No threads in Jeep A-pillar windshield hinges

[Jeep Monkey]

Hi. I am new to this site, so please forgive me if I am posting this to the wrong forum or if this has been answered somewhere else. I searched and couldn't find an answer.

I have a 1999 Jeep TJ that I bought used probably about 15 years ago. It is a "toy" jeep and I drive it occasionally on weekends, maybe 2-3 times a month. Ever since I first bought it, it had a "cage" that went over the top of the jeep and was bolted to the A pillars in front and to the bumper in the back. I wanted to remove it and replace it with a light bar. I unbolted it and removed it and to my surprise, the top 2 holes on the A pillar that used to contain bolts have no threads. The bottom 2 do have threads - see 2 attached images. Now there were bolts that were screwed into the top 2 holes, so I am guessing that when I removed the 2 bolts, there was a piece of metal with threads behind them that fell or became dislodged or something.

I want to place new A pillar light mounts but want to use all 4 bolts on each side, not just the lower 2 per side. Is there an easy way to get access behind the top 2 holes to find the threaded metal bar? If I remove the metal piece with the hinge below the A pillar that has 4 screws, will that gain me access to the A pillar? I was thinking the other option is to use the bottom 2 holes that are threaded and to thread what metal is available in the top 2 holes using a tap and die. This is probably not the best way to do it, but I don't really see much of an option. The metal should be deep enough to hold 2 short bolts. The other hole on top that you see in the picture was probably drilled by the prior owner. I don't know what it is for.

Is this something that other people have encountered, or is it just a me issue

Thank you for any help and/or guidance.

help.

 

[WVJeep304]

The threaded portion should be inside the holes you have pictured in the metal behind the hinge plate. In other words, the actual windshield frame. Are you saying there's no threads inside the hole at all? Or were you just expecting threads in the outer hinge metal?

 

[macleanflood]

Some of those threaded holes are actually a nut plate that moves inside the windshield frame to allow for small adjustments.

Entirely possible you let the nut plate drop down.

Worst case you might need to completely unbolt the windshield to shake that plate up to a spot you can get a bolt threaded.

-Mac

 

[Jeep Monkey]

Thank you both for your replies.

So to reply to WVJeep304, there are no threads inside the hold at all. What Macleanflood says makes sense, there is no nut plate behind the 2 top holes in either side. It probably did fall down. Seems like a bad design for it to do that. But then again, my jeep is 27 years old, so who knows.

How can I get to the nut plate? Can I remove the windshield hinges, or do I have to unbolt the windshield to get to the plates? If so, how involved is that? Seems like a big undertaking...

Thank you.

​

 

[macleanflood]

Windshield is mostly off already.

Couple of bolts on the roll cage...also nut plates... generally with nut plates you want to keep one bolt in at all times. You can do this with long bolts and short bolts or cutting the head off a bolt.

Roll cage and this one nut and it'll fold down...that might be enough. Otherwise pull the rest of the torx from the hinge.

-Mac

 

[WVJeep304]

I must have gotten lucky on multiple occasions... Because I've had the same 3 bolts out that OP pictured at least 3 times and never had this issue. I knew there were nut plates in use somewhere, but didn't remember them being at that location. Come to think of it, when I replaced my windshield seal, I unhooked the rollbar and didn't have an issue there either. I guess I need to make sure I do adequate research when it comes to bolt removal before my luck runs out

 

[mrblaine]

I must have gotten lucky on multiple occasions... Because I've had the same 3 bolts out that OP pictured at least 3 times and never had this issue. I knew there were nut plates in use somewhere, but didn't remember them being at that location. Come to think of it, when I replaced my windshield seal, I unhooked the rollbar and didn't have an issue there either. I guess I need to make sure I do adequate research when it comes to bolt removal before my luck runs out

The nut plate for the 2 hinge screws in the side of the windshield frame is a rather terrible design. Or at least how it is held in place is. There are two smallish sheet metal fingers that are bent over the ends of the plate that hold it in place but allow it to move to adjust the windshield frame. What happens is folks push in really hard to keep the bit in the drive recess in the screw head and that pushes the nut plate inward and straightens out the fingers. The nut plate slides down and lands in the bottom of the hollow windshield frame.

 

[WVJeep304]

The nut plate for the 2 hinge screws in the side of the windshield frame is a rather terrible design. Or at least how it is held in place is. There are two smallish sheet metal fingers that are bent over the ends of the plate that hold it in place but allow it to move to adjust the windshield frame. What happens is folks push in really hard to keep the bit in the drive recess in the screw head and that pushes the nut plate inward and straightens out the fingers. The nut plate slides down and lands in the bottom of the hollow windshield frame.

That is good information to have. Definitely sounds like a horrible design.

 

[Jeep Monkey]

Thank you everyone for your help. I did not know there were nut plates back there, I thought they were just threaded. So, I'll try to fold the windshield down to see if I can get the nut plates out. If not, I'll take out the hinges. I saw that the torx on the hinges have locktite on them, so you have to heat them up. If I do all this, will I be able to get behind the windshield to get the nut plate completely out? Meaning take the nut plate to my work bench to clean it up, or is it sealed in the windshield frame even with taking out the hinges?

 

[macleanflood]

Sealed in the windshield.

-Mac

 

[JMT]

Can you use nutserts in this situation? Or does that eliminate the windshield fold down function?

 

[mrblaine]

Can you use nutserts in this situation? Or does that eliminate the windshield fold down function?

The reason there is a floating nut plate is to adjust the frame. The nut plate is behind oversize holes in the outer skin of the windshield frame. You could probably make the nutserts work, you just need to find a way to make sure the middle of that oversize hole is where you need them to be located.

 

[Jeep Monkey]

All of your comments are extremely helpful. They also give me some ideas. The reason I was trying to get the nut plate out is to clean the threads, but also the left one has a bolt in it where the head broke off. I figured if I could get them out, I can get the bolt out, clean the threads by re-threading them all. But it sounds like I won't be able to get the plate out. Seems like a poor design to me at least.

The nutserts idea may work if I can't get access to the bolt plate. I hadn't even thought of that. I was originally thinking of using a tap and die to thread the outer holes.

All this just because I wanted to change the light holder on top. I thought it would be an easy project

 

[any4xx]

In my case my threads on the plate were stripped. No clue how anyone accomplished that feat. But I ended up doing the nut-sert thing. I had to slightly grind the outer ridge on the nut-serts so that they would go flush with the windshield frame.

 

[mrblaine]

In my case my threads on the plate were stripped. No clue how anyone accomplished that feat. But I ended up doing the nut-sert thing. I had to slightly grind the outer ridge on the nut-serts so that they would go flush with the windshield frame.

The frame is similar to the rest of the sheet metal on the TJ, fairly thin and delicate. No need to grind, just set the nutsert and give it a little tap with a hammer and that will set it low. When the screw is tightened, that will pull it back flush to the back side of the hinge. We've done just that on armor installs 100's of times.

 

[Jeep Monkey]

So as a follow up. I did the nutsert thing, and it worked out perfectly. Still don't understand why there is a floating nut plate in the windshield. But it is what it is. I also used a tap and die to clean out the threads in the lower holes. Worked like a charm. Thank you everyone for their help!

 

[bty34]

So as a follow up. I did the nutsert thing, and it worked out perfectly. Still don't understand why there is a floating nut plate in the windshield. But it is what it is. I also used a tap and die to clean out the threads in the lower holes. Worked like a charm. Thank you everyone for their help!

View attachment 687811View attachment 687812

Did you install the nutserts through the hinge and windshield frame together, rather than just the windshield frame?

 

[Jeep Monkey]

I am assuming that the hinge is on the outside, and that is what I put them through. They don't crimp too deep. I installed a 3 inch bolt just to test them and pushed it up and down and the whole jeep moved, so I figured it was pretty secure. Whether that was the correct thing to do I am not sure, but that is what I did.

 

[WVJeep304]

I am assuming that the hinge is on the outside, and that is what I put them through. They don't crimp too deep. I installed a 3 inch bolt just to test them and pushed it up and down and the whole jeep moved, so I figured it was pretty secure. Whether that was the correct thing to do I am not sure, but that is what I did.

While a 3" bolt will make it seem secure, by installing the threads (nutsert) in the hinge and not the windshield frame, the only thing holding it in place is the length of the bolt. The nutsert should have been installed in the windshield frame so that when the bolt passes through the hinge, it threads into the nutsert, pulling the hinge & windshield together.

What you may have (probably) done is actually bonded the windshield frame and hinge together with the nutsert. It's probably what's holding everything together at the moment. That means the hinge can't be separated from the frame.

 

[Jeep Monkey]

Is that bad that the hinge can't be separated from the frame? It's probably a dumb question. I can always drill out the nutsert if needed, but what problem will it cause being bonded together?