NV3550 throwout bearing failure x2

RangerZ21i said:
My original throw out bearing failed around 80k miles. I used the Luk kit, Luk flywheel and an all metal throw out bearing. To me the time and effort required to get the clutch in and out I just as soon replace the $50 flywheel also.
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Amazon recommends these three items as a package deal when you look at any one of the three separately, so it must be a very popular combination. They can thank the forums for that, I'm sure.

Several reviewers of the Luk flywheel state that it does have the domed surface. I just can't tell where they are getting their information, or maybe they can tell when the have it in hand. Hard to say. I should probably go with the Mopar version but I'm not stoked about paying their exorbitant price.
 
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RitualHabitual said:
Amazon recommends these three items as a package deal when you look at any one of the three separately, so it must be a very popular combination. They can thank the forums for that, I'm sure.

Several reviewers of the Luk flywheel state that it does have the domed surface. I just can't tell where they are getting their information, or maybe they can tell when the have it in hand. Hard to say. I should probably go with the Mopar version but I'm not stoked about paying their exorbitant price.
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You will be fine with the the LuK flywheel. Another alternative is Sachs for $110.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0054JWF3C/?tag=wranglerorg-20
 
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I'd be looking at the clutch hydraulics too. The odds of losing 2 throw out bearings with no warning seems suspect to me. Every clutch that the pedal suddenly just went effortlessly to the floor was due to linkage issues. And a TJ uses a hydraulic setup eliminating most clutch pedal issues.
Again, 2 throw out bearings go out without a sound? And 2 throw out bearings without a warning? The odds of that are too slim for me to believe it. Twice in a row? Not impossible, but.....
And the need for a new clutch disk after how many miles? I'd want to see those parts myself. Before I pay the bill. It would be much more likely that either the shift fork was coming out of position, or the slave cylinder was slip8off the fork. Were the clutch fork, pivot, and spring changed out? If not then I would expect you to be back at that shop again very soon.
I could be wrong here. Won't be the first, or the last. But I would want to inspect every nut, bolt, washer, and piece that has been replaced. Down to the type of locktite used. Before the check book comes out.

And always, ALWAYS, get every piece of every job you have someone else do for you returned to you for inspection after they finish the job. You might be surprised how many fewer parts get replaced when you say this upfront.
 
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Goatman said:
I'd be looking at the clutch hydraulics too. The odds of losing 2 throw out bearings with no warning seems suspect to me. Every clutch that the pedal suddenly just went effortlessly to the floor was due to linkage issues. And a TJ uses a hydraulic setup eliminating most clutch pedal issues.
Again, 2 throw out bearings go out without a sound? And 2 throw out bearings without a warning? The odds of that are too slim for me to believe it. Twice in a row? Not impossible, but.....
And the need for a new clutch disk after how many miles? I'd want to see those parts myself. Before I pay the bill. It would be much more likely that either the shift fork was coming out of position, or the slave cylinder was slip8off the fork. Were the clutch fork, pivot, and spring changed out? If not then I would expect you to be back at that shop again very soon.
I could be wrong here. Won't be the first, or the last. But I would want to inspect every nut, bolt, washer, and piece that has been replaced. Down to the type of locktite used. Before the check book comes out.

And always, ALWAYS, get every piece of every job you have someone else do for you returned to you for inspection after they finish the job. You might be surprised how many fewer parts get replaced when you say this upfront.
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Thanks for this. Very good advice. I was thinking it was more of a linkage issue as well. The clutch wasn't showing any signs of needing replaced before it went out. No slippage, no trouble getting into gear, then boom, straight to the floor. I’ve only had it for a year and I don’t know when the clutch was last changed. I’ll post details on all of what was included when I have them.
 
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RitualHabitual said:
I think I might go with the Luk clutch kit and the Sachs flywheel. Does anyone know if either of these companies manufacture in the US?
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Sachs is mainly Germany/China, but go with what brands you feel most comfortable with. You did the research so go with your gut at this point.
 
Well, here is an update and somewhat of a resolution. I picked up 'ol green from my mechanic today and had him give me a thorough explanation of what was going on and what was done. The good news is that he did use the Luk clutch kit and he also used the all-metal throwout bearing rather than the Luk version with plastic/composite parts. The welding he did on the throwout bearing was in the locations indicated in the photo below where the shift fork contacts the throwout bearing (not my clutch, by the way, though that is the Luk TB).

He explained that the throwout bearing was twisting out of the shift fork, which was causing the disconnect and the the pedal going to the floor. The welding was to add girth to the connection point to prevent it from twisting out of the fork. I had already decided not to have him do any more work on it so I didn't press the issue further, but it sounds to me like the fork is worn and probably needs to be replaced. Anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

Anyways the clutch felt fine on the drive home, in fact it seemed to require less force to decompress the pedal so I'm wondering if something was done to improve the hydraulics as well. What remains to be decided is whether I want to roll with it as is, or if it's worth it to dig back in and replace the flywheel and fork now or wait on it. I think I'll drive it awhile and see how it feels before I make that decision.

I have to wonder after all this how many jeeps out there have had their flywheel resurfaced as a matter of course without having any idea. If I notice a difference in the shift smoothness during the decision making period I'll report back.

Thanks again for all the insight and support. This forum is an amazing resource!
IMG_7080.jpeg
 
Jerry Bransford said:
Even when there's nothing wrong with it and it's not a normally replaced wear item? When I pulled mine at 192k miles to convert to an automatic, the flywheel was in literally perfect condition and even the OEM Luk clutch disk was still in remarkably good condition.

Did I baby my clutch? Nope, the below clutch smoke pouring out of mine was a somewhat regular occurrence on some trails.

View attachment 144801
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I know it not considered a wear item but for the $$ in labor to drop the tranny I just as soon spend another $50. Probably be over cautious but wth.
 
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I happen to have a spare clutch, pressure plate, fork, 2 throw out bearings, fork pivot.
Am staring at them as I type this.
There is absolutely no reason to weld on a bearing. None. Nada. Zip. To put that kind of heat to a bearing is foolish (at best). If he had installed the throw out correctly with the spring installed it is virtually impossible for that bearing to rotate. Unless the fork is extremely worn in that area. And I'm talking extremely worn. And at that point the need to replace the fork would be obvious to a blind man. Seriously. A blind man would feel it and know it was shot. The fork pivot is a fairly large piece of metal with a synthetic (plastic) ball on the end the size of a big marble. I can see this wearing or breaking. It too would be obvious. It too is held to the shift fork by a firm spring. So it failing is possible, but the need to replace it would be unmistakable. And the retaining clip would be banging around in the bellhousing. I suspect this is what caused you to go from full clutch to no clutch instantly. The only other option would be the hydraulic linkage which would also be obvious.

My guess is the clutch fork pivot broke or wore down to the point the fork could come off leaving no fulcrum to push against. Most clutches I have seen use a metal pivot or actually have a grease fitting in them. The pivot was not replaced. Most likely the retaining spring broken. Slap some weld on the throw out bearing because if the fork slips off the pivot the extra movement could possibly (??) Give the fork enough room to move to allow the bearing to twist off the fork.
Now, to be fair, I do not have any way of actually seeing the condition of your parts as they were installed. But I see no other way to explain it. Considering he just put some weld on the bearing indicates the bearing was still good so this reinforces my opinion. Also, getting your flywheel resurfaced does not mean it needs replacement. If you don't have any issue with how the clutch feels while engaging and shifting then I would let it be (other than concern for how it was done and how it was reinstalled.

This is my OPINION. Based on 40+ years and having the full parts here to look at.
 
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If you were going to replace the clutch yourself using the clutch kit, would you also want to replace the release pivot, spring, and clutch fork?
 
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