Steel VS Aluminum

[Kyle_W]

Didn't find a thread on this on the forum with the search function - I tried - so making a thread instead.

I want to build my own rear bumper / tire carrier: the first thing that comes to mind is "what should it be made of?" I personally prefer steel. But, in the age of expensive gas and everything lighter = better, what are ya'll's thoughts?

Quality steel is much stronger than aluminum; aluminum is 60% lighter than steel; steel won't gouge if you hit something; aluminum will never rust. Etc. etc.

Cost really isn't an issue, I just don't know if switching over to the dark side (aluminum) really is worth the weight savings?

 

[Blackout]

You may want to check out the dirtworx rear bumper and tire carrier combo. I ordered it with a cb antenna mount and a hi lift jack mount for about 275. The guy builds them in his backyard and they are made as you order. You can also ask him to make it unique just for you. It comes bare metal, you will have to coat it yourself. But Im happy with the product. You can also tow with it.

But if you were to build a bumper Id say go aluminum, it may cost more but it will not rust and its lighter than steel.

 

[Blackout]

If you want to check it out in person ill be in North Austin this weekend and we could meet up. My Veterans group is having a mod party at an offroad shop and you can come by and hang out.

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[Kyle_W]

You may want to check out the dirtworx rear bumper and tire carrier combo. I ordered it with a cb antenna mount and a hi lift jack mount for about 275. The guy builds them in his backyard and they are made as you order. You can also ask him to make it unique just for you. It comes bare metal, you will have to coat it yourself. But Im happy with the product. You can also tow with it.

But if you were to build a bumper Id say go aluminum, it may cost more but it will not rust and its lighter than steel.

View attachment 11802

I have a communicated with him before a while ago when I was in the market for a front bumper - he indeed does good stuff and I'd always rather support a local guy any day! ...unless I was given free poison spyder stuff...

The only thing about aluminum that I'm iffy about, is what if someone rear ends me? I think having a steel bumper in that situation would be hands down better than an aluminum bumper.

And, I appreciate the offer! I wish I could go, but I'm working in Houston at the moment.

 

[Blackout]

I have a communicated with him before a while ago when I was in the market for a front bumper - he indeed does good stuff and I'd always rather support a local guy any day! ...unless I was given free poison spyder stuff...

The only thing about aluminum that I'm iffy about, is what if someone rear ends me? I think having a steel bumper in that situation would be hands down better than an aluminum bumper.

And, I appreciate the offer! I wish I could go, but I'm working in Houston at the moment.

True, I guess it just comes down to what you want. The bumper I have is really light and gets the Job done. The one I really wanted was the one made by ace engineering. But I didn't feel like dropping a grand on a rear bumper. Lol

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[derekmac]

If you are planning on building it yourself, do you have the equipment to weld aluminum? If you're welding 6061 T6, the areas that have been welded will loose about 80% of their T6 strength, and will need to be re-heat treated to bring it back up to T4 or T6.

7075 T6 is about equal in strength to steel. It's not as easy to machine or work with as 6061 though, and it's also more expensive. You also won't want to weld it. It'll loose its temper, and if you re-temper it, the welds will probably crack.

And while aluminum can't rust, it can corrode. A lot of people don't believe they could have problems, but I've seen enough aircraft components that were badly corroded to know better. Chances are you'd be fine though.

 

[Kyle_W]

True, I guess it just comes down to what you want. The bumper I have is really light and gets the Job done. The one I really wanted was the one made by ace engineering. But I didn't feel like dropping a grand on a rear bumper. Lol

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

I looked at their rear tire carrier as well. It's completely badass. However, $1,000 is a loooooooot of money.

How much does your Dirtworx weigh? 110 pounds? Did your Jeep feel any more sluggish once you put it on?

@derekmac, that's very very informative, thank you! I didn't know that welding aluminum was more difficult than steel.
And yes, all earth metals corrode, just aluminum corrodes slower.

I really want to do steel. It's just simple. But gosh damn a whole tire carrier out of it would be freaking heavy. And I bet paying someone to make me an aluminum one would be freaking expensive too.

 

[Chris]

This is one of those threads where @mrblaine or @Jerry Bransford will be able to help a lot. I have a feeling Blaine knows a lot about metals and what works best.

 

[dylansalrin]

Think of it this way. The most experienced wheelers on here (and other forums) all have aluminum guards, bumpers, and skids... that should tell you something hah


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[mrblaine]

Didn't find a thread on this on the forum with the search function - I tried - so making a thread instead.

I want to build my own rear bumper / tire carrier: the first thing that comes to mind is "what should it be made of?" I personally prefer steel. But, in the age of expensive gas and everything lighter = better, what are ya'll's thoughts?

Quality steel is much stronger than aluminum; aluminum is 60% lighter than steel; steel won't gouge if you hit something; aluminum will never rust. Etc. etc.

Depends a bunch on your perspective. Yes steel higher tensile and yield properties, but the high strength aluminum alloys have a unique characteristic in that the spread between yield and ultimate tensile is much closer together than the same properties in steel. That means that you will get a lot more resistance to bending or deformation when subjected to the same loads. Another way to look at it is since aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel, you can double the thickness in critical areas and wind up with something that is stronger than steel and still weighs less since the high strength alloys aren't 1/3 the strength.

It is a very common misconception that steel gouges less than aluminum.

Here is my belly skid that I put on my rig at least 10 years ago and then proceeded to drag over every rock I could find in JV. Of particular importance I'd like you to pay attention to the length of the scratches since gouging was brought up and that is typically done because folks try to say aluminum gouges and will impede forward progress.

Here are some pictures of what the same rocks do to steel.

So, you'd have to be pretty stubborn to say that steel doesn't gouge after seeing that and the damage to both materials is fairly similar.

Cost really isn't an issue, I just don't know if switching over to the dark side (aluminum) really is worth the weight savings?

It is worth the weight savings if you put the whole rig on a diet. It doesn't make a lot of sense to load it down and then try to lighten it up with one aluminum piece.

As for the cost, I wouldn't build a swing out from aluminum and didn't when I designed the Savvy TJ products. The cost to do it correctly is too high and the end result gets you a swing out tire carrier which I don't agree with as a product.

 

[mrblaine]

If you are planning on building it yourself, do you have the equipment to weld aluminum? If you're welding 6061 T6, the areas that have been welded will loose about 80% of their T6 strength, and will need to be re-heat treated to bring it back up to T4 or T6.

7075 T6 is about equal in strength to steel. It's not as easy to machine or work with as 6061 though, and it's also more expensive. You also won't want to weld it. It'll loose its temper, and if you re-temper it, the welds will probably crack.

And while aluminum can't rust, it can corrode. A lot of people don't believe they could have problems, but I've seen enough aircraft components that were badly corroded to know better. Chances are you'd be fine though.

All of this and then some. As for the rust thing. Rust is the corrosion of iron and it's derivatives. Aluminum Oxide is the corrosion of AL and forms very quickly and is a fairly protective coating that slows down the deeper corrosion until you get it in an environment that is more that it can take and then you get the heavy corrosion that eats the material away.

Folks really need to pay attention to your comments about heat treating.

 

[lovemachine]

Depends a bunch on your perspective. Yes steel higher tensile and yield properties, but the high strength aluminum alloys have a unique characteristic in that the spread between yield and ultimate tensile is much closer together than the same properties in steel. That means that you will get a lot more resistance to bending or deformation when subjected to the same loads. Another way to look at it is since aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel, you can double the thickness in critical areas and wind up with something that is stronger than steel and still weighs less since the high strength alloys aren't 1/3 the strength.

It is a very common misconception that steel gouges less than aluminum.

Here is my belly skid that I put on my rig at least 10 years ago and then proceeded to drag over every rock I could find in JV. Of particular importance I'd like you to pay attention to the length of the scratches since gouging was brought up and that is typically done because folks try to say aluminum gouges and will impede forward progress.

Here are some pictures of what the same rocks do to steel.

So, you'd have to be pretty stubborn to say that steel doesn't gouge after seeing that and the damage to both materials is fairly similar.



It is worth the weight savings if you put the whole rig on a diet. It doesn't make a lot of sense to load it down and then try to lighten it up with one aluminum piece.

As for the cost, I wouldn't build a swing out from aluminum and didn't when I designed the Savvy TJ products. The cost to do it correctly is too high and the end result gets you a swing out tire carrier which I don't agree with as a product.

I'm trying to understand your comment about swing out tire carriers. I'm guessing that you're not a fan?

 

[mrblaine]

I'm trying to understand your comment about swing out tire carriers. I'm guessing that you're not a fan?

Personal preference. There is nothing about them I like.

 

[lovemachine]

Personal preference. There is nothing about them I like.

May I ask why that is? I'm curious, especially since I have one, a Rock Hard 4x4. And the only reason why I have it is because it was a gift.

It wouldn't take much for me to swap it out for something else, so I look forward to your reasoning

 

[mrblaine]

May I ask why that is? I'm curious, especially since I have one, a Rock Hard 4x4. And the only reason why I have it is because it was a gift.

It wouldn't take much for me to swap it out for something else, so I look forward to your reasoning

I build lots of suspension, and do lots of suspension work. Any excess weight you add behind the spring perches upsets the balance of the rig and hampers performance and agility. That and the heavy tire is up higher than needed and it and the weight of the swing add to the top heaviness of a rig.

It is always a struggle for us to get a rig dialed in that has one of the swing tire carriers with the heavy bumper mounted up especially if they also insist on running a hard top.

Those are my reasons for my needs, if you don't have the same needs, you likely won't have the same logic.

 

[lovemachine]

I build lots of suspension, and do lots of suspension work. Any excess weight you add behind the spring perches upsets the balance of the rig and hampers performance and agility. That and the heavy tire is up higher than needed and it and the weight of the swing add to the top heaviness of a rig.

It is always a struggle for us to get a rig dialed in that has one of the swing tire carriers with the heavy bumper mounted up especially if they also insist on running a hard top.

Those are my reasons for my needs, if you don't have the same needs, you likely won't have the same logic.

Thank you. That makes sense, and I appreciate the info.

 

[Kyle_W]

Depends a bunch on your perspective. Yes steel higher tensile and yield properties, but the high strength aluminum alloys have a unique characteristic in that the spread between yield and ultimate tensile is much closer together than the same properties in steel. That means that you will get a lot more resistance to bending or deformation when subjected to the same loads. Another way to look at it is since aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel, you can double the thickness in critical areas and wind up with something that is stronger than steel and still weighs less since the high strength alloys aren't 1/3 the strength.

It is a very common misconception that steel gouges less than aluminum.

Here is my belly skid that I put on my rig at least 10 years ago and then proceeded to drag over every rock I could find in JV. Of particular importance I'd like you to pay attention to the length of the scratches since gouging was brought up and that is typically done because folks try to say aluminum gouges and will impede forward progress.

Here are some pictures of what the same rocks do to steel.

So, you'd have to be pretty stubborn to say that steel doesn't gouge after seeing that and the damage to both materials is fairly similar.



It is worth the weight savings if you put the whole rig on a diet. It doesn't make a lot of sense to load it down and then try to lighten it up with one aluminum piece.

As for the cost, I wouldn't build a swing out from aluminum and didn't when I designed the Savvy TJ products. The cost to do it correctly is too high and the end result gets you a swing out tire carrier which I don't agree with as a product.

Thank you very very much - very informative.

However, with how much harder welding aluminum is over steel - is it practical for a greenhorn like me to try it out?

 

[mrblaine]

Thank you very very much - very informative.

However, with how much harder welding aluminum is over steel - is it practical for a greenhorn like me to try it out?

If you have to ask, then you probably know the answer. Aluminum welding for structural matters is not for a beginner welder or fabricator. But, I've been surprised before.

 

[Kyle_W]

Changed my mind - I actually am going to stick with a stock bumper setup - but retain my winch. In which case, I would like an aluminum winch plate.

I read that getting a 4x8" C-channel or an large enough angle piece is a good starting template - however, all of the ones that I found online are freaking expensive. $70 for 2x4" aluminum angle? And a similar price for c-channel?

Is there something that i'm missing?

Or, it may be easier to just get two small sheets of 1/4" aluminum, and then weld them together to create the 4x8" angle that I need? (then drill holes for fairlead, and cut out the section for the cable)

 

[JP98]

Changed my mind - I actually am going to stick with a stock bumper setup - but retain my winch. In which case, I would like an aluminum winch plate.

I read that getting a 4x8" C-channel or an large enough angle piece is a good starting template - however, all of the ones that I found online are freaking expensive. $70 for 2x4" aluminum angle? And a similar price for c-channel?

Is there something that i'm missing?

Or, it may be easier to just get two small sheets of 1/4" aluminum, and then weld them together to create the 4x8" angle that I need? (then drill holes for fairlead, and cut out the section for the cable)

If you have to ask, then you probably know the answer. Aluminum welding for structural matters is not for a beginner welder or fabricator. But, I've been surprised before.

@Nashorn101 you may want to reread what blaine said. Welding aluminum for structural matters is not for beginners. You can make a dangerous situation even more dangerous by having bad welds holding your winch.