New wobble

[jh17]

I have a 2001 TJ. Over the last year ish I have been replacing parts myself because it is my everyday car and I don't want it to break down and be in a pinch. In the last year I have replaced both wheel hubs, sway bar end links, sway bar bushings, steering kit, front track bar, and upper and lower steering shafts.

Being that it's 22 years old, there is a lot of play in the steering. I have tinkered with the steering gearbox to try to reduce this. After I tightened the screw on the gearbox, I started having a wobble at 60-65 mph. The tires are 2 or 3 years old and seem like they're in good shape. I don't think they have been rotated. The rims are after market and I believe they were balanced when installed. I think they have weights on them, although I have gotten new tires since these rims were installed.

It seems the adjustment to the steering gearbox introduced the wobble, but maybe with all the parts I have replaced, that adjustment was just what triggered the wobble? I don't think any of the parts I got are super cheap, they're all new. How do I get rid of this wobble? It's not the death wobble.

I have read various threads saying tires probably aren't balanced and could be rotated. I have checked the ball joints, they seem fine. I haven't replaced the ball joints but I'm pretty sure they aren't stock so they've been replaced in the life of my Jeep. I did the ball joint check where you lift the front end, take a bar and lift one of the front tires with the bar under the tire and watch the ball joints. They seem fine.

Should I rotate the tires? front to back and left right? Should I take the Jeep in and have the tires balanced? Do you think I accidentally cheaped out with the steering kit or track bar? I never had any hint of wobble until I tried adjusting the steering gearbox.

 

[AndyG]

Gearbox tightening takes a special process- generally better to avoid messing with it -

Learn to do a dry steering test - have a buddy turn the wheel from 10-2 repeatedly as you watch all connections for play- engine off and on



There is no “pat” answer but persistence -

Put the front tires on the back-

Then report back

 

[Fluxor]

What AndyG said. Most wobble issues I have seen resolve with properly balanced tires. But sometimes its a treasure hunt with out a metal detector!

 

[jh17]

Gearbox tightening takes a special process- generally better to avoid messing with it -

Learn to do a dry steering test - have a buddy turn the wheel from 10-2 repeatedly as you watch all connections for play- engine off and on



There is no “pat” answer but persistence -

Put the front tires on the back-

Then report back

The tires were rotated and the wobble significantly improved! Thank you for the input.

 

[AndyG]

The tires were rotated and the wobble significantly improved! Thank you for the input.

That pretty much tells you that you’re balancing work needs to be taken further- If everything is in good shape on a TJ, the quality of the tire work will ultimately be what matters.

 

[Cooper Smith]

The tires were rotated and the wobble significantly improved! Thank you for the input.

Discount Tire always gets my balance right if I tip the kid that does it (per Jerry's advice). In November, I put stock tires on my Jeep and had the most gut wrenching death wobble I've ever had. It was speed dependent around >55 MPH. As tires age, after 5-6 years, the belts inside may break, tires go out of round from sitting, lose wheel weights, etc.

I didn't know tires were that big of a deal until I had brand new Goodyear's put on, road force balanced perfectly. Took it on the highway back home at 75 MPH. No wobble. Tires took me from being completely undriveable to no issues (knock on wood) after 5 months now. I have no idea how it works but the physics term is precession, and tires are a HUGE factor in terms of wobble on I guess any car, but especially SFA vehicles.

 

[AndyG]

Discount Tire always gets my balance right if I tip the kid that does it (per Jerry's advice). In November, I put stock tires on my Jeep and had the most gut wrenching death wobble I've ever had. It was speed dependent around >55 MPH. As tires age, after 5-6 years, the belts inside may break, tires go out of round from sitting, lose wheel weights, etc.

I didn't know tires were that big of a deal until I had brand new Goodyear's put on, road force balanced perfectly. Took it on the highway back home at 75 MPH. No wobble. Tires took me from being completely undriveable to no issues (knock on wood) after 5 months now. I have no idea how it works but the physics term is precession, and tires are a HUGE factor in terms of wobble on I guess any car, but especially SFA vehicles.

Great post.

People don’t realize the scale of 2-4” more tire- a 35” mud tire for example will knock you down if rolled at you in the shop.

Now x 4 and get ‘em up to 60 plus mph, and factor in some poor balance.

And oh, the jeep itself still weighs the same - it is a 1/4 ton vehicle running tires intended for a 3/4 ton truck and often on beadlock rims to boot.

Big Brakes, bigger, better steering, gears....these are not just schemes to sell parts.....they are part of the plan to make it all work safely and enjoyably.

 

[Cooper Smith]

Great post.

People don’t realize the scale of 2-4” more tire- a 35” mud tire for example will knock you down if rolled at you in the shop.

Now x 4 and get ‘em up to 60 plus mph, and factor in some poor balance.

And oh, the jeep itself still weighs the same - it is a 1/4 ton vehicle running tires intended for a 3/4 ton truck and often on beadlock rims to boot.

Big Brakes, bigger, better steering, gears....these are not just schemes to sell parts.....they are part of the plan to make it all work safely and enjoyably.

I wish I could understand it to explain it better, but, I have a habit of getting on a tangent and not always being the most correct

It was explained to me as the two front tires are essentially fighting each other in a SFA, so when there's theoretically play in the system that has offset caster angles, loose or worn parts, etc.; you get into a big mess that a lot of times just ends up in a wild goose chase when in reality so many times it's the tires just being old and out of balance. I think of it as an out of balance tire effecting equilibrium on either side, throwing off the system's responsiveness.

It's also worth mentioning those stock tires I mentioned were from 2011. 12 years old. How the fuck they even held air is miles beyond me. (Or behind me, because I almost had to walk home...)

It's interesting to learn about when you don't have a wobble. It's a nightmare when you're trying to figure out why you do.

 

[AndyG]

I wish I could understand it to explain it better, but, I have a habit of getting on a tangent and not always being the most correct

It was explained to me as the two front tires are essentially fighting each other in a SFA, so when there's theoretically play in the system that has offset caster angles, loose or worn parts, etc.; you get into a big mess that a lot of times just ends up in a wild goose chase when in reality so many times it's the tires just being old and out of balance. I think of it as an out of balance tire effecting equilibrium on either side, throwing off the system's responsiveness.

It's also worth mentioning those stock tires I mentioned were from 2011. 12 years old. How the fuck they even held air is miles beyond me. (Or behind me, because I almost had to walk home...)

It's interesting to learn about when you don't have a wobble. It's a nightmare when you're trying to figure out why you do.

There can be an amazing amount of variation - You can even have a rig that is fairly sloppy connection wise and it might run out ok....But the one thing you’re probably not going get by with is poorly balanced tires.

Generally speaking good connections, good angles and good tires is the golden triangle of on road manners.