Sound system advice

isu2815

isu2815

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I know there was a thread about this a week or two ago but I'm also planning to upgrade my sound system. Below is what I'm planning on...thoughts?

Headunit option #1
Headunit option #2 (will require double-din bracket)
Front Speakers Polk MM1 5.25
Soundbar Polk MM1 6.5

Thinking about adding one of the compact subs from either Kicker, Pioneer, Kenwood, or Alpine and putting in it my rear seat (similar to what Rob did).

Will I need a small amp to adequately power all of this?

I'm not that experienced with car audio work but used to IT-type wiring so I think I'll be able to figure it out with a little guidance/advice.
 
I am a new TJ owner but I can help a bit since I used to be a warranty manager for a car audio retailer. I never added systems to my vehicles but I know a few things. Also, I have the stock 2 speaker set up and its horrible so I've been looking myself too.

In my opinion, the absolute best looking HU could find is the Clarion M508. I posted pictures on another thread but if you look up #clarionm508 on IG you will see a couple install pics. If you go to the ClarionUSA profile there's a few more pics. I just think it belongs in the dash of the TJs. It is also water resistant!

You will also definitely need an amp for those speakers. If not you are just wasting your money on them.

I also plan on going with polk for my speakers since they are water resistant as well. I will go with the DB series though. The MM is the higher end model and I feel its a waste of money with the poor acoustics of our TJs. Specially with the top down. With that said, most people would have a hard time telling them apart if played thru the same HU and amp.They are both good sets.

If you get an amp make sure you match the RMS wattage to the speakers. Remember both the MM and the DB models have 4ohms impedance so look at the amp's power rating at 4ohms.

If you do go with a sub, the power ratings are bit more involved. There is single voice coils and double voice coils at different impedance ratings. The box volume must also be within range to sound the best. I can answer more questions if you have any. I myself will be adding a 10" Polk sub underneath the rear seat.
 
The sub that @Rob5589 used is a powered sub in its own enclosure. You'll still need to wire it similar to wiring in a separate amp.
 
The Polk MM series 5.25" speaker has a 92 dB Sensitivity rating which means it is more than sensitive enough to be driven to a good sound level even with a stock radio amplifier. Too few people, even audio shop employees, understand what the Sensitivity rating is all about. It basically describes how much power is required to drive the speaker to a specified dB level. A speaker with an 89 dB Sensitivity rating would require twice the amplifier power to drive to the same dB sound pressure level (SPL) as a speaker with a 92 dB Sensitivity rating would. That MM's 92 dB Sensitivity rating is higher than probably 98% of the car audio speakers being sold.

Pay no attention to its 300 watt max peak power rating, that's not the same as how much power it requires to be driven to a good loud volume. In other words, you don't need an amplifier with a 75-100 RMS watt per channel rating for those particular speakers.

The Sony MEXGS820BT puts out an honest 40 RMS watts per channel which is twice as much as the double-din XAV-AX100 does at 20 RMS watts per channel. Pay no attention to Amazon's 4x55 watt rating for the XAV-AX100 which is a misleading Peak rating, not its RMS rating which is, again, only 20 watts RMS per channel.

I'd go for the far more powerful MEXGS820BT if it were me. Far less trouble mounting it too. That MEXGS820BT puts out more than enough power on its own at 40 RMS watts per channel to fully drive those MM series speakers.
 
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The MM speakers are rated at 100 watts RMS. I think it will be a waste of money to spend $400 in speakers and then run them at 40 watts RMS with a HU. They will sound a lot better than stock though.
 
GTboosted said:
The MM speakers are rated at 100 watts RMS. I think it will be a waste of money to spend $400 in speakers and then run them at 40 watts RMS with a HU.
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This is from not understanding how wattage, power, and sound pressure levels work. Few people don't understand that with a speaker with a decent Sensitivity rating, you would/should never actually be putting out the entire amplifier's rated RMS power when listening to music. You'd be hard pressed to even sit inside the Jeep with the amp turned up enough to put out 25% of its rated power with speakers with the proper Sensitivity rating. They will be playing LOUD with just 10 RMS watts being sent to the speakers.

You never drive a speaker to its maximum RMS power rating in a normal listening mode. I'm not talking about competition events where the goal is to drive everything to max power where you couldn't actually listen to it for long without literally suffering permanent ear damage.

Yes I have some expertise in this, both in formal EE education and practical experience. I built my first stereo amplifier from scratch in probably 1964 and built my first acoustic suspension speakers about then too.
 
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I understand that the higher the sensitivity the louder they play per wattage. Generally speaking RMS ratings is for CONTINUOUS power. Lower end manufacturers inflate these numbers. Polk is usually good with their rating so I do believe they can handle the 100 watts(reason for their $200 price tag per pair). But there is distortion when things get maxed out. A quality 100 watt RMS per channel amp will make these speakers sound great if properly tuned to about 60-80 percent output.

They will be VERY loud though but that is the point for these expensive speakers. To sound good even at higher power ratings. If he is not going to power them to even half their potential I see it as a waste of money.

I honestly think that DB series is a better choice with or without an added amp. They are less than half the cost and have similar power and sensitivity ratings.
 
I agree the DB series of speakers would be a better choice.

Of course RMS is continuous power, that is by definition what the RMS power rating is for. Wattage figures that are commonly exaggerated include peak, effective, peak-to-peak, music power, etc. but RMS is by definition not something that is exaggerated by mainstream manufacturers since an RMS rating comes from a very precises continuous measurement which is an industry standardized method of measurement.

And again, a 100 RMS watt amplifier is not needed simply because a speaker has a max 100 RMS watt power rating. That's a myth propagated by those who know a little about audio but not quite enough... like those I have run into in car stereo shops/departments who also like to push battery jumper cable gauge wiring for speaker wiring. Clueless types who only learned from what their buddies told them.

You'd NEVER get even close to having a 100 RMS watt amplifier putting out 100 watts RMS into a speaker rated to 100 RMS watts. Again... again... even 20 RMS watts would drive those speakers with their 92 dB Sensitivity rating to a level you couldn't sit inside the Jeep listening to. Fact.

I'm done here, I've stated my case and recommendations.
 
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I respectfully disagree. Its NOT a myth that you need an amp for speakers like that. If they will be too loud, then simply get cheaper speakers. No reason to spend a bunch of money on any high power speakers. My whole reasoning on this subject has been the cost not whether they will be excessively loud or not sound good.

Also about the RMS......I worked for a company that had about 2 or more pallets worth or returns each day, amounting to a hundred or more individual returns. All of it was car audio. I saw a lot of brands that inflated the RMS ratings and burnt and blown speakers would come in everyday due to false ratings. It is standardized but it doesn't mean anything unless they have a CEA rating. Even then there is little enforcement.
 
GTboosted said:
I respectfully disagree. Its NOT a myth that you need an amp for speakers like that. If they will be too loud, then simply get cheaper speakers. No reason to spend a bunch of money on any high power speakers. My whole reasoning on this subject has been the cost not whether they will be excessively loud or not sound good.
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Are you serious??? You don't replace good speakers with cheap speakers when good speakers are "too loud". Jeez... turn the gain/volume down. This is the kind of frustrating lack of rounded experience and technical knowledge I ran into too often whenever I had the misfortune of having to deal with car audio store employees. Few knew much more than how to impress teenagers and make the sale to provide max thump power for cruising the boulevard.

I'm done with this subject, we are unable to communicate at the level I am comfortable with.
 
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Ok your done but I will respond because you seem to be insinuating that I dont know what I am talking about. I never disrespected you or anything.

All I am is saying is that there is no need for those speakers without an amp. It's like putting race slicks on a stock Civic for a drag race. It's a WASTE of money. Like I said earlier, I never had an aftermarket system because I do not like very loud music. I usually upgrade my stock paper speakers to low power but high quality speakers that is all. I'm not trying to impress teenagers.


And just because you said I cant communicate at your level just think about this. Is it a wise to recommend to buy those $200 pair of speakers that can handle 100 watts each just to run them on a Sony HU that will push no more than 20-30 watts before it starts distorting? Why not buy quality lower power speakers?

edit: forgot to add
I've tested thousands of car audio components so I know what speakers sound like. You don't buy high end speakers to run them on a HU. Just like you wouldn't buy high end home theater speakers without upgrading the amp too. If you don't like it loud, don't buy them. It's not about up selling an amp. Its about not wasting your money.
 
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GTboosted said:
Ok your done but I will respond because you seem to be insinuating that I dont know what I am talking about. I never disrespected you or anything.

All I am is saying is that there is no need for those speakers without an amp. It's like putting race slicks on a stock Civic for a drag race. It's a WASTE of money. Like I said earlier, I never had an aftermarket system because I do not like very loud music. I usually upgrade my stock paper speakers to low power but high quality speakers that is all. I'm not trying to impress teenagers.


And just because you said I cant communicate at your level just think about this. Is it a wise to recommend to buy those $200 pair of speakers that can handle 100 watts each just to run them on a Sony HU that will push no more than 20-30 watts before it starts distorting? Why not buy quality lower power speakers?

edit: forgot to add
I've tested thousands of car audio components so I know what speakers sound like. You don't buy high end speakers to run them on a HU. Just like you wouldn't buy high end home theater speakers without upgrading the amp too. If you don't like it loud, don't buy them. It's not about up selling an amp. Its about not wasting your money.
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I agree that running these Polk speakers with the OEM head unit is a waste, but they can be run off most aftermarket head unit's internal amps, like Kenwood, Alpine and Pioneer. I generally do not recommend other head unit brands as these three brands have a slew of products with many different feautres that will work for the average person not looking for a rock star system. These brands all work well, and there are good units for under a $100.

The MM522s are rated at 92db, at 1 watt / 1 meter. My rule of thumb is you want an amplifier that can get the speakers to hit 105db. When calculating this, you add 3db to the sensitivity rating and double the watts.

1 watt = 92db
2 watt = 95db
4 watt = 98db
8 watt = 101db
16 watt = 104db
32 watt = 107db

In theory, a head unit that has 20 watts per channel would be the minimum I would consider.

With an underpowered amplifier clipping can occur, so while a 20 watt head unit can work, I would ideally want a minimum of 40 watts on these MM522s. I will be installing the 652 speakers soon, driven by 60 watts.

Sensitivity rating does not tell you the quality of sound. It only indicates how effectively your speakers convert power applied to them into volume. Materials and manufacturer play a big role. Polk has a solid brand name so one can assume their specs are close/accurate.

Also, to save a few bucks, Polk has the DB series, DB522. Half the price of the MM522. The extra $100 for the MM is for marine grade, different materials and larger tweeter. Sensitivity is the same.
 
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skrelnik said:
I agree that running these Polk speakers with the OEM head unit is a waste, but they can be run off most aftermarket head unit's internal amps, like Kenwood, Alpine and Pioneer. I generally do not recommend other head unit brands as these three brands have a slew of products with many different feautres that will work for the average person not looking for a rock star system. These brands all work well, and there are good units for under a $100.

The MM522s are rated at 92db, at 1 watt / 1 meter. My rule of thumb is you want an amplifier that can get the speakers to hit 105db. When calculating this, you add 3db to the sensitivity rating and double the watts.

1 watt = 92db
2 watt = 95db
4 watt = 98db
8 watt = 101db
16 watt = 104db
32 watt = 107db

In theory, a head unit that has 20 watts per channel would be the minimum I would consider.

With an underpowered amplifier clipping can occur, so while a 20 watt head unit can work, I would ideally want a minimum of 40 watts on these MM522s. I will be installing the 652 speakers soon, driven by 60 watts.

Sensitivity rating does not tell you the quality of sound. It only indicates how effectively your speakers convert power applied to them into volume. Materials and manufacturer play a big role. Polk has a solid brand name so once assume their specs are close.

Also, to save a few bucks, Polk has the DB series, DB522. Half the price of the MM522. The extra $100 for the MM is for marine grade, different materials and larger tweeter. Sensitivity is the same.
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Well said from someone who understands it.
 
All I know is the sound I get out of my speakers is euphoric. The Kicker amp powering the Kicker sub is a tremendous difference over the stock garbage subwoofer too.
 
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Well, I have modified my plan with all of these recommendations and what I found in a previous thread by badlieutenant and his head unit. Again all advice is much appreciated.

Headunit
M201 Jeep Wrangler Media SatNav 2003-06
Clarion M508 Marine AM/FM digital media receiver with Bluetooth and USB/AUX/MP3

Speakers
Polk DB652 UltraMarine Dynamic Balance Coaxial Speakers, 6.5"
Polk Audio DB522 DB+ Series 5.25" Coaxial Speakers

Sub/Amp combo
Compact powered sub (Kicker, Alpine, JBL, Pioneer, Rockford Fosgate) How do I choose?
Matching small amp to go with sub - will this be enough to power the speakers? The amp should power itself, since it is powered, correct?


 
I am by no means a sound guy nor do I know anything about it. I am going off what a friend who does sound systems recommended I get for my jeep. I plan to get this amp and sub since I don't want to invest a whole lot on this and he said it will be a balanced system with this size sub.

Pioneer GM-D9605
Pioneer TS-SW2002D2
 
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The head unit and Polks will work well.

Either the powered sub or the amp with sub will work well. You can’t go wrong with either.

I used a powered sub bc I wanted to save space and get a good overall balanced system. If I wanted to go bigger I would have done a separate amp and boxed sub.

Any of those powered subs will do. Just research each and decide based on your budget.
 
JMT said:
The head unit and Polks will work well.

Either the powered sub or the amp with sub will work well. You can’t go wrong with either.

I used a powered sub bc I wanted to save space and get a good overall balanced system. If I wanted to go bigger I would have done a separate amp and boxed sub.

Any of those powered subs will do. Just research each and decide based on your budget.
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If I get a powered sub...is that little amp not necessary? Will the speakers be adequately powered? Again, I have little-to-no car audio knowledge.
 
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