Regular vs non ethanol (premium) fuel

[Bighammer]

Recently I was having a conversation about the pros and cons of different fuels. I’ve been running regular gas (ethanol added) but I’m not sure what the Jeep manual recommends.

One thing about ethanol gas is that it makes your miles per gallon much worse. And it causes a noticeable loss of the much sought after horse power. So, even though it’s cheaper by the gallon, you’re going to be using more of it when compared with premium gasoline (non-ethanol) because of the poor performance.

Has anyone tested this theory with their Jeep? I’m guessing that it might be a wash as far as cost, but with premium you can get the added benefits of better, more stable fuel; and likely a little more power and mileage. I have not tested this yet.

 

[steelhd]

One thing about ethanol gas is that it makes your miles per gallon much worse.

Not true

And it causes a noticeable loss of the much sought after horse power.

Not true

... with premium you can get the added benefits of better, more stable fuel; and likely a little more power and mileage. I have not tested this yet.

Also not true.

There are reasons to dislike alcohol in gasoline but your imagination is running away with itself. If alcohol had zero energy content then E10 would still have 90% of the energy content of regular gas. But alcohol does have energy content, it has around two thirds the BTUs in regular gas. Published figures show that E10 (10% ethanol) has about 98% of the energy content of regular gas. In your Jeep you aren't going to see mileage that is "much worse" and you won't notice a 2% horsepower loss with the seat of your pants.

Premium may have benefits for some engines but not the engines in our Jeeps. It won't give you more power or better mileage. It will make your wallet lighter though.

 

[pagrey]

Premium means octane rating to me, I wouldn't run high octane gas if that's what is being asked. I think we have E10 and E85, I don't even know if E10 is obvious at the pump around here. I probably run it and don't even know. I wouldn't run E85, I don't think the Jeep is designed for it.

 

[HornedToad]

Recently I was having a conversation about the pros and cons of different fuels. I’ve been running regular gas (ethanol added) but I’m not sure what the Jeep manual recommends.

One thing about ethanol gas is that it makes your miles per gallon much worse. And it causes a noticeable loss of the much sought after horse power. So, even though it’s cheaper by the gallon, you’re going to be using more of it when compared with premium gasoline (non-ethanol) because of the poor performance.

Has anyone tested this theory with their Jeep? I’m guessing that it might be a wash as far as cost, but with premium you can get the added benefits of better, more stable fuel; and likely a little more power and mileage. I have not tested this yet.

I have made the trip from Sacramento to Salt Lake City at least a dozen times in my lj. All the gas from Sacramento through and past Reno (at least where I stop) is the normal ethanol added gas. Then when I hit Elko there is a Maverick with a blue nozzle 100% “clear gas” option that I always choose to fill with. I can tell you there is a difference in power. It isn’t terribly dramatic but I can pull all the remaining hills in 5th without downshifting a 2nd time to 4th. Also I usually get 280-295 miles on that fill up which is 30-40 miles more than previous tanks.

Edit: I believe the ethanol free gas I used was 87 octane

 

[Hokahay]

I won't bore everyone with the hard data but I do have data.

I ran alternating fulll tanks of rec fuel and 10% ethenol. A full three rotations for 6 tanks total. All with same terrian and driving style.


I kept track of mieage and cost.

I found that the rec fuel did indeed give better MPG. But the dollars per mile was significantly worse.


So it did not make economic sense to run rec fuel all the time.

 

[TheBoogieman]

I agree with steelhd. I drive 365 days a year for my job, the exact same route and about 100 miles daily. I've tried everything and there is ZERO noticeable difference. I did notice that so called "winter blend" fuel gets me around 30-40 miles less per tank. I chalk that up to slightly longer 2am warm ups.
p.s. I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I AM an expert.

 

[Mudflat]

Premium means octane rating to me, I wouldn't run high octane gas if that's what is being asked. I think we have E10 and E85, I don't even know if E10 is obvious at the pump around here. I probably run it and don't even know. I wouldn't run E85, I don't think the Jeep is designed for it.

Sometimes the ethanol % limitation is printed right on the gas cap (‘Not the case with my ‘06 TJ). However the owner’s manual says to restrict ethanol concentration to 10%.

 

[Vtx531]

I can tell you that here, pumps that dispense gasoline which contains ethanol are required to be labeled with a notice that says it contains ethanol and the percentage...
...however pumps that dispense 10% or less ethanol are not required to have the notice.

All the gas here is 10% ethanol but it just doesn't say it anymore. I assume most other states are the same.

E85 vehicles gets about 25-30% less gas mileage. E10 should get about 3-4% worse. I wouldn't consider that "much worse". There should be no noticeable reduction in performance with a fuel injected engine. It will adjust to add the small percentage fuel more it needs automatically.

 

[williambmac]

Premium means octane rating to me, I wouldn't run high octane gas if that's what is being asked. I think we have E10 and E85, I don't even know if E10 is obvious at the pump around here. I probably run it and don't even know. I wouldn't run E85, I don't think the Jeep is designed for it.

No, your jeep isn't designed for E85. And it will make it run like shit. Also cause P0171 and P0300 codes.

I've run Pure fuel vs E10 in my TJ and there is a difference. I get 30-40 miles more per tankful with Pure fuel.
Unfortunately, the cost for Pure fuel negates the mileage improvement.

 

[Fulton_Hogan]

I run only ethanol-free fuel in my Unlimited. It isn't an everyday driver, so the tank may go 2 to 3 weeks between refills. I've seen other fuel tanks which sit for periods of time get residue from the ethanol and I don't want to add that into my Jeep. I pay extra for that fuel, sure; but to me that's the cost of ownership. I wouldn't run 91 (E10) or 93 octane (E10) fuel either because those have no added benefit when the engine doesn't require it.

Now, E10 vs E85 fuels; I have seen a distinct difference in their mileage performance. I had a 2017 RAM 1500 rental (that had placards all over saying it was fine with E85 fuel) and drove round-trip from the western part of Florida's panhandle to Savannah. On the way to Savannah I used regular 87 (E10) octane and made it to about 30 miles south of my destination on a single tank. For the return trip (same roads, same driving conditions, same usage of cruise control) I bought E85 because it was cheaper and wanted to try it out since the vehicle advertised it so much. I'd never had anything that took E85 and I was very surprised at the result. The E85 tank needed to be refilled when I was still 80-90 miles from my destination. I don't remember the exact computer-calculated mileage, but on the E10 fuel it got higher-20s MPG, like 26+ MPG. It impressed me actually. On the E85 it got low 20s. It's a sample size of two, I get it, but I remain not a fan of E85 fuels.

 

[Gilaguy23]

Clear fuel is great for stuff that sits a lot like marine,generators, toys maybe etc. Been 10 years since I bought a Honda gen. I change out the fuel once a year and it still runs like new when I fire it up using Clear only. Ethanol is hygroscopic which holds water in it. I have yet to see a FI system get tainted by Eth gas. Will it help with mileage and power, a little but its not worth the extra cost in my experience or usage in the atv's a ford 460 or the jeeps. Perhaps in Oregon the gas is so crappy like their lefty hack politicians that using clear is worth the expense.

Examples of Hygroscopic Materials​

• Zinc chloride, sodium chloride, and sodium hydroxide crystals are hygroscopic, as are silica gel, honey, nylon, and ethanol.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

there are stations that sell ethanol-free gas around here (not nearly as many in Colorado...they must have a stronger corn lobby).

Non-ethanol is consistently about $0.40 more per gallon than E10...which only makes sense if suppliers were getting paid to take ethanol and cut their gasoline with it. I know, supply and demand, etc. Just boggles my mind that somebody would pay 15% more for 2% more energy content, claiming they do it for hp and mpg.

Now if you've got an older fuel system with material compatibility concerns, that's another story, but I don't think that's the case for most E0 consumers.

 

[BlueC]

I run only ethanol-free fuel in my Unlimited. It isn't an everyday driver, so the tank may go 2 to 3 weeks between refills.

This is what I do as well, but my tank often last twice as long. I also store other cars that can sit for months without running. All ethanol free gas in these vehicles and power equipment. If it's driven/run regularly, or it was built after the early 2000s, then I'll burn the regular stuff.

I learned the hard way about the "stability", or lack there of, of ethanol blended fuels. When ethanol blends first hit the market, I ran it in everything and believed as steelhd posted above. Many problems and hundreds of dollars later, I figured it out.

And yes, E-free gas vs 10% ethanol gas you will see a difference in MPG.

 

[steelhd]

stability", or lack there of, of ethanol blended fuels. When ethanol blends first hit the market, I ran it in everything and believed as steelhd posted above. Many problems and hundreds of dollars later, I figured it out.

And yes, E-free gas vs 10% ethanol gas you will see a difference in MPG.

I said there were plenty of reasons not to like E10. It can draw water if it sits a long time, it can damage old engines and fuel systems (not our Jeeps though), using a food or feed product for fuel is stupid, and etc. I pay the premium price for non- ethanol fuel to run in my boat, saws, mowers, trimmers, and such.

As for mileage it's more likely that wind direction or tire pressure caused the difference you think you saw.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

my gas mileage is so all over the place it would be impossible to nail down differences even across multiple tanks. The average has been 12.4 but it's been everywhere from 10-15 without any clear predictor with respect to city vs highway, etc. The only one I KNOW i can explain is the 16.6 I got while losing 4,000 feet of elevation.

 

[ColoJeep]

I smile a lot reading this posts, Personally I fall in with the ethanol is the devil camp.
My situation may be far different than most, but the difference in performance and mileage is real once
you actually put your engine under load and work it hard.
A Fuel injected engine masks a lot of the drive ability issues that are really a pain in the ass with a carb.
If you are rolling around in town on asphalt in your TJ commuting to work you won't notice much difference.
But start working the engine or hot rodding your street rod around, and the thought of using a fuel that attracts water
and is more corrosive starts to lose it's appeal.

Follow the money, the corn lobby pressures Washington and Senators yield to their constitutes to get on the government teat.

I say use the fuel you like and get the best results from. I wish the government would stop mandating what fuel I can buy.
But in the big picture, fuel is the least oppressive thing we should be concerned with.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Agree with the above 'ethanol is the work of the devil' camp and California just loves it. Ethanol wrecked the fuel systems of two of my lawn mowers. I gave up replacing their carburetors and ended up with a Toro electric lawn mower.

In our Jeeps there is zero benefit to running a higher than the recommended 87 octane. The ONLY thing more octane does is make the gasoline harder to ignite in high compression engines so the higher compression can't cause it to ignite prematurely which is what causes pinging and knocking. If you installed a high compression engine or new pistons/heads that raised the compression level you'd need to run a higher octane gasoline. But with the stock engine there's no benefit to the octane whose sole job is to help it resist premature combustion caused by being compressed more than it was designed for... which won't happen with the stock engine.

And all US gasolines come with sufficient fuel system cleaner additives to keep the injectors and lines free of deposits. It's the law that they do as required by the EPA back in the 80's. So nope, running a higher octane than required like 89, 91, etc. isn't going to boost performance or cause the engine to run any better or cleaner.

And if you live at a high altitude, you can run an even lower octane like 85 and not lose any performance. That's because fuel doesn't get compressed as much at high altitudes so not as much octane is required to prevent it from causing pinging or knocking.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

And if you live at a high altitude, you can run an even lower octane like 85 and not lose any performance. That's because fuel doesn't get compressed as much at high altitudes so not as much octane is required to prevent it from causing pinging or knocking.

I knew it's fine for my engine, but I gripe every time I buy 85 because I live in one of the lowest-fuel cost areas in the country so I pay less for 87 than I pay for 85 in the more expensive mountain states.

 

[JEEPCJTJ]

Here's my version of 'ethanol is the work of the devil.'

My 20 yr old two cycle snow blower seemed to be on it's last legs the last couple of winters. The primer bulb had dry rotted and fell off so I used starting fluid but that and a new spark plug just didn't seem to help. For as long as it took to crank it with the electric starter I figured it wouldn't be too long before that fell off because one of the bolts that held it on was headless for some reason and not easy enough to get to to drill out and replace. When spring came I forgot about all that, ran it dry and put it away.

Last summer I was led by a friend in a CJ5 to the only gas station not too far from me that has non-ethanol fuel. It's all he runs in that Jeep. I didn't notice a difference in my TJ but I did go back to get some some more so I wouldn't have to run everything dry to be stored all winter. Hopefully that turns out to be a success. The non-ethanol that was left was poured into the snow blower. I'm still using starting fluid instead of the primer but it starts like it's brand new. It takes about 3 seconds of cranking to get it going and I've even been able to restart it several different times by just pulling on the rope. It's probably been 5 yrs since that worked.

 

[ejay]

Ask me how I know what ethanol does to some Ducati tanks?

https://www.bellperformance.com/blo...Manufacturer-Gets-Sued-Because-of-Ethanol-Gas
For my part, I'll run 91 or 92 ethanol free every now and then. I do notice slightly higher MPG. Does it equate to savings? Not sure based on the cost. I do know for sure that when I ran my CBR F2 for several years as my only means of transportation when I ran 92 it gave me 30 more miles per tank.