No crank but power on 06 TJ

M

Medic2038

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
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38
Location
Pittsburgh
06 TJ, auto, i6
On day 2 now of trying to get to the bottom of this. I'm not so sure what to do at this point.

No issues recently. Went to the grocery store yesterday morning, and when I came out no start no crank. Dash is on, no codes, just won't crank.

I'd replaced the starter back in August. AAA came and got me home. Figured it was the starter again (since that was the same exact issue). 12v at battery. Went and swapped out the starter since it was under warrantee. No go, same issue.

Came here and searched the "no start thread", my multimeter cables aren't long enough to reach from the battery to starter. I also don't have any extra hands to help me out.
Read the ignition actuator problem is pretty common, so I got one, and a new ignition switch today. Got them in, and having the same issue.

It's cold, raining, and I'm trying to get this solved so i can go to work in the morning. Appreciate any help you guys have.
 
Can you bridge the starter? have not even looked at my jeep starter but if you can bridge a TJ starter that will tell you if its the starter/solenoid or electrical before starter.
 
Medic2038 said:
06 TJ, auto, i6
On day 2 now of trying to get to the bottom of this. I'm not so sure what to do at this point.

No issues recently. Went to the grocery store yesterday morning, and when I came out no start no crank. Dash is on, no codes, just won't crank.

I'd replaced the starter back in August. AAA came and got me home. Figured it was the starter again (since that was the same exact issue). 12v at battery. Went and swapped out the starter since it was under warrantee. No go, same issue.

Came here and searched the "no start thread", my multimeter cables aren't long enough to reach from the battery to starter. I also don't have any extra hands to help me out.
Read the ignition actuator problem is pretty common, so I got one, and a new ignition switch today. Got them in, and having the same issue.

It's cold, raining, and I'm trying to get this solved so i can go to work in the morning. Appreciate any help you guys have.
Click to expand...
Get some wires...put some alligator clips on them. Now you can reach.

Having said that....

#1 Check your battery connections.

Too many times people say "yeah it's good"...when in fact it's not good.

#2 battery age?

Just because it says 12 volts don't mean shit. You need to see the cranking amps. A REAL battery tester. It can read 12.2 volts but if your cranking amps are reading 118 or something CCA (cold cranking amps)...it no longer has the ass to start the machine.

I'd bet your issue lies with the battery and or connection.
 
I had the same issue and was sick of trouble shooting. I went out and bought a $15 push button from Napa and ran it to the starter. Problem solved. Just run a wire from the positive on the starter to one end of the button. The other end taps into one (any) of the thicker red wires in the steering column's cluster. Takes maybe 20mins. Just make sure you disconnect the battery. I blew a fuse that ended up taking me even longer to figure out. You still need the key, just turn it to the run position and use the button to start.
 
Fishtaco said:
Can you bridge the starter? have not even looked at my jeep starter but if you can bridge a TJ starter that will tell you if its the starter/solenoid or electrical before starter.
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So that's just taking wire from the positive to the little flat part?
I was thinking I wanted to give this a try, but I really don't know how to jump it.


#1 Check your battery connections.

Too many times people say "yeah it's good"...when in fact it's not good.
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Yeah I hit the posts with a brush, and ran some sandpaper around the terminal connectors. Made sure all the connections were tight, and clean. Nothing

#2 battery age?

Just because it says 12 volts don't mean shit. You need to see the cranking amps. A REAL battery tester. It can read 12.2 volts but if your cranking amps are reading 118 or something CCA (cold cranking amps)...it no longer has the ass to start the machine.
Click to expand...

Battery is only a couple of years old. It's not even TRYING to crank. I also can't check what it's cranking at because I don't have anyone to help me at the moment.
 
Medic2038 said:
So that's just taking wire from the positive to the little flat part?
I was thinking I wanted to give this a try, but I really don't know how to jump it.



Yeah I hit the posts with a brush, and ran some sandpaper around the terminal connectors. Made sure all the connections were tight, and clean. Nothing



Battery is only a couple of years old. It's not even TRYING to crank. I also can't check what it's cranking at because I don't have anyone to help me at the moment.
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I have always done it with a screwdriver or spanner, does spark a bit if you ground it lol but not familiar with the jeeps starter.
 
Fishtaco said:
I have always done it with a screwdriver or spanner, does spark a bit if you ground it lol but not familiar with the jeeps starter.
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So yeah the starter definitely spins when I do that. I did it without the key in the ignition or anything so it still didn't try to start up (I also didn't hold it there long).


Jerry Bransford said:
Try moving the shifter back & forth between Park and Neutral with the ignition switch in the Start position. If it starts your shifter cable has likely just stretched a tad.
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Nothing changed. Gave it a try.

Edit: Just to add I also checked the fuses, and swapped the starter and horn relays.
 
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OK so have an assistant today. Also got some additional length for the multimeter (also bought a digital one at HF).

So battery is showing 11.58v on the digital on the terminals (the one i was using before is a small analog so looked like 12). Not dropping at all when trying to start. Doing a quick search on that value it looks like the battery is almost completely dead.

Anyway tried hooking up the jumper cables to it, and seeing if that world turn it over. After about 10 minutes, tried to start and nothing.

Can batteries just fail?
It's not more then 2-3 years old,
 
11.58 is enough for the starter to crank the engine. That is If the starter motor is actually seeing that voltage while the ignition switch is in the start position. Use the voltmeter to measure the voltage at the starter motor itself while the ignition switch is in the start position. If the voltage at the starter motor itself is still 11.5 volt, and it's not working, I suspect the starter motor has gone bad. If the voltage at the starter motor is significantly less than what is at the battery itself, I suspect a bad connection at the battery. Also, there are two wires at the starter motor that bring voltage to the starter motor. Measure the voltage on both the big and the small wire and see if they're both measuring the same voltage. if not, what is the voltage on the big wire and what is the voltage on the small wire while the ignition switch is in the start position?
 
Jerry Bransford said:
11.58 is enough for the starter to crank the engine. That is If the starter motor is actually seeing that voltage while the ignition switch is in the start position. Use the voltmeter to measure the voltage at the starter motor itself while the ignition switch is in the start position. If the voltage at the starter motor itself is still 11.5 volt, and it's not working, I suspect the starter motor has gone bad. If the voltage at the starter motor is significantly less than what is at the battery itself, I suspect a bad connection at the battery. Also, there are two wires at the starter motor that bring voltage to the starter motor. Measure the voltage on both the big and the small wire and see if they're both measuring the same voltage. if not, what is the voltage on the big wire and what is the voltage on the small wire while the ignition switch is in the start position?
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Ok I'll give that a try. I'd gotten a new starter in on Saturday (i exchanged the autozone starter under warrantee). There wasn't any change in what happened. This is the same exact problem I had when I DID have the starter go bad (August).

As far as testing that, should I still be using the multimeter and just making a circuit with the probes?
Like should I pull the positive battery wire off, and do the probe on the end of that, and on the starter positive post?
Then repeat with the ignition wire?
 
Leave all the wiring connected, you just want to measure the voltage on the starter motor itself, while the ignition switch is in the Start position, to see what voltage it is seeing while you're trying to start the engine.

At this point I'm almost suspecting nothing more than a bad connection if you're seeing that 11.58 volts on the battery while the ignition switch is in the Start position. Try removing both battery connections, use a wire brush to clean both posts and the inside of both connectors, then reinstall and securely tighten them onto the posts.
 
Jerry Bransford said:
Leave all the wiring connected, you just want to measure the voltage on the starter motor itself, while the ignition switch is in the Start position, to see what voltage it is seeing while you're trying to start the engine.

At this point I'm almost suspecting nothing more than a bad connection if you're seeing that 11.58 volts on the battery while the ignition switch is in the Start position. Try removing both battery connections, use a wire brush to clean both posts and the inside of both connectors, then reinstall and securely tighten them onto the posts.
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Jerry, Thanks for helping me out with this, I appreciate it. I'll definitely do that tomorrow (cleaning, and will try testing again).

It's raining and just above freezing so had to call it quits for tonight.

I'll say I'm not super experienced with a multimeter. Should I just be putting both probes where I'm trying to get the reading (like the starter positive, and then the ignition)?

I'd also done number 4 don't start page. I tried measuring from the positive battery post, to the starter body. That was giving us a reading of .5 (It wasn't anywhere close to the 11.58 on the post to post),
 
There is a wire and a cable that are connected to the starter; the cable goes from the positive on the battery to the starter solenoid and the wire that actuates the starter solenoid comes from the ignition switch by way of the starter relay.
Turn the ignition switch as if you are trying to start the Jeep and check what the voltage is on the wire that engages the starter solenoid while the ignition switch is held in the start position. IF there is no voltage check the 40A fuse 13 (PDC) and 20A fuse 20 (glove compt fuse block), then test terminals 1(start) &2 (run) on the ignition switch, check terminals the starter relay terminals B1 and B5 for voltage, to determine why you can jump the starter and solenoid, but cant crank with the ignition switch.
IF the fuses are good and there is no voltage going to the starter relay, then there is a good chance the contacts in ignition switch have gone bad OR the ignition switch harness could have over heated and melted. You will need to remove the plastic clam shell that surrounds the steering column to test and verify.
 
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Medic2038 said:
OK so have an assistant today. Also got some additional length for the multimeter (also bought a digital one at HF).

So battery is showing 11.58v on the digital on the terminals (the one i was using before is a small analog so looked like 12). Not dropping at all when trying to start. Doing a quick search on that value it looks like the battery is almost completely dead.

Anyway tried hooking up the jumper cables to it, and seeing if that world turn it over. After about 10 minutes, tried to start and nothing.

Can batteries just fail?
It's not more then 2-3 years old,
Click to expand...
YES....
Absolutely positively damn straight batteries can just fail. Its what they do present day.
There's a reason these batteries no longer use a pro rated warranty. Everything is now 24 mo, 36 month...full replacement or nothing at that month threshold.

We see this shit all the time. I own a repair facility and there's a reason why I stressed to you aboit the battery and asked it's age.

I'm not sure who above said 11.58 volts is enough to turn the starter....
That voltage is really insignificant when trying to start. You can see 12 volts on a bad battery all day long.

Its the cranking amps that's your concern.

Let's say your battery is supposed to have 690 cold cranking amps (as example)
(Whatever is on the tag)

And it's only got 180 CCA...yet the volts are showing 12 volts. (We'll round up for sake of argument. Plus a harbor freight multi meter can be off a 1/2 volt.)

So you've plenty of juice to power your accessories (which needs 12 volts) but your CCA (cold cranking amps) are insanely low which is absolutely needed for turning the starter. That low of CCA won't even blip the starter. (If it's indeed that low)

See the starter itself isn't hard to turn...it's turning the engine that's difficult.
Before synthetic oil, conventional really got thick in the super cold temperatures. That made turning the engine with said starter that much harder. Hence you've got batteries from the same series...(34, 78, as example) etc...all with different CCA.

Obviously you're in easy winter Florida but you still need enough cranking amps to turn the engine (starting).

Going back to my original post...
You MIGHT have a bad connection...but if this just started doing it out of the blue ... abd your battery has some age....it's probably time for a new battery.

You are ok with harbor freight stuff (im not being in business) but you should consider one of these. It will come in handy for many years.
https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-automotive-battery-analyzer-66892.html
You need a real tester to actually see the CCA of said battery. Cruise craigslist or whatever and you can probably score one of any brand real cheap. Just make sure it's an auto battery tester.

On to your jumpimg attempt...

Nearly all jumper cables today are junk. I mean real trash. The fact you got nothing after attempting a jump means nothing to me.

I ask again...what is the age of battery?
 
Rubicon88 said:
I'm not sure who above said 11.58 volts is enough to turn the starter....
That voltage is really insignificant when trying to start. You can see 12 volts on a bad battery all day long.

Its the cranking amps that's your concern.

Let's say your battery is supposed to have 690 cold cranking amps (as example)
(Whatever is on the tag)

And it's only got 180 CCA...yet the volts are showing 12 volts. (We'll round up for sake of argument. Plus a harbor freight multi meter can be off a 1/2 volt.)

So you've plenty of juice to power your accessories (which needs 12 volts) but your CCA (cold cranking amps) are insanely low which is absolutely needed for turning the starter. That low of CCA won't even blip the starter. (If it's indeed that low)

See the starter itself isn't hard to turn...it's turning the engine that's difficult.
Before synthetic oil, conventional really got thick in the super cold temperatures. That made turning the engine with said starter that much harder. Hence you've got batteries from the same series...(34, 78, as example) etc...all with different CCA.

Obviously you're in easy winter Florida but you still need enough cranking amps to turn the engine (starting).

Going back to my original post...
You MIGHT have a bad connection...but if this just started doing it out of the blue ... abd your battery has some age....it's probably time for a new battery.

You are ok with harbor freight stuff (im not being in business) but you should consider one of these. It will come in handy for many years.
https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-automotive-battery-analyzer-66892.html
You need a real tester to actually see the CCA of said battery. Cruise craigslist or whatever and you can probably score one of any brand real cheap. Just make sure it's an auto battery tester.

On to your jumpimg attempt...

Nearly all jumper cables today are junk. I mean real trash. The fact you got nothing after attempting a jump means nothing to me.

I ask again...what is the age of battery?
Click to expand...
I'd tried to answer above, didn't tag you though.

Anyway battery isn't more than a few years old (no more than 3). I have AAA so will call them out to test the battery today.

Also I'm in PA not Fl, so definitely am dealing with it being cold

I thought when I had a dead battery in the past, it at least tried to crank. I don't run any extras in my TJ so it's just an autozone type battery is in there now.

As far as bad connection. I replaced the battery cables within the last year. I DID have a bad cable before (I'd get no power, and have to jiggle the negative cable). This is very different. I did clean the posts and terminals though, like you suggested just to be sure.
 
Medic2038 said:
I'd tried to answer above, didn't tag you though.

Anyway battery isn't more than a few years old (no more than 3). I have AAA so will call them out to test the battery today.

Also I'm in PA not Fl, so definitely am dealing with it being cold

I thought when I had a dead battery in the past, it at least tried to crank. I don't run any extras in my TJ so it's just an autozone type battery is in there now.

As far as bad connection. I replaced the battery cables within the last year. I DID have a bad cable before (I'd get no power, and have to jiggle the negative cable). This is very different. I did clean the posts and terminals though, like you suggested just to be sure.
Click to expand...
Ok...so it's colder...

And yes that battery could be done for in just a few years.

Take battery out, take battery to your closest advanced auto (or the like)
Have them test battery.

Something to keep in mind...

You could have a weak alternator as well which ultimately pushed your battery over the edge.

What I mean is your battery being older can't rejuvenate itself like it once did with a marginally performing alternator.
Normally your alternator if working proper will charge at around 14.18 volts. Something like that.
Every time you run it your battery is getting a good recharge.
If your alternator is putting out a fair amount less...it's not giving your battery a good recharge.
Add in the fact your battery has some age...extreme temperatures...it just can't rejuvenate itself on it's own anymore because it's not getting the amount of help it needs from the alternator.

Anyway just trying to save you time and aggravation and money out of denial.
We get all kinds of battery/no start conditions when temperatures go extreme. Extreme heat in summer, extreme cold... always pushes marginal batteries of today right off the cliff.
 
Rubicon88 said:
Ok...so it's colder...

And yes that battery could be done for in just a few years.

Take battery out, take battery to your closest advanced auto (or the like)
Have them test battery.

Something to keep in mind...

You could have a weak alternator as well which ultimately pushed your battery over the edge.

What I mean is your battery being older can't rejuvenate itself like it once did with a marginally performing alternator.
Normally your alternator if working proper will charge at around 14.18 volts. Something like that.
Every time you run it your battery is getting a good recharge.
If your alternator is putting out a fair amount less...it's not giving your battery a good recharge.
Add in the fact your battery has some age...extreme temperatures...it just can't rejuvenate itself on it's own anymore because it's not getting the amount of help it needs from the alternator.

Anyway just trying to save you time and aggravation and money out of denial.
We get all kinds of battery/no start conditions when temperatures go extreme. Extreme heat in summer, extreme cold... always pushes marginal batteries of today right off the cliff.
Click to expand...
So AAA came out and checked the battery, and said it was good.

CharlesHS said:
There is a wire and a cable that are connected to the starter; the cable goes from the positive on the battery to the starter solenoid and the wire that actuates the starter solenoid comes from the ignition switch by way of the starter relay.
Turn the ignition switch as if you are trying to start the Jeep and check what the voltage is on the wire that engages the starter solenoid while the ignition switch is held in the start position. IF there is no voltage check the 40A fuse 13 (PDC) and 20A fuse 20 (glove compt fuse block), then test terminals 1(start) &2 (run) on the ignition switch, check terminals the starter relay terminals B1 and B5 for voltage, to determine why you can jump the starter and solenoid, but cant crank with the ignition switch.
IF the fuses are good and there is no voltage going to the starter relay, then there is a good chance the contacts in ignition switch have gone bad OR the ignition switch harness could have over heated and melted. You will need to remove the plastic clam shell that surrounds the steering column to test and verify.
Click to expand...

I set my multimeter at 20dcv and put the contacts on the solenoid ignition terminal and got nothing (when she was trying to turn it on). I checked the fuses and the 30amp in the PDC looked like it might have been blown so I went and replaced that. Came back home and same issue.

I put the multimeter probes in the slots where the dash fuse (20), and no power when it's cranking.
I just replaced the ignition switch and actuator pin this weekend. It's obviously registering SOMETHING when the key is in, I get power and everything. The harness that connects to the ignition switch is in good shape (it's not melted or anything).
 
Medic2038 said:
So AAA came out and checked the battery, and said it was good.



I set my multimeter at 20dcv and put the contacts on the solenoid ignition terminal and got nothing (when she was trying to turn it on). I checked the fuses and the 30amp in the PDC looked like it might have been blown so I went and replaced that. Came back home and same issue.

I put the multimeter probes in the slots where the dash fuse (20), and no power when it's cranking.
I just replaced the ignition switch and actuator pin this weekend. It's obviously registering SOMETHING when the key is in, I get power and everything. The harness that connects to the ignition switch is in good shape (it's not melted or anything).
Click to expand...
What did their test of the battery say?
 
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