RV Towing Rant

Tranz Zam said:
Most people towing with modern trucks totally disregard GVWR. The amount of trucks I see every day on the highway pulling large campers, construction equipment, or multi car trailers is insane.

They're capable of doing it. As long as you're not totally reckless, and you're not running commercials plates you should be fine.
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There's also some sleight of hand for registration reasons. My 2007 Ford F350 had a GVWR of 11,200#. In California, it was/is common to get the 10,000 GVWR package (no charge), with absolutely no change to the truck, that resulted in lower registration fees. That's the way it was explained to me.
 
SoCalGlide said:
There's also some sleight of hand for registration reasons. My 2007 Ford F350 had a GVWR of 11,200#. In California, it was/is common to get the 10,000 GVWR package (no charge), with absolutely no change to the truck, that resulted in lower registration fees. That's the way it was explained to me.
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They still offer this. Some states registration is based on the actual curb weight of the truck such as CO, but here in WI we also pay for the higher GVWR every year on the registration. I was tempted, but opted to not so that I can stay 100% legal. Thankfully RV registration is only $15/year regardless of the weight or else I'd be paying around $400/year for a normal trailer. :ROFLMAO: Makes it much cheaper to have a trailer with living quarters than a truck camper and trailer.
 
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toximus said:
Technically not according to the DOT if the GCWR is over 26,000 and it's not an RV. That would be a CDL load.
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Yes, but I'm talking about people moving big weight with trucks that have private plates on them. You'd be amazed at the amount of trucks around here pulling massive trailers with regular passenger plates on them.

Not that I'm suggesting anyone overload their tow vehicles or skirt commercial vehicle laws. Just saying it happens every day.
 
Nightmare9 said:
So when I purchased my 2006 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax, I thought I knew what it would tow. But the information given by Chevy is nearly useless.
My Truck had a 5th Wheel towing capacity of like 15,000 lbs.
But what they don't tell you is:
The truck weighs 7000 lbs
The truck's GVWR is 9200 lbs
That leaves 2200 lbs for the passengers, cargo and pin. So if you count 4 passengers x 154 (the standard American Adult size :ROFLMAO: ) you have 1584 max pin weight.
A 15k 5th Wheel has more like 2500 lbs on the pin, so thanks Chevy.

They have fixed MANY of these problems in the last 15 years by just increasing ALL the ratings for Ford, Chevy and Dodge.

Now that we are looking for a motorhome, I'm running into the same bullshit.

2020 Jayco Alante 26X
GVWR - 16000
GCWR - 23000
UVW - 14453 - This is the vehicle with full fuel and propane
Water Capacity - 53 gal (442 lbs)

GVWR - UVW - Water = 1105 lbs

This 28' 5" RV sleeps up to 8, but with just 4 PEOPLE (x 154lbs each) you have 489 lbs leftover for EVERYTHING ELSE including hitch weight.

There is 7000lbs leftover for the towing, but if you put 500 lbs on the hitch you literally can't put ANYTHING else in the entire coach.

WTF?

The 2020 Jayco Alante 27A
GVWR of 18,000 lbs
GCWR - 23000
UVW - 15263 - This is the vehicle with full fuel and propane
Water Capacity - 72 gal (600 lbs)

GVWR - UVW - Water = 2137 lbs
Minus 4 passengers (616 lbs) = 1521 lbs

600 lbs of pin weight with a 5921 lb Box trailer (including the 4500 lb Jeep)

1521 - 600 = 921 lbs leftover on the trailer and this can be added to the difference between the GVWR and the GCWR.

I can either haul food, pots, pans, bedding, etc OR water.

Am I correct or am I missing something?

Link for the specs (Post #7) : https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/entegra-vision-27a-question-564613.html
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned that directly relates to your situation is weight distribution hitches.

Typically you have 2 different tongue weight ratings, one with and one without a weight distribution hitch. If there is only one listed chances are it is the rating without a weight distribution hitch.

The distribution hitch divides the total tongue weight between the trailer axles and the tow vehicle so depending on how tight you set up the hitch bars a 500lb tongue weight could effectively only add 250lbs to the tow vehicle.
 
"Modern trucks " may be the issue. Our low tech 1980 K-20 Chevy with the C6P option weighs 5500 lbs and has a 8600 lb GVWR.
that gives you 3100 lbs for payload , people and crap. I guess our truck dosen't have enough leather, power windows, heated seats,
or doors to forget it's an actual truck with a usable legal rating. Most " modern " trucks are fucking big cars with a 5' trunk and no trunk lid. :ROFLMAO:
 
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I owned a 5th wheel, so I never really checked out the Weight Distribution Hitches. I know they use some physics voodoo to transfer some of the load to the front axel.

It is also my understanding that they will not work on an RV.

But overloading the rear axel doesn’t seem to be a problem from what I’ve seen so far.
 
Nightmare9 said:
I owned a 5th wheel, so I never really checked out the Weight Distribution Hitches. I know they use some physics voodoo to transfer some of the load to the front axel.

It is also my understanding that they will not work on an RV.

But overloading the rear axel doesn’t seem to be a problem from what I’ve seen so far.
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Voodoo...:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
They don't technically shift weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle. The leverage applied lifts the back of the truck back up allowing the front end to come back down to where it should be, leaving approximately the same weight on the front axle as there would be without a trailer hooked up.

Here's a decent video that explains it.

There's other benefits to using one than just reducing the load on the rear of the tow vehicle. They reduce bounce on rougher roads and help to control trailer sway (some more than others).

Just thought I would toss that info out there since it hadn't been discussed..
 
Some of the original ads for the EAZ Lift Weight Distributing hitch used a front wheel drive Olds Tornado with no rear wheels towing a trailer. I think this was from a Popular Mechanics article.

1644661001766.png
 
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So we found an RV last week. Picked it up on Tuesday when the banks re-opened.
It's a little smaller than I would like, but I guess we will see how it goes.
2017 Thor Motor Coach Quantum GR22 (24' overall) on the E450 Chassis, which is hard to find apparently.

Not THAT much bigger than my Dmax
IMG_1546.jpg


The E450 Chassis gives it:
GVWR - 14,500
GCWR - 22,000
I plan to fill up the gas and get an accurate weight. But the CCC is pretty high. Even with full water and 4 adults, I should have over 3,000lbs for cargo and hitch weight.
IMG_1537.jpg


So everything is great? Right??? Not so fast. The hitch is rated for 8,000 lbs of towing, but the FUCKING tongue weight is only 500lbs. HOW THE F? Standard tongue weight should be between 9% and 15% of the total trailer weight. So at a MINIMUM, the hitch should say 800lbs. I'm not sure if this is an error, but more BS.
IMG_1556.jpg


This is the hitch on my Dmax: 1000 lbs for a 7500 lb trailer (13.3%)
IMG_1542.jpg


I still need to find a trailer, but if I'm towing about 7500 lbs, I don't know if I should/could get away with only 500lbs of hitch weight.
 
Nightmare9 said:
So we found an RV last week. Picked it up on Tuesday when the banks re-opened.
It's a little smaller than I would like, but I guess we will see how it goes.
2017 Thor Motor Coach Quantum GR22 (24' overall) on the E450 Chassis, which is hard to find apparently.

Not THAT much bigger than my Dmax
View attachment 312611

The E450 Chassis gives it:
GVWR - 14,500
GCWR - 22,000
I plan to fill up the gas and get an accurate weight. But the CCC is pretty high. Even with full water and 4 adults, I should have over 3,000lbs for cargo and hitch weight.
View attachment 312617

So everything is great? Right??? Not so fast. The hitch is rated for 8,000 lbs of towing, but the FUCKING tongue weight is only 500lbs. HOW THE F? Standard tongue weight should be between 9% and 15% of the total trailer weight. So at a MINIMUM, the hitch should say 800lbs. I'm not sure if this is an error, but more BS.
View attachment 312613

This is the hitch on my Dmax: 1000 lbs for a 7500 lb trailer (13.3%)
View attachment 312615

I still need to find a trailer, but if I'm towing about 7500 lbs, I don't know if I should/could get away with only 500lbs of hitch weight.
Click to expand...

What did you ever find out regarding hitch weight?
 
Not much yet on the hitch. My tire guy told me to check out U-Haul. That was pointless, they dont even have an E450 in their system. They won't do anything beyond a bolt-on kit.
 
Very common, that's why most people with C class MHs flat tow, eliminates tongue weight which most don't have enough CCC left for anyway. Anyone looking at trucks and motorhomes should be aware that the salesman won't know this stuff and if they do they will not bring it up, all they want is the sale. When we were looking I brought my 2002 SRW CCLB 7.3 4x4 Superduty and the salesman looked over at it and said I could tow anything on the lot. BS. The truck is so heavily optioned it weighs 8,400 lbs with a full tank, 2 people and suitcases with a 9,900 lb GVWR leaving only 1,500 lbs for pin weight.
 
Rich1961 said:
I see you are in SoCal. Ca has a license requirement for a 5th wheel with a GVWR over 15k. For a 5th wheel trailer, over 15k and you are required to have the Non Commercial Class A Drivers License. A Travel Trailer over 10k requires the Non Commercial Class A also. I took my test with a 13k Dually and a 15,350 GVWR 5th wheel. Most people do not know this, and most of the trailer dealers are not informing the buyers of this. The 26k commercial rating does not apply to RV Trailers for personal use in Ca.

My 5th wheel has a yellow sticker much like our trucks do, which shows the weight as it left the factory, and available payload.
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My sister had to get the class A for her horse trailer. I guess the highway patrol in California is pulling over the horse trailers with living quarters in them. They know they are overweight
 
NskLJ said:
My sister had to get the class A for her horse trailer. I guess the highway patrol in California is pulling over the horse trailers with living quarters in them. They know they are overweight
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Yep, a horse trailer with living quarters is not an RV, so the commercial A License is required in Ca because those trailers are over 10k GVWR.
 
B1Toad said:
Very common, that's why most people with C class MHs flat tow, eliminates tongue weight which most don't have enough CCC left for anyway. Anyone looking at trucks and motorhomes should be aware that the salesman won't know this stuff and if they do they will not bring it up, all they want is the sale. When we were looking I brought my 2002 SRW CCLB 7.3 4x4 Superduty and the salesman looked over at it and said I could tow anything on the lot. BS. The truck is so heavily optioned it weighs 8,400 lbs with a full tank, 2 people and suitcases with a 9,900 lb GVWR leaving only 1,500 lbs for pin weight.
Click to expand...

Same here with a 04 2500 Duramax. Getting the hubs repacked during a trip on our 03 5th wheel and the wife decided to look at other 5th wheels. Yeah, the old salesman looked at my truck and said the same thing.
 
Rich1961 said:
Yep, a horse trailer with living quarters is not an RV, so the commercial A License is required in Ca because those trailers are over 10k GVWR.
Click to expand...

Yes and the highway patrol is wise to the weight, they know the living quarters push them over.
 
Nightmare9 said:
So we found an RV last week. Picked it up on Tuesday when the banks re-opened.
It's a little smaller than I would like, but I guess we will see how it goes.
2017 Thor Motor Coach Quantum GR22 (24' overall) on the E450 Chassis, which is hard to find apparently.

Not THAT much bigger than my Dmax
View attachment 312611

The E450 Chassis gives it:
GVWR - 14,500
GCWR - 22,000
I plan to fill up the gas and get an accurate weight. But the CCC is pretty high. Even with full water and 4 adults, I should have over 3,000lbs for cargo and hitch weight.
View attachment 312617

So everything is great? Right??? Not so fast. The hitch is rated for 8,000 lbs of towing, but the FUCKING tongue weight is only 500lbs. HOW THE F? Standard tongue weight should be between 9% and 15% of the total trailer weight. So at a MINIMUM, the hitch should say 800lbs. I'm not sure if this is an error, but more BS.
View attachment 312613

This is the hitch on my Dmax: 1000 lbs for a 7500 lb trailer (13.3%)
View attachment 312615

I still need to find a trailer, but if I'm towing about 7500 lbs, I don't know if I should/could get away with only 500lbs of hitch weight.
Click to expand...

Old post I know but I really like that Duramax. One of the best years/colors.
 
B1Toad said:
Very common, that's why most people with C class MHs flat tow, eliminates tongue weight which most don't have enough CCC left for anyway. Anyone looking at trucks and motorhomes should be aware that the salesman won't know this stuff and if they do they will not bring it up, all they want is the sale. When we were looking I brought my 2002 SRW CCLB 7.3 4x4 Superduty and the salesman looked over at it and said I could tow anything on the lot. BS. The truck is so heavily optioned it weighs 8,400 lbs with a full tank, 2 people and suitcases with a 9,900 lb GVWR leaving only 1,500 lbs for pin weight.
Click to expand...

be very cognizant of this fact. Salesman are clueless. More importantly, 99% don't own an RV of any kind.
If you're looking for an RV, and you find something you like, insist on a PDI = Pre-delivery inspection. If you don't know what to look for, HIRE a RV inspector. It will be worth every penny. Then tell the salesman/person, you'll come back and sign the paperwork AFTER all the things on the repair list are fixed. AND there will be a repair list, guaranteed = If the salesperson says "we'll fix it AFTER we do the paperwork", go find a new dealer.
The market is now flooded with RV's. You can probably find a nice used one for a LOT less money than new.
I KNOW there are many used Thor Super C's ( Omni & Magnitude ) with less than 5,000 miles on them. These people haven't done the first oil change.
Good luck, if you guy have any questions about a RV, Im not a genius, but I do know more than most
 
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