TJ de-computerization help

jjvw said:
A while back, wise moderator from a another place once said the 4bt is both the most talked about and the least done TJ modification. A carbureted TJ may be a close second.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, it is more common than a JL steering gear fit up. I'm starting to be convinced that gear swap is about the same as the NV4500 swap. Great, let's just rework most of the rig around a transmission because it has a low first gear. The good news is at least they don't weigh much more than the 4 liter.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Rickyd and jjvw
I find it amusing how quickly these “carburetor on my TJ” discussions devolve into doomsday prepper silliness. Ok, so you somehow make your TJ EMP-proof and an EMP strike happens. What now? You drive ~200 miles and run out of gas with nowhere to refuel? Or let me guess, you also have a massive fuel reserve next to your backyard underground nuclear bunker? 🙄
 
  • Like
Reactions: 707kevin, BitterrootMTLJ, BlueC and 1 other person
Tob said:
I find it amusing how quickly these “carburetor on my TJ” discussions devolve into doomsday prepper silliness. Ok, so you somehow make your TJ EMP-proof and an EMP strike happens. What now? You drive ~200 miles and run out of gas with nowhere to refuel? Or let me guess, you also have a massive fuel reserve next to your backyard underground nuclear bunker? 🙄
Click to expand...

All true, but if you’re one of a very few people with a car, imagine the number of bullets that would be flying at you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Claybirdd, BitterrootMTLJ and BlueC
Rickyd said:
Just found this adapter a guy made. Much cheaper than the 700$ for a 4 barrel conversion intake
View attachment 523344
Click to expand...

This is the cheapest way, and it can work well. But MPFI manifolds aren't designed to keep the fuel in suspension and SOMETIMES has issues.

If I was doing it and didn't want to pay for the performance of the clifford manifold I'd get a stock 4.2 intake instead.

This thread blew up fast, and it seems mostly side-discussion about WHY instead of HOW. The how is pretty easy, you just need a non-FI distributer, intake and carb if you want to keep the 4.0.

Or find a fresh 4.2 and bolt that in.

If you want a different transmission I'd be inclined to go v8. Tons of options just pick your poison. I kinda want a hot rod jeep, t-bucket style, for ripping around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: burtpenguinnn, BlueC, hear and 1 other person
srimes said:
This is the cheapest way, and it can work well. But MPFI manifolds aren't designed to keep the fuel in suspension and SOMETIMES has issues.

If I was doing it and didn't want to pay for the performance of the clifford manifold I'd get a stock 4.2 intake instead.

This thread blew up fast, and it seems mostly side-discussion about WHY instead of HOW. The how is pretty easy, you just need a non-FI distributer, intake and carb if you want to keep the 4.0.

Or find a fresh 4.2 and bolt that in.

If you want a different transmission I'd be inclined to go v8. Tons of options just pick your poison. I kinda want a hot rod jeep, t-bucket style, for ripping around.
Click to expand...

I thought about suggesting a 4.2l manifold.but then you get into port and dowel location. Not insurmountable but could possibly mean aluminum welding
 
  • Like
Reactions: srimes
Tob said:
I find it amusing how quickly these “carburetor on my TJ” discussions devolve into doomsday prepper silliness. Ok, so you somehow make your TJ EMP-proof and an EMP strike happens. What now? You drive ~200 miles and run out of gas with nowhere to refuel? Or let me guess, you also have a massive fuel reserve next to your backyard underground nuclear bunker? 🙄
Click to expand...

yeah the EMP discussion is fruitless because like another person on this thread said things like surge protectors or faraday cages and stuff are much better than removing electronics, even things like batteries would be effected and you need those things for your car to run unless its a pre ww1 horseless carriage.

I simply just dont like computers running my car. I want to run the car.
its a lost art and a lost freedom, everyone wants everything to be so easy and automated and soulless. On smaller things its fine, and it can be a great convenience, but on the big things that we interact with everyday on a huge scale that are a huge part of our lives it destroys the choice of ours to control and run our own machines exactly how we need, and use our own stuff the way we want to. same principle with modern built houses that aren't the top 1% of homes designed by architects who know how to make a building an art piece or something simple and nice. all of the construction is shit and has no beauty.

im saying this knowing that no one here is going to understand it, but im saying it nonetheless because its the best analogies and probably the most useful way I could try to get at least 1 person to understand what im saying.
 
srimes said:
This is the cheapest way, and it can work well. But MPFI manifolds aren't designed to keep the fuel in suspension and SOMETIMES has issues.

If I was doing it and didn't want to pay for the performance of the clifford manifold I'd get a stock 4.2 intake instead.

This thread blew up fast, and it seems mostly side-discussion about WHY instead of HOW. The how is pretty easy, you just need a non-FI distributer, intake and carb if you want to keep the 4.0.

Or find a fresh 4.2 and bolt that in.

If you want a different transmission I'd be inclined to go v8. Tons of options just pick your poison. I kinda want a hot rod jeep, t-bucket style, for ripping around.
Click to expand...
V8 in a CJ5 or CJ7 is my plan since the mods id be doing to the TJ would essentially CJ-ifying it. (I had this idea before Jscherb made it cool, and did a lot of hard work to make a CJ-TJ hybrid better than I ever could lol) things like a sport roll bar, flat steel bumpers, downward folding tailgate, and a bunch of other stuff that comes standard on CJs. I found a fair priced CJ5 with a 350 swapped into it and a muncie m20 4 speed transmission. its bright orange too which is awesome.
 
burtpenguinnn said:
I simply just dont like computers running my car. I want to run the car.
Click to expand...
This is just like all the manual transmission monkeys saying they prefer the manual because they want to control the vehicle. They are just as infatuated with a myth as you are. You are not running the car, you simply driving it after all the things you have no actual control over are doing their job.

If you really wanted to get closer to running the car, you have to go way back to when you had to adjust the spark control on the dash with a cable for adjusting the air/fuel mix on the carb.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Artsifrtsi, Superjay5, Bootheel Boy and 3 others
burtpenguinnn said:
I simply just dont like computers running my car. I want to run the car.
its a lost art and a lost freedom, everyone wants everything to be so easy and automated and soulless.
Click to expand...

Like everything else in life, there is a tradeoff, but it would be asinine to "de-computer" a functional, road going TJ, or any other modern vehicle.

Like I've suggested here already, go get an old mechanical vehicle as a secondary vehicle/toy, and keep a newer one for daily duties. With a little time, you will start to understand the trade-offs, like simply being able to jump in, start and instantly go. An old mechanical vehicle will not be doing that.
 
hear said:
You may want to subscribe to @Zorba 's newsletter.
Click to expand...

im not against computers, like I said, I like playing games like BeamNG and The Long Drive, Forza, Assetto Corsa, and the like. I built my own pc and repair my own tech.
I just dont believe the place for computers to be is in cars or things like self checkout or things like your fridge. each of these things have a sole purpose, certain cars, especially utilitarian cars like trucks and SUVs should be utilitarian cars with no frills and they should serve their purpose and only serve their purpose. you dont buy a saw and expect the functionality of a hammer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba
AndyA said:
And you don't buy a saw and try to modify it into a hammer. Andy
Click to expand...

id argue its more so trying to reinvent the hammer into a saw just enough that people think its a saw. and then wanting to take all that reinvention away because its unnecessary.

not nearly as poetic though, ill give you that
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba
Mike_H said:
Seriously...it would be better to just buy an old YJ or CJ. Making a TJ run without a computer might be "easy" but making it a road worthy vehicle will not be. You have gauges to figure out, and a manual swap is nothing to scoff at either. I went the other way (manual to auto) and while it wasn't really difficult skill wise, it took a ton of planning and a whole bunch of money to pull it off correctly.

What are you going to do about exhaust...(cats gotta come out). Fuel pump? That pump you have for fuel injection will blow through a needle and seat and flood a carb. Your engine probably doesn't have the necessary mouting bosses for a mechanical pump (or the drive on the crank), so you'll need electric there. How about a speedometer? Cable acutated...which means a different transfer case. This is only about 2 minutes of thought...I'm sure there is more.

Its a terrible idea.
Click to expand...

You can buy an electric motor with cable attachment to drive the Speedo using a speed sensor but that may have a calibration module (computer)
 
hear said:
You may want to subscribe to @Zorba 's newsletter.
Click to expand...

Zorba's newsletter wouldn't do him much good in converting his Jeep - but he might learn a thing or two about Belly Dancing!

But I understand where he's coming from - computers on cars is the answer to a question nobody was asking. Yea - when the damn thing is working correctly, it runs nicely. But this forum is FULL of computer problems caused by needless sensors that were spec-ced too tightly to be easily duplicatable. When I was in tech school, the conversation was all about how "cheap" microprocessors were going to revolutionize the world - and they did. But they lost "cheap" along the way - $1K for a replacement PCM that has, at most, $50 worth of chips in it.

But a couple of points:

1) You do NOT have to have a computer to have fuel injection. FI was accomplished DECADES before computers were put in cars, even before there was a single solid state component to build a computer out of. Now the ease of fitting such a system to the 4.0 I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.

2) Anybody who says you don't have better control with a manual obviously doesn't know how to drive one. WITH THAT SAID, most automatics can give much of the same control if they have a decent gear selection capability and the driver knows how to use it. Unfortunately, many do not - esp. many newer ones. My old MBZ has a 4 speed auto, but only has PRND3L - The lack of control of 1-2 is a sometime pain. My son in law has a Dodge truck with a dial selector - which certainly doesn't encourage manual control, and its PRNDL, yet with something like 6 or 7 speeds. Inadequate. OTOH, I drove a Ford truck a few years back that had, I think, an 8 speed - it allowed manual selection of ANY/ALL gears - it was fabulous. The question of why not just have an 8 speed manual I'll leave as an exercise for the reader. My dad's 78 Chevy had PRND21 - 3 speeds, but all were selectable. My '86 Chevy had PRN(D)D21 - again, all selectable the way it should be. You can do a LOT if you can select/control the gears on an autobox.

3)But my priorities are the same as most people's were in the 1950s and before: Reliability, repairability, economy and drive train is EVERYTHING. Two of my 3 vehicles were selected because their respective engines are legendary for reliability. Of course, today its all about the PHOOOOOONNE!! which is a rant for another time - nobody gives a damn about the engine, transmission, reliability, economy or anything else like that. Look at the vintage ads for Jeep - or just about anything else. Economy and reliability are emphasized. Today, they're not even mentioned. I'd say its sad, but I find it more disgusting than anything else. Hell, even the late 80s (early 90s?) Nissan truck was called a "Hardbody" to emphasize its toughness. Don't see that today!
 
  • Like
Reactions: burtpenguinnn
burtpenguinnn said:
yeah the EMP discussion is fruitless because like another person on this thread said things like surge protectors or faraday cages and stuff are much better than removing electronics, even things like batteries would be effected and you need those things for your car to run unless its a pre ww1 horseless carriage.

I simply just dont like computers running my car. I want to run the car.
its a lost art and a lost freedom, everyone wants everything to be so easy and automated and soulless. On smaller things its fine, and it can be a great convenience, but on the big things that we interact with everyday on a huge scale that are a huge part of our lives it destroys the choice of ours to control and run our own machines exactly how we need, and use our own stuff the way we want to. same principle with modern built houses that aren't the top 1% of homes designed by architects who know how to make a building an art piece or something simple and nice. all of the construction is shit and has no beauty.

im saying this knowing that no one here is going to understand it, but im saying it nonetheless because its the best analogies and probably the most useful way I could try to get at least 1 person to understand what im saying.
Click to expand...

On a more serious note, have you considered messing with a tuner on your existing PCM? You have a lot more options to control things than you might think. You can change or disable different control strategies, tune it for more power and/or longer range, and realistically you have way better control over it than you would a carburetor or distributor.

Might not be the de-computerization that you are looking for, but it certainly will give you the sense that you are in control. Granted, you could easily destroy your engine by messing things up, but as long as you understand the fundamentals of fuel/air, spark advance/timing, and basic mechanics of engines, it will be very easy to learn. Any person who has messed with a distributor knows it’s probably not a good idea to demand 50 degrees of spark advance at idle even if they haven’t touched a tuner before.

These PCMs really aren’t much more complex than an Arduino in terms of computing. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average hobbyist 3D printer has a more powerful computer than these cars do.
 
Top Bottom
Back