Re-drilling Knuckles?

[jeep_boss]

Hey guys! I'd love to get some feedback on a dilemma that I have with my Jeep's steering setup.

TL;DR - I replaced a bad set of TREs with a new Currie 9701 steering kit, not realizing that my knuckles were drilled out to around 5/8" (the Currie bolts are around 1/2" from the looks of it). The result is obvious: some noticeable lateral play when I turn the wheels. My dilemma is this: since the knuckles were already drilled out once, how bad of an idea would it be to have a reputable shop re-drill them to out (to 7/8") so I can fix the lateral play issues with tapered sleeve inserts? (The alternative being a new set of knuckles that will accommodate the smaller Currie links)

Back story...

I bought an '05 Rubi that I knew had some wonky steering issues. Not being afraid to turn a wrench and knowing just enough about the basics of Jeep steering systems, I quickly identified the root cause to be the TREs on the aftermarket (Moog) setup that was on there when I bought it.

I drove it down south (slowly) to a 4x4 parts store in Tacoma, WA to see if they sold and compatible TRE replacements. The guys at the shop took a long (~10 minutes) at my setup and told me what I already knew about the problem. They wound up talking me into a Currie 9701 + a steering stabilizer.

After getting the new system installed and doing an alignment, everything seemed better - but not perfect. I took it for several test drives that evening, gradually driving it more aggressively to test the new system and get a feel for the change in steering characteristics. It seemed safer than the previous setup.

It wasn't until the next afternoon that I realized there were potentially serious problems. My 20+ mile drive to work was slow that morning (traffic from hell). On my commute home, traffic was moderate - yet moving at 60-70mph. As I'm crossing the bridge on Interstate 90 (connecting Bellevue, WA with Mercer Island), there is a slight downhill grade and right dogleg curve. I start to turn with my mind on autopilot - negotiating the curve at ~60mph. My front wheels all the sudden jerk my vehicle towards the lane to my right, out of nowhere. Autopilot turns off in my head and I had to really work to get my vehicle under control - slowing down to ~35mph after all was said and done. I realize at this point that there is a problem.

Fast-forward 40 or minutes later, I pull into the driveway and get my wife to come out so she can shake the steering wheel while I look at the steering system. Right away, I see the lateral play of the TRE bolts and a destroyed rubber boot on the passenger side where the drag link connects.

To make matters worse, a week later I replaced the pitman arm with a new RE pitman arm that I ordered. In doing so, I had to drop the steering kit to remove the old arm and get the new one installed. I then realized that the castle nut on the drag link bolt is SPINNING and not coming off! So now I probably need to get that guy replaced as well

This Currie kit has been a curse since day #1. The thing that REALLY gets me fired up is the shop guy "veteran" that has installed hundreds of the Currie systems in the last 15+ yrs or so they claim, didn't notice that the castle nuts on my old kit were MUCH larger (27mm) than the castle nuts that come with the Currie kit (19mm). I would think that should have been a red flag that the Currie system wasn't going to be a perfect fit.

 

[mrblaine]

Hey guys! I'd love to get some feedback on a dilemma that I have with my Jeep's steering setup.

TL;DR - I replaced a bad set of TREs with a new Currie 9701 steering kit, not realizing that my knuckles were drilled out to around 5/8" (the Currie bolts are around 1/2" from the looks of it). The result is obvious: some noticeable lateral play when I turn the wheels. My dilemma is this: since the knuckles were already drilled out once, how bad of an idea would it be to have a reputable shop re-drill them to out (to 7/8") so I can fix the lateral play issues with tapered sleeve inserts? (The alternative being a new set of knuckles that will accommodate the smaller Currie links)

Back story...

I bought an '05 Rubi that I knew had some wonky steering issues. Not being afraid to turn a wrench and knowing just enough about the basics of Jeep steering systems, I quickly identified the root cause to be the TREs on the aftermarket (Moog) setup that was on there when I bought it.

I drove it down south (slowly) to a 4x4 parts store in Tacoma, WA to see if they sold and compatible TRE replacements. The guys at the shop took a long (~10 minutes) at my setup and told me what I already knew about the problem. They wound up talking me into a Currie 9701 + a steering stabilizer.

After getting the new system installed and doing an alignment, everything seemed better - but not perfect. I took it for several test drives that evening, gradually driving it more aggressively to test the new system and get a feel for the change in steering characteristics. It seemed safer than the previous setup.

It wasn't until the next afternoon that I realized there were potentially serious problems. My 20+ mile drive to work was slow that morning (traffic from hell). On my commute home, traffic was moderate - yet moving at 60-70mph. As I'm crossing the bridge on Interstate 90 (connecting Bellevue, WA with Mercer Island), there is a slight downhill grade and right dogleg curve. I start to turn with my mind on autopilot - negotiating the curve at ~60mph. My front wheels all the sudden jerk my vehicle towards the lane to my right, out of nowhere. Autopilot turns off in my head and I had to really work to get my vehicle under control - slowing down to ~35mph after all was said and done. I realize at this point that there is a problem.

Fast-forward 40 or minutes later, I pull into the driveway and get my wife to come out so she can shake the steering wheel while I look at the steering system. Right away, I see the lateral play of the TRE bolts and a destroyed rubber boot on the passenger side where the drag link connects.

To make matters worse, a week later I replaced the pitman arm with a new RE pitman arm that I ordered. In doing so, I had to drop the steering kit to remove the old arm and get the new one installed. I then realized that the castle nut on the drag link bolt is SPINNING and not coming off! So now I probably need to get that guy replaced as well

This Currie kit has been a curse since day #1. The thing that REALLY gets me fired up is the shop guy "veteran" that has installed hundreds of the Currie systems in the last 15+ yrs or so they claim, didn't notice that the castle nuts on my old kit were MUCH larger (27mm) than the castle nuts that come with the Currie kit (19mm). I would think that should have been a red flag that the Currie system wasn't going to be a perfect fit.

I have many sets of good knuckles if you need a pair which would be my preferred solution. I bought them as cores and have 75.00 plus shipping in them which is all I need to get back. If you want to use tapered inserts, they do work most of the time. I have some I had custom made that I weld in, but I only use them for my repairs or flipping the left side to raise the tie rod and flip it over to the top side of the steering arm.

The Currie kit is not a curse, you are the victim of a diagnostic mistake snowballing into other issues but not one single bit of the problem can be attributed to the Currie stuff. You install it in good knuckles properly and it will serve you well as it has done thousands of others.

Two part question- Does RE sell anything but a drop pitman and if not, do you have the dropped trackbar bracket to go with the new pitman? If so, good but be aware you can't flip the left side like I mentioned. If you don't have the dropped trackbar bracket on the frame, you need a stock pitman arm.

FYI, the Currie castellated nuts are 3/4" since they are 1/2-20 thread pitch. 19mm is a common interchange but they are not metric.

You are correct in your assessment of the idiot that installed the kit. My first course of action would be to get the rig back to them and ask them why they are trying to kill you and then tell them they need to correct their error. At that point I would probably toss a pair of knuckles on the counter and tell them to call you when they are done.

Technically they sold you a part unsuitable for your rig in it's current condition and they need to fix that. I would never make that mistake, but if I did, I would not hesitate to correct it with a good set of knuckles being installed at no cost to you for parts or labor.

 

[JP98]

^ X2 Buy the knuckles from @mrblaine and get the problem fixed correctly.

 

[jeep_boss]

First, thank you for the feedback! My apologies for not replying as I intended to do last night, I got caught up in a work related hair on fire situation that kept me up late. Here's my inline replies...

I have many sets of good knuckles if you need a pair which would be my preferred solution. I bought them as cores and have 75.00 plus shipping in them which is all I need to get back. If you want to use tapered inserts, they do work most of the time. I have some I had custom made that I weld in, but I only use them for my repairs or flipping the left side to raise the tie rod and flip it over to the top side of the steering arm.

I'm completely motivated at this point to replace the knuckles with an "unmolested" set. With the exception of the steering kit, the mods that were made to this Jeep appear solid. To be frank, the kit stood out like a turd in a punchbowl. Given how sloppy it was, I can't help but deduce that the integrity of the knuckles is also questionable.I'll PM you after I hit send to discuss another set, thanks for the offer!

Two part question- Does RE sell anything but a drop pitman and if not, do you have the dropped trackbar bracket to go with the new pitman? If so, good but be aware you can't flip the left side like I mentioned. If you don't have the dropped trackbar bracket on the frame, you need a stock pitman arm.

Yes, the dropped trackbar bracket was already installed. The replacement pitman arm wasn't actually RE branded, but it was an identical cast to the dropped pitman arm that was on there (prior to me swapping it out).

You are correct in your assessment of the idiot that installed the kit. My first course of action would be to get the rig back to them and ask them why they are trying to kill you and then tell them they need to correct their error. At that point I would probably toss a pair of knuckles on the counter and tell them to call you when they are done.

Unfortunately for me again, I'm the idiot who actually performed the installation. The 4x4 part store staff spent a lot of time looking at the setup that was on there - knowing full well that I was going to do the work, they talked me into purchasing the Currie system saying that the kit with an add on stabilizer would definitely resolve the steering problems.

Even though I took my time when I did the installation - I didn't have an extra set of hands to help me. It took a bit methodical strategy to get the kit installed on my own - I carefully used both my low profile 3 ton floor jack and a cheap transmission jack that I got from Harbor Freight to get the TRE bolts aligned. During the installation, I DID notice the (volumetric) size differences between the old and new castle nuts - side by side, they are very different in size. I had even shown the difference between them to my wife, questioning or not they were going to be durable enough to support my Jeep. Unfortunately, I never had them both next to each other while they were both unmounted, so I never noticed the differences in the inside diameters :-/

Technically they sold you a part unsuitable for your rig in it's current condition and they need to fix that. I would never make that mistake, but if I did, I would not hesitate to correct it with a good set of knuckles being installed at no cost to you for parts or labor.

This is where my blood starts to boil. I called them the afternoon that I discovered the problems. The jerk on the phone had a difficult time understanding what the problem was, in the end he demanded that I bring my Jeep down to their store so they could compare them side by side (43 miles one way on the worst interstate I have driven in the country). I managed to bump some things on my work calendar, and drove at 40 mph down the interstate to their store. When I arrived, I saw the salesperson that sold me the kit. I explained the situation to him, and he IMMEDIATELY tried up-selling me on a $1200 pair of knuckles. I declined and asked if they commonly drilled knuckles out and installed inserts, which he acknowledged was somewhat common for them to do for their customers. I had explained to him that I was going to need my Jeep for a trip I had planned in the mountains that week, the best they could do was get me an appointment for 2 1/2 weeks out. Seeing that they had no intentions of apologizing for the "oversight" and that they had zero intentions of providing a reasonable solution, I walked out before losing my cool.

Their corporate folks were not any better, they will not see my business again.