Replaced suspension and still have death wobble

[Chasitek]

***YES I KNOW WHAT DEATH WOBBLE IS AND NO IT'S NOT A TIRE SHIMMY***
So to start, I have an 06 LJ that I bought with a 2" puck lift that had a very very occasional death wobble only at highway speeds. Didn't worry about it because it was rare. Happened 3 times total maybe. only non-stock things were the lift pucks and shocks. I bought a 3.5" used lift that came off a buddys TJ. included used skyjacker shocks, springs, adjustable front and rear track bar. I bought new extended swap bar end links. I got some used rough country adjustable control arms and replaced all the bushings before installing them and then got an alignment. The alignment helped a bunch but they showed me the ball joints were bad as well as the drag link (i did the ZJ tie rod conversion so the tie rod was good). I replaced the ball joints and drag link and it didn't really help. I then replaced the front track bar with a metalcloak one, still didn't help. I balanced the tires (goodyear MTR's 33s) and one was pretty bad calling for a 10oz weight. I still managed to balance the tires to 0. Before balancing my jeep would always get tire wobbles that would send it into DW at about 50-55 mph. After balancing that went away but I still get death wobble when going over certain bumps. So to sum it up I have a new track bar, new sway bar end links, new tie rod and drag link, new steering stabilizer, and new ball joints. Used control arms with new bushings and used coils and shocks. What else can cause death wobble besides the wheel bearings. Myself and 2 other people have checked the wheel bearings and they are fine. I need help!!!!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

You're assuring us your tires are not the cause even though one is bad enough to require over a half-pound of weight to balance it? I've had tires balanced to 0 and they were still the trigger for DW.

 

[Chasitek]

You're assuring us your tires are not the cause even though one is bad enough to require over a half-pound of weight to balance it? I've had tires balanced to 0 and they were still the trigger for DW.

Tires could be the problem, everything I've read says it can't be the cause so I ruled it out. If you say it's likely my tires that'll be the first thing I change. Is there any way to test this though? Can I air them down and see if that helps?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Everything you've read saying the tires can't be the cause of DW is wrong. This is something I wrote some time back, see if it makes any sense...

A balanced electric motor spinning while only being loosely bolted to the work bench won't shake or vibrate. An out of balance spinning motor bolted firmly to the work bench will shake/vibrate the work bench. An out of balance spinning motor only loosely bolted to the work bench will shake the bejesus out of the work bench.

Which tire has the 10 oz. of weight on it? If it's in front move it to the rear and see what happens.

 

[Chasitek]

So do you think something is loosely bolted too?

Everything you've read saying the tires can't be the cause of DW is wrong. This is something I wrote some time back, see if it makes any sense...

A balanced electric motor spinning while only being loosely bolted to the work bench won't shake or vibrate. An out of balance spinning motor bolted firmly to the work bench will shake/vibrate the work bench. An out of balance spinning motor only loosely bolted to the work bench will shake the bejesus out of the work bench.

Which tire has the 10 oz. of weight on it? If it's in front move it to the rear and see what happens.

 

[pagrey]

Balance balance and balance, and did you replace both control arm bushings in the front axle? You can adjust the toe to neutral or slightly positive and if the wobble goes away it suggests the upper control arm bushings are shot. Just replacing the bushings in the arms isn't enough.

 

[Chasitek]

Balance balance and balance, and did you replace both control arm bushings in the front axle? You can adjust the toe to neutral or slightly positive and if the wobble goes away it suggests the upper control arm bushings are shot. Just replacing the bushings in the arms isn't enough.

The tires were balanced to 0 by myself on a good calibrated machine. When replacing the control arms I inspected the axle side bushings, there were no signs or cracking or play.

 

[pagrey]

The tires were balanced to 0 by myself on a good calibrated machine. When replacing the control arms I inspected the axle side bushings, there were no signs or cracking or play.

Mine caused problems and looked perfect. If they are stock they are shot. Try the toe thing if you can (it's free). Those uppers make a massive difference.

 

[Chasitek]

Mine caused problems and looked perfect. If they are stock they are shot. Try the toe thing if you can (it's free). Those uppers make a massive difference.

My toe is already set in as well. I will recheck the bushings but I don't think it's the cause. On my previous tj they were shot and I had all types of worn control arm bushings but my tj never had a single wobble.

 

[pagrey]

My toe is already set in as well. I will recheck the bushings but I don't think it's the cause. On my previous tj they were shot and I had all types of worn control arm bushings but my tj never had a single wobble.

I am suggesting you un-set your toe to test. It should be set slightly toe-in. I am suggesting you set it to neutral or slightly toe-out and see if the vibes disappear. If they change this suggests the upper control arms are bad. Then you replace those and set the toe back to toe-in like it should be stock.

 

[Chasitek]

I am suggesting you un-set your toe to test. It should be set slightly toe-in. I am suggesting you set it to neutral or slightly toe-out and see if the vibes disappear. If they change this suggests the upper control arms are bad. Then you replace those and set the toe back to toe-in like it should be stock.

Yes, my toe is set in 1/16 of an inch. When running larger tires you should always set your toe in 1/8-1/16 of an inch, not stock.

 

[pagrey]

Yes, my toe is set in 1/16 of an inch. When running larger tires you should always set your toe in 1/8-1/16 of an inch, not stock.

Sounds like you're good.

 

[John Scoggins]

Have you tried swapping the fronts to the rear to see if anything changed?

 

[Chasitek]

Sounds like you're good.

I originally had the exact same thoughts as you. I bought the bushings for the uppers and removed the control arms to do the jobs but they were both right and tight. Trust me man, I have checked and rechecked EVERYTHING. Changed soooo many things just to come back to the same problem. Thank you though.

 

[Chasitek]

Have you tried swapping the fronts to the rear to see if anything changed?

Rears have bad toe wear. They were on a truck that had a bad alignment.

 

[andy29847]

Are you using aftermarket wheels. Is the hole for the hub in the center bigger than 71.5mm? If so, your wheels are lug centric. Lug centric wheels can be mounted off center if you tighten the first lug nut down to much (wheel won't slide into position as the other lug nuts are tightened. I use hub centric rings to match my American Racing wheels to the jeep hub. I haven't had any issues with shimmy or wobble since I figured this out. Disclaimer: some of the members here say this is voodoo. Others, like myself, found it to be the answer to what had been a nagging problem. My story is here: https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/hub-centric-wheel-questions.26958/

 

[Chasitek]

Are you using aftermarket wheels. Is the hole for the hub in the center bigger than 71.5mm? If so, your wheels are lug centric. Lug centric wheels can be mounted off center if you tighten the first lug nut down to much (wheel won't slide into position as the other lug nuts are tightened. I use hub centric rings to match my American Racing wheels to the jeep hub. I haven't had any issues with shimmy or wobble since I figured this out. Disclaimer: some of the members here say this is voodoo. Others, like myself, found it to be the answer to what had been a nagging problem. My story is here: https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/hub-centric-wheel-questions.26958/

these are the wheels I have
https://www.extremeterrain.com/pro-comp-steel-252-street-lock-flat-black-wheel-15x8-8706.htmlI also have conical lug nuts so I think they center the wheels.

 

[andy29847]

these are the wheels I have
https://www.extremeterrain.com/pro-comp-steel-252-street-lock-flat-black-wheel-15x8-8706.htmlI also have conical lug nuts so I think they center the wheels.

From the info I found, the Pro comp 252 is a universal fit wheel. To me this means that the hub holes are probably oversize for a Jeep. In your situation, I would try to re-center each wheel using this method:


1. Jack car up and secure it with a jackstand (Safety First )
2. Loosen all lug nuts and either put on rim, rotate or whatever the hell you need to do.
3. Thread on all the lug nuts, but DO NOT tighten to where you can not move em.
4. Rotate the tire/rim until one of the 5 lugs is at the 12 o clock position.
5. Tighten lug nut with thumb and forefinger to the point that you can not do it anymore.
6. Rotate the tire clockwise, skipping one lug nut.
7. After skipping the one nut, put the 3rd nut in the 12 o clock position. Tighten this one the same as Step 5
8. Skip one more nut, and repeat Step 5. This last nut will be right next to the first one.
9. Let the truck down to where the tires barely touch the ground. Use a wrench and tighten all bolts with about 25% of your strength. Just enough to grab.
10. I then let the truck down all the way and torqued the bolts to 90.
11. Repeat all steps above for the rest of the truck and throw a couple of beers in there

 

[Chasitek]

From the info I found, the Pro comp 252 is a universal fit wheel. To me this means that the hub holes are probably oversize for a Jeep. In your situation, I would try to re-center each wheel using this method:


1. Jack car up and secure it with a jackstand (Safety First )
2. Loosen all lug nuts and either put on rim, rotate or whatever the hell you need to do.
3. Thread on all the lug nuts, but DO NOT tighten to where you can not move em.
4. Rotate the tire/rim until one of the 5 lugs is at the 12 o clock position.
5. Tighten lug nut with thumb and forefinger to the point that you can not do it anymore.
6. Rotate the tire clockwise, skipping one lug nut.
7. After skipping the one nut, put the 3rd nut in the 12 o clock position. Tighten this one the same as Step 5
8. Skip one more nut, and repeat Step 5. This last nut will be right next to the first one.
9. Let the truck down to where the tires barely touch the ground. Use a wrench and tighten all bolts with about 25% of your strength. Just enough to grab.
10. I then let the truck down all the way and torqued the bolts to 90.
11. Repeat all steps above for the rest of the truck and throw a couple of beers in there

I will try this. Crossing my fingers this is the solution!

 

[AndyG]

First , and I'm not slamming you buddy .. but used tires with issues are your first problem.

Secondly , if you have speed consistent deathwobble, it is most always tire/wheel related. (I have even seen a bad rotor cause this )

Your original post says you fixed that , and now it is only certain bumps . That is passive death wobble , or what I call DWWTH - death wobble waiting to happen - you need to carefully dry test the steering ...bump related death wobble leans toward the track bar mounts (if it's a new bar) ,and control arms . What is activated when you hit a bump that moves anything left to right? A track bar is .

You said you know what death wobble is ..which I think means you know what it feels like . Death Wobble is basically auto-oscillation of the steering linkage that overpowers the tracking force of the front tires .. either caused by the tires and or allowed by the linkage components .. and usually a mix that varies from vehicle to vehicle based on age of parts and tire condition.

You can't have a good driving TJ Wrangler with crappy tires ..it won't happen .

Even a front end with worn components will tend to drive ok with good tires .. til you hit a bump .