Soldering battery cable and why it is very bad
- Thread starter mrblaine
- Start date
OP
We commonly use 3.
1st is what is commonly referred to as the Thomas and Betts style. I use these from Channellock brand.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004SBDI/?tag=wranglerorg-20
2nd are the ones for terminals with the barrels that have strain relief crimp sections for the insulation.
Not sure of the quality on these as the ones I use are from West Marine.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GFLWKTT/?tag=wranglerorg-20
Last one is for the terminals with seals like the Weather Pack. Lots of harness pin kits use a similar crimp.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002CCAEJ6/?tag=wranglerorg-20
Although I agree with crimping battery cables and other high current cables, more often than not I see 2 major errors that people make when soldering wires.
The first is that soldering needs to be properly done. It is not dripped over the wires. You heat the wires from one side and allow the solder to flow in to the wires. Removing air and properly bonding to the wires. Of course, the wires need to be mechanically connected properly first. Flux is not an option, it is a requirement to ensure the wires are clean. Oxidized or dirty wires will make a solder.fail.
The second error I see is using the wrong type of solder. I have about 4 different compositions of solders in my toolbox. It is critical that a more flexible solder is used in engine harnesses vs audio harnesses.
Although crimping has never failed me, using the proper tools is key. I have a 20+ year old pair of Klein linesman pliers that have a double crimp built in. I have seen way too many people squeeze a crimp with pliers or upside down. That is a recipie for a failed crimp down the road.
Net is, pick your poison but do it right.
The first is that soldering needs to be properly done. It is not dripped over the wires. You heat the wires from one side and allow the solder to flow in to the wires. Removing air and properly bonding to the wires. Of course, the wires need to be mechanically connected properly first. Flux is not an option, it is a requirement to ensure the wires are clean. Oxidized or dirty wires will make a solder.fail.
The second error I see is using the wrong type of solder. I have about 4 different compositions of solders in my toolbox. It is critical that a more flexible solder is used in engine harnesses vs audio harnesses.
Although crimping has never failed me, using the proper tools is key. I have a 20+ year old pair of Klein linesman pliers that have a double crimp built in. I have seen way too many people squeeze a crimp with pliers or upside down. That is a recipie for a failed crimp down the road.
Net is, pick your poison but do it right.
I used to crimp with a simple multi tool stripper/crimper. I now use a nice ratcheting crimper and my crimps are more consistent and solid.
Still my favorite tool dealing with electrical wiring is my panduit cable tie gun. So much better than side cutters.
Still my favorite tool dealing with electrical wiring is my panduit cable tie gun. So much better than side cutters.
I have been using the same tool now for over 30 years, hands down much better than side cutters
Big Dan
Member
I would hope that if anybody is curious about this they would simply take the time and read what the factory has to say about it. I only post because some people read about this and jump to the conclusion that all solder repairs are bad when this is not true. The majority of the Jeeps wiring is small gauge wire and solder repairs are just fine and often completely invisible after they are complete. If you like crimps then use them. If you were taught to solder properly there is nothing wrong with that either. The factory recommends it so don't think it's something you need to change if you already know how to do it. I don't think the factory suggests soldering the high current conductors, I hope nobody reads that into what was posted, I wasn't very clear to begin with. The PDC connection on my Jeep bolts on and I would simply replace the entire cable as a unit. Obviously in this case somebody messed up the repair.
@Big Dan My father is the Metallurgical Engineer so I will try to explain to the best of my "layman" ability. When he talks about these things, it usually sounds like an episode of The Peanuts when the teacher is talking...
All of this assumes you have made a proper mechanical connection before soldering and not disrupting that mechanical connection during the soldering process (heating, flowing, solidifying).
There are different types of solders, the primary being lead and lead-free. There are also different solder alloys within each of these categories. The goal would be to select a solder that is not only right for the application but that can withstand fatigue. Fatigue comes in 2 primary forms - Thermomechanical (heating and cooling cycles), and Vibration and Cyclic Mechanical fatigue (fast vibration or slow repetitive movement). Obviously, a solder joint in an engine bay suffers far more vibration and thermal changes so a solder that can better withstand this is needed. I use a 63/57 tin/lead with 1.1% rosin flux for these connections. But this solder comes at a higher price tag, and is harder to find than a typical 60/40 tin /lead solder, so I use it sparingly. I use a 60/40 for interior soldering (car stereo) that wont be subjected to as much thermal cycling and vibration as something inside the engine bay. It is cheap and easy to find.
The main point is not to use something like a plumbing solder just because you have it lying around. Choose the best solder for the job, make a proper mechanical connection, don't rely on the flux in the solder, don't disturb the connection during the soldering process, and protect the joint once you are done with proper heat shrink.
There are no guarantees with the lifespan of your connection but once you can solder well, you will know if the joint you made is good. The only way to completely test a crimped connector is to essentially pull it apart, thereby destroying it.
Not digging at either method. I regularly use both.
OP
Well, the same is true for a properly crimped connection. Once you learn how to do it, you don't need to pull it apart to test the viability and it will be very evident that no issues will occur.
True with the caveat you made of knowing you've made a proper crimped connection. I've never had a crimp fail on me.
I think the key with either is to do it properly and use the right tools (as mentioned earlier). Too many YouTube videos of sloppy soldering and crimping. For those on this forum that are new to either method, don't blindly follow any video you find. Figure out how it's done right then practice it on spare wire before you solder/crimp a critical connection on your vehicle.
I just picked up this one and another one like it for a wiring project coming up. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045CUMLQ/?tag=wranglerorg-20
OP
The quantities show an interesting math failure I see quite often on Amazon. If you buy 2, the multiple should be 1 doubled or a slight discount for volume. It should never be done in such a way as to add a 50 dollar penalty for volume purchases.
I see that frequently on Amazon as well. When it happens I just buy multiple of the single item instead of the more expensive bulk price.
OP
Yep, I do the same. However, it is not always the single. Sometimes you can buy 3 of something cheaper than any other quantity. Hopefully it is something you can use 3 of.
Big Dan
Member
So, I get that terminals should be crimped. Is the preferred method for joining wires also crimping and then heat shrink?
What is used? Uninsulated butt connectors?
What is used? Uninsulated butt connectors?
OP
For non butt connector terminals, it is rare that the extra bulk of adhesive lined heat shrink is an issue. The only time I get picky about uninsulated butt connectors is when I am splicing several wires next to each other and I need to keep the bulk down. But, that may be mitigated with a different butt connector brand since the ones I use have very robust heat shrink on them.
I do use some uninsulated ring terminals and heat shrink for odd sizes like 3/8" rings for 16-18 gauge wire commonly used on relays and power and grounds for the trigger side.
Coming from an embedded background my habit has been to solder. My battery vented and corroded the terminals connected so I soldered new terminals on and went on my merry way.
Queue months later when I'm driving through some hills at night with the GF and my headlights are dimming and getting brighter with the bumps and so I stop and turn off the engine. Everything looked fine but then the engine wouldn't start.
Turns out, over time and heat the cables desoldered from the lugs and the only thing holding it together was the heat shrink. Vice grip crimping and I was back on the road. But with a new lesson learned.
Queue months later when I'm driving through some hills at night with the GF and my headlights are dimming and getting brighter with the bumps and so I stop and turn off the engine. Everything looked fine but then the engine wouldn't start.
Turns out, over time and heat the cables desoldered from the lugs and the only thing holding it together was the heat shrink. Vice grip crimping and I was back on the road. But with a new lesson learned.
So I'm going to be replacing my battery terminals coming up here, and am probably going to go with something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X36RILW/?tag=wranglerorg-20
I was 100% going to solder them before I read this thread! Good info, y'all. Can anyone recommend a crimping tool that will get the job done but doesn't cost a fortune? I took a look at the tools mentioned above, and it looks like they are for a bit smaller gauge wire, or will those channel locks work?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X36RILW/?tag=wranglerorg-20
I was 100% going to solder them before I read this thread! Good info, y'all. Can anyone recommend a crimping tool that will get the job done but doesn't cost a fortune? I took a look at the tools mentioned above, and it looks like they are for a bit smaller gauge wire, or will those channel locks work?
OP
Typical. No one really agrees on which is best, solder or crimp. Well, that isn't quite true, those that know, understand why soldering is bad and crimping is good. Those that don't know, solder.