Rear Disc Brakes And Double Flared Stainless Lines

[Mike_H]

Part of my tub replacement project is to get all new brakelines run. I'm done with that, save the rear axle. I'm REALLY struggling trying to double flare the pre-bent stainless lines I bought. Here is the deal...I bought the kit from inline tubes. It's pretty good, but not perfect...the non-abs set is for drums, not discs. So, when I talked with support, they said I'd have to cut and re-flare the lines to make it fit my discs. They assured me that they anneal their tubing, so you CAN form the double flare. So, that's where I'm at. I have an OEM tools brake flaring kit from autozone (probably garbage) and I cannot get the bubble flare to form. It seems that the tube keeps pushing through the clamp. Got frustrated, and had to walk away for the night. I'm ready to plunk down some money on a decent double flare kit...if anyone knows of one? Ridgid? Mastercool? I don't want to spend 4-5 hundred bucks on anything, but if its 100? Sure. Bonus point to someone who knows where I might be able to buy one in a store on a Saturday, vs ordering online.

Also, Wanted to verify I have the soft lines to the calipers correct...They arch up WAY over the bleed ports in the calipers...so I'm second guessing my arrangement, even though that is how they came off and its what a google image search tells me. I'll page the brake expert... @mrblaine. Won't this arrangement trap air?

 

[AndyG]

You are tagging the right guy, @Claybirdd just installed his brakes and is ecstatic.

all the best
Andy

 

[PenultimateLap]

take a look at the K Tools flaring tool. Its the same tool as the Eastwood one, but is sold under different names, TGR, K-Tools International. can find it on Amazon for $160ish. it is a fantastic tool thats easier and more capable than the Rigid type tool. Its worth every penny. In fact you'll probably just sit in the garage thinking up jobs to use it on and trying to put flares on anything you can think of.

 

[someguysjeep]

you need a real tool for stainless lines. summit has 1 similar to K tools also. but they are both up to over 200 now.

 

[taylormade73]

I did my soft lines like that...no issues.

 

[Mike_H]

Well, I got it.

The clamp is the key. This morning, I remembered I had another saddle and clamp sitting in a tool box. Not even sure where they came from, but they are old and made in the USA (Imperial brand?). The clamp worked like a champ. It's a single flare kit though, so the saddle isn't quite long enough to fit over the bubble die, so I have to start the bubble with the Chinese saddle, then finish with the good one. But... For the two flares I need to do, it'll work.

 

[mrblaine]

Part of my tub replacement project is to get all new brakelines run. I'm done with that, save the rear axle. I'm REALLY struggling trying to double flare the pre-bent stainless lines I bought. Here is the deal...I bought the kit from inline tubes. It's pretty good, but not perfect...the non-abs set is for drums, not discs. So, when I talked with support, they said I'd have to cut and re-flare the lines to make it fit my discs. They assured me that they anneal their tubing, so you CAN form the double flare. So, that's where I'm at. I have an OEM tools brake flaring kit from autozone (probably garbage) and I cannot get the bubble flare to form. It seems that the tube keeps pushing through the clamp. Got frustrated, and had to walk away for the night. I'm ready to plunk down some money on a decent double flare kit...if anyone knows of one? Ridgid? Mastercool? I don't want to spend 4-5 hundred bucks on anything, but if its 100? Sure. Bonus point to someone who knows where I might be able to buy one in a store on a Saturday, vs ordering online.

Also, Wanted to verify I have the soft lines to the calipers correct...They arch up WAY over the bleed ports in the calipers...so I'm second guessing my arrangement, even though that is how they came off and its what a google image search tells me. I'll page the brake expert... @mrblaine. Won't this arrangement trap air?


View attachment 244486

I have the Mastercool, it struggles with the so called "annealed" stainless. I can get it tight enough that it won't move in the forming die, but then the tube is deformed enough that the AN olives have to be tapped down over the two ridges. Any less clamp pressure and the tube just squirts out the end of the die. Stainless is a pain in the ass to deal with.

No, the line like that won't trap air. We've run many like that with no issue.

 

[mrblaine]

Well, I got it. View attachment 244496

The clamp is the key. This morning, I remembered I had another saddle and clamp sitting in a tool box. Not even sure where they came from, but they are old and made in the USA (Imperial brand?). The clamp worked like a champ. It's a single flare kit though, so the saddle isn't quite long enough to fit over the bubble die, so I have to start the bubble with the Chinese saddle, then finish with the good one. But... For the two flares I need to do, it'll work.

That amount of clamp deformation is bad. I get it and it should be fine but none of the companies recommend it and I don't know how to stop it.

 

[mrblaine]

take a look at the K Tools flaring tool. Its the same tool as the Eastwood one, but is sold under different names, TGR, K-Tools International. can find it on Amazon for $160ish. it is a fantastic tool thats easier and more capable than the Rigid type tool. Its worth every penny. In fact you'll probably just sit in the garage thinking up jobs to use it on and trying to put flares on anything you can think of.

We shall see how it works compared to the Mastercool. I ordered the 45, if it good, I'll get the 37.

 

[qslim]

Well, I got it. View attachment 244496

The clamp is the key. This morning, I remembered I had another saddle and clamp sitting in a tool box. Not even sure where they came from, but they are old and made in the USA (Imperial brand?). The clamp worked like a champ. It's a single flare kit though, so the saddle isn't quite long enough to fit over the bubble die, so I have to start the bubble with the Chinese saddle, then finish with the good one. But... For the two flares I need to do, it'll work.

Mike I just went through this same bullshit replacing the lines on my new Dana 44. Mine ended up looking like that too, I was able to get the flare but the clamp fucked up the tube to the point where I could barely get the nut to go over it. I didn’t like the tube deformation so I basically used one length of tube for practice - kept cutting it back & reflaring until I got a feel for the sweet spot. I also squirted a little oil on the front of the tube, dunno if that made a difference or not.

 

[Mike_H]

Mike I just went through this same bullshit replacing the lines on my new Dana 44. Mine ended up looking like that too, I was able to get the flare but the clamp fucked up the tube to the point where I could barely get the nut to go over it. I didn’t like the tube deformation so I basically used one length of tube for practice - kept cutting it back & reflaring until I got a feel for the sweet spot. I also squirted a little oil on the front of the tube, dunno if that made a difference or not.

Yeah, I tried oil. On my "successful" attempt, I used anti-seize.

That amount of clamp deformation is bad. I get it and it should be fine but none of the companies recommend it and I don't know how to stop it.

I know. I don't like the pinched line either, but I don't know WTF to do about it. The rear axle lines have so many tight bends right near the fittings, I was afraid that something like the K-tool wouldn't work... The clamp looks like it needs about an inch and a half of straight section, plus the fitting.

I'll probably buy one tho, just to have on hand. I'm sure I'll need to replace the lines on my motor home someday, and no one is going to have a pre-bent kit for that!

 

[mrblaine]

Yeah, I tried oil. On my "successful" attempt, I used anti-seize.


I know. I don't like the pinched line either, but I don't know WTF to do about it. The rear axle lines have so many tight bends right near the fittings, I was afraid that something like the K-tool wouldn't work... The clamp looks like it needs about an inch and a half of straight section, plus the fitting.

I'll probably buy one tho, just to have on hand. I'm sure I'll need to replace the lines on my motor home someday, and no one is going to have a pre-bent kit for that!

Don't buy one until mine gets here and I test it.

 

[Mike_H]

Don't buy one until mine gets here and I test it.

I was looking into the hydraulic set-ups too... Master cool has a universal kit that does single and double flares, plus dies to form the QD ring on fuel lines. I thought that might be handy to have around.

 

[mrblaine]

I was looking into the hydraulic set-ups too... Master cool has a universal kit that does single and double flares, plus dies to form the QD ring on fuel lines. I thought that might be handy to have around.

I have that one, it has the same issue with stainless.

 

[Mike_H]

Finished with the rear axle brake lines. What a pain in the ass. It took way longer than it should have for a "pre-bent" kit. The front fit pretty well though, so I guess it's not all bad.

After I took this picture, I test fit my shocks...I had to bend the lines up under the spring perches a bit more to get them to clear the shock bodies. But everything fits now.

 

[qslim]

Finished with the rear axle brake lines. What a pain in the ass. It took way longer than it should have for a "pre-bent" kit. The front fit pretty well though, so I guess it's not all bad. View attachment 244532View attachment 244533

After I took this picture, I test fit my shocks...I had to bend the lines up under the spring perches a bit more to get them to clear the shock bodies. But everything fits now.

Yeah that shit took me 3 days. I thought I’d be proactive & replace the rear hoses on the axle I got, but they were crimped into the hardline. Then I thought we’ll screw it I’ll just get new hardlines too. Nope, don’t make em pre-bent anymore! No biggie, I’ve flared lines before.... those tight bends were a real motherfucker to get right. I finally ended up using a wire coat hanger to mock up the shape, this was after a half dozen trips to Napa to get more line. Pain in the ass.

 

[WSS]

I bought a Rigid flaring kit way back. It does SS without having to over crimp. Have used it a few times on the TJ, I did a ABS delete and the rear disc conversion with it. No leaks yet. I can get a model/part number if anyone needs it. Cost was around $130 IIRC.

 

[Rubicon88]

We used to fight with those junk flare tools.
Garbage. Absolute trash.
In cases like yours we'd take pliers to the wing nuts and crank those bitches down.

Then after a prayer crank down more.

Then flare.

We've much better equipment today thank Christ!!

 

[Mike_H]

We used to fight with those junk flare tools.
Garbage. Absolute trash.
In cases like yours we'd take pliers to the wing nuts and crank those bitches down.

Then after a prayer crank down more.

Then flare.

We've much better equipment today thank Christ!!

I broke the ears off one wing nut, switched it to a regular 5/16 nut, then broke the hinge pin! It's still good to clamp in the vice and use to file the tubing square...

 

[Rubicon88]

I broke the ears off one wing nut, switched it to a regular 5/16 nut, then broke the hinge pin! It's still good to clamp in the vice and use to file the tubing square...

You need a nail...to replace that pin.

Been there done that.

Trust me that garbage tool we've had around the block.

I thick nail that barely fits in place of the pin hole is what you need. It has a much more sheer strength than that garbage pin. We've had pins break, wing nuts, etc...never a nail after pin replacement.

As I said though now we have much better equipment in the shop. Best purchase I made for the business was new flaring equipment. At least from the perspective of aggravation to appreciation.