remove old balancers? I read that this things need imbalance in order to work.

They were brand new wheels so they had never been balanced to begin with. I would say yes remove the old weights though. Especially if they are out of balance anyways.

And I just used some ceramic ones I found on Amazon. E-Z tire or something like that.

 

[williambmac]

I wouldn't be happy with all that weight.

I gave up on paying extra for Road Force balancing, I wasn't getting any better results with it. The best results I've had in years was a shop 50 miles from me with a typical 1960's era tire balance machine run by a guy who simply knew what he was doing. I'd go back there right now but they shut their doors last year.

I used to be really particular about balancing my tires, any tire with over 16lbs of road force or excessive weight went back defective.
The problem with Mud tires is, they always generate higher Road Force numbers. And it gets worse as they wear.
Road Force vibes are real but is much more noticeable on passenger car and SUV tires.
Road Force #'s can also be manipulated by how much air pressure is in a tire.
You can have a tire that has 25lbs of Road Force at 35psi but drop the pressure down to 20psi and you're at 10lbs of Road Force.
When I do tires on my Jeep now, I just do a standard dynamic balance. I will however return any tire that takes more than 7oz. to balance.
I've had numerous Cooper and M/T tires that wanted well over 16oz. to balance out.

 

[Old_Crow]

Biggest problem I've seen with having tires re-balanced is guys that won't pull the old weights off first. I hate when they just add weights to what was there. Last time I had my tires balanced, I looked at them in the parking lot, got the store manager and showed her and made the guy do it again.
The new wheels and tires I bought from Tire Rack came mounted and already road force balanced. Only have about 6k miles on them and no issues so far.

 

[BlueC]

@eastbloc Do your tires have factory paint marks on them? If so, are they aligned with the valve stem?