Raceline beadlocks: question about spacers

[pc1p]

So on my first try, after torquing all the beadlock ring bolts down properly, I still got some gap between the ring and the wheel itself. I even used the existing 1/8” poly spacer that came with the wheels, but the ring was touching in some spots and not touching in others. After looking online some, it seems that this isn’t uncommon with thick-walled tires like the MT/R...

Round 2: I order 10 new ring spacers kits (5 wheels x 2 spacers per wheel which should give me ~1/4” - plenty to close the gap). Unlike the old ring spacers, the new kits are quarter-circles rather than a single solid spacer.

Unfortunately, it appears as though the OD of the (four) spacers is slightly larger than the ID of the tire. This is causing 2 issues. First, the bolt holes of the spacer are offset from the holes of the nutserts within the wheels. Pushing some out of the way and hand fitting a bolt in causes bending and buckling of the spacers themselves.

As a result of #1, when I don’t wedge the quarter pieces together, the circumference of the four combined quarter-spacers does not match the wheel, causing one end to overlap the other

I will need to contact Raceline in the AM to see what their suggestion is, but figured I’d pick your brains first.

Seems like I have 3 options:
1) trim the inner edge of the tires to make some room for the spacer
2) trim the outside edge of the spacer to fit inside the gap
3) shim the ring spacer below the edge of the tire

Maybe I need to sit out there and ponder some more, but I think #3 above won’t work since it will not make a seal against the inside face of the wheel, leading to leaks. This leaves me with #1 or #2.

My concern with #1 is obvious - screwing up an expensive new tire. My concern with #2 is that I don’t know if there is enough meat on the edge of the spacer to adequately trim while having enough strength to hold up.

What say ye?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

What procedure did you follow to torque the bolts? if the gap is not even they likely are not torqued correctly. Is the ring flat, or angled downward toward the middle of the wheel?

I just did a set, and you have to torque to 216 in pounds - over and over and and over and over. I think I hit every bolt 10 or 12 times. Takes forever.

 

[pc1p]

What procedure did you follow to torque the bolts? if the gap is not even they likely are not torqued correctly. Is the ring flat, or angled downward toward the middle of the wheel?

I just did a set, and you have to torque to 216 in pounds - over and over and and over and over. I think I hit every bolt 10 or 12 times. Takes forever.

Followed the typical 90° pattern - top, bottom, left, right then move over one bolt and repeat. First round it to get the slack out of the bolts, then snug it up some, then repeat 14,955 times until 18 ft-lbs is achieved at least 2 full cycles.

The reason for the the gaps, based on what I can see, is that the ring OD is larger than the ID of the tire causing the spacer to buckle in spots, preventing the ring from going flush.

 

[suicideking]

@mrblaine did mine recently, mentioned the holes didn't line up correctly.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Followed the typical 90° pattern - top, bottom, left, right then move over one bolt and repeat. First round it to get the slack out of the bolts, then snug it up some, then repeat 14,955 times until 18 ft-lbs is achieved at least 2 full cycles.

The reason for the the gaps, based on what I can see, is that the ring OD is larger than the ID of the tire causing the spacer to buckle in spots, preventing the ring from going flush.

Sounds right. I ran Spyderlocks for many years, and only switched because I needed to change the backspacing. Comparatively, I was quite disappointed as to the flimsyness of the ring.

 

[mrblaine]

@mrblaine did mine recently, mentioned the holes didn't line up correctly.

No, I mentioned that the threaded inserts were not pressed squarely into the holes so when you threaded in the bolts, they would not start and tried to cross thread. We had to take the first ring back off and then run a narrow diameter Allen head cap screw down into each one to suck the insert up the rest of the way to set it full depth and square to the hole. All of the holes in the rings lined up perfectly with the holes in the rim.

 

[mrblaine]

What procedure did you follow to torque the bolts? if the gap is not even they likely are not torqued correctly. Is the ring flat, or angled downward toward the middle of the wheel?

I just did a set, and you have to torque to 216 in pounds - over and over and and over and over. I think I hit every bolt 10 or 12 times. Takes forever.

Two things generally confuse folks about beadlocks. The final torque will almost never be achieved until the lock ring touches the rim. The second is every time you bring a bolt up to torque, you loosen the ones on either side of it.

 

[mrblaine]

Sounds right. I ran Spyderlocks for many years, and only switched because I needed to change the backspacing. Comparatively, I was quite disappointed as to the flimsyness of the ring.

If you ever do a set of Method, the pure softness of their rings is astounding that it ever works at all.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

No, I mentioned that the threaded inserts were not pressed squarely into the holes so when you threaded in the bolts, they would not start and tried to cross thread. We had to take the first ring back off and then run a narrow diameter Allen head cap screw down into each one to suck the insert up the rest of the way to set it full depth and square to the hole. All of the holes in the rings lined up perfectly with the holes in the rim.

I had that exact problem on at least two inserts on each wheel. It took me two wheels to figure out that trick.

 

[mrblaine]

I had that exact problem on at least two inserts on each wheel. It took me two wheels to figure out that trick.

We had maybe 2-5 inserts per rim that were set properly. I was not amused.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

This is what Blaine was referring to on the Racelines. See that bolt? It's supposed to be perpendicular to the mounting surface, and is the result of the insert not being pulled in straight. There is a slight lip on the inside edge of the surface, and if whatever tool they were using to seat the bolt got up on that lip, the insert would be cantered to the outside. Try to mount the rock ring like this and you cannot start the bolt. Easy to cross thread if you are not careful.

I mounted another wheel tonight and found 4 of these. Not nearly as bad as Blaine's experience, but still a pain.

After learning my lesson on this after wheel #2, on the last 3 I took the time to set every insert using a spacer - making sure it was set flat on the lower surface. After that, installing the ring is a piece of cake.

 

[pc1p]

Mine all appear to be fully seated (on the steel wheels, it looks like it is much easier to tell) - plus these wheels were used one before so they hopefully should be plenty seated by now

I hope to get ahold of Raceline today to see what I should do...

 

[suicideking]

Odd that this seems to be a common problem with the Raceline wheels. Would you say it's a manufacturing defect? Seems like at some point, the wheels should have just been sent back to them as defective.

 

[mrblaine]

Odd that this seems to be a common problem with the Raceline wheels. Would you say it's a manufacturing defect? Seems like at some point, the wheels should have just been sent back to them as defective.

Not that common. We've done countless sets of Raceline wheels and this is the first time we've run into it. It is also nothing that could be considered a defect. If they were the tiniest bit defective whatsoever, they would not be on your rig. Bead locks, how they go together and how they are built is not something you fuck around with. They are either perfect or they don't get put on a vehicle.

The only thing retaining your outer bead is that ring of bolts. They can NOT be compromised or sub par in any way whatsoever or you will die.

Also the reason many of the top converters quit doing them for street use. Too many customers ignored the rules and stuck load range E tires on with 80 psi for their bro dozers. 80 psi puts way too much force on the ring bolts and they start to fail. Raceline has a max psi you can run a tire at for that reason.

If you didn't want to mess with the bolt, you could seat the inserts the rest of the way with a good c-clamp. 'Tis nothing more than a minor annoyance and most assuredly not a defect.

 

[pc1p]

If you didn't want to mess with the bolt, you could seat the inserts the rest of the way with a good c-clamp. 'Tis nothing more than a minor annoyance and most assuredly not a defect.

Any advice on what I should do with my issue? I'm not having a nutsert issue, but rather a spacer issue (see way above for photos).

I'm thinking of bolting all the spacers together with long bolts and then taking the outer edge to the belt sander some. This should reduce the OD of the overall "ring" down a bit, allowing them to fit inside the ID of the MT/R better.

 

[mrblaine]

Any advice on what I should do with my issue? I'm not having a nutsert issue, but rather a spacer issue (see way above for photos).

I'm thinking of bolting all the spacers together with long bolts and then taking the outer edge to the belt sander some. This should reduce the OD of the overall "ring" down a bit, allowing them to fit inside the ID of the MT/R better.

The only spacers I have ever used are the two bolt versions you stagger from OMF. MTR's are always a problem though and we've had to trim off the air sealing edge pretty often on the bead.

 

[pc1p]

The only spacers I have ever used are the two bolt versions you stagger from OMF. MTR's are always a problem though and we've had to trim off the air sealing edge pretty often on the bead.

I was hesitant but leaning towards this option - just eyeing it up, I think even if I sand the edges of the spacers slightly to help, I don't think there's enough material to sand away that will fit inside the ID of the MT/Rs. I think regardless of what I do to the spacer rings, the tire bead will still need to be trimmed up some, so might as well trim up the tires and not worry about the spacer rings.

The Allied/Raceline spacers look like this BTW...

 

[pc1p]

Update!

I finally got ahold of someone at Raceline. According to the tech, he said no one has ever reported this problem to them (which I find hard to believe but so be it!). He agreed that there likely wasn't enough meat on the rings to significantly sand them down and suggested I take some material off the inner sealing edge - matching what my #1 option was and what Blaine suggested as well.

I ended up taking about 1/8" off around the outer edge - turning the taper into a flat wall of sorts. This allowed just enough room to get all the ring spacers stacked up nicely and bolted down.

The rings all sit flush and true...

I ended up ordering some chrome center caps as well since shipping was the same amount no matter what I had in the cart. I'll see if I like the bling - they didn't have any black caps in stock so I figured worst case is I'd just put a coat of black on these if I didn't like the chrome look. I'll see how it looks with the lug nuts but I'm thinking I may just keep them like this.

 

[mrblaine]

Update!

I finally got ahold of someone at Raceline. According to the tech, he said no one has ever reported this problem to them (which I find hard to believe but so be it!). He agreed that there likely wasn't enough meat on the rings to significantly sand them down and suggested I take some material off the inner sealing edge - matching what my #1 option was and what Blaine suggested as well.

I ended up taking about 1/8" off around the outer edge - turning the taper into a flat wall of sorts. This allowed just enough room to get all the ring spacers stacked up nicely and bolted down.

View attachment 225406

The rings all sit flush and true...
View attachment 225404

I ended up ordering some chrome center caps as well since shipping was the same amount no matter what I had in the cart. I'll see if I like the bling - they didn't have any black caps in stock so I figured worst case is I'd just put a coat of black on these if I didn't like the chrome look. I'll see how it looks with the lug nuts but I'm thinking I may just keep them like this.
View attachment 225405

I've only dealt with one set of MTR's in the last 10 years I haven't had to trim if that helps at all. What I find amazing is how easy a nice blade on a razor knife whips them right into shape.

 

[pc1p]

@mrblaine - I was actually worried my little blade wasn’t going to be sharp enough but it cut like butter! I used some soapy water to help clean it from time to time and it went a lot faster than I was expecting...